hoverfrog Posted March 7, 2009 Share Posted March 7, 2009 So I bought my house 4 years ago...2 years ago I also bought a small stone-built house in the country with a friend, to renovate...Since then, Oh! have I learnt a lot!Recently I decided to shift camp - to be precise, I want to sell my 3 houses and settle in one new one. (Three, I hear you say? Yes, well, I bought my house complete with another one at the end of the drive. See point #3)1/ in France, guzumping is illegal - if you put in an offer for a house (however derisory), then no-one else can offer for it until you've finished negotiating.2/ if you offer the asking price they cannot legally refuse to sell to you. However - see 1# above.3/ Just because your house comes with another one doesn't mean you can sell the surplus one off at a later date, even if they say that you can at the time of purchase. it will probably cost more to delineate the land than you will get for it - even if it's treated seperately for taxe foncière (so what are they charging me for then - in terms of area???).4/ everything is negotiable - even agency fees! Now this one hurt when I found out :( According to the agency, fees are done on a percentage. When I bought this place I was told that their fees were on a percentage of the purchase price - tant pis - I had to pay. Today I queried what they put as their fees for selling my 'small stone-built place in the middle-of-nowhere' purchase - which were more than I paid in fees for my main house. "Don't worry!" she said - "it's all negotiable!". Yeah right! How many people know that?5/ the reason houses are advertised with different agencies at different prices is because of #4 - and they all have a different starting rate for negotiations (see #4). I haven't advertised my 'small stone-built place in the middle-of-nowhere' with more than 2 agencies yet but when they advertise it at 40+ or 38 that makes one hell off a difference to buyers.6/ moving on from #4 and #5 - the sellers will get the same price from both agencies. The service might not be the same, but if they/you want it and are prepared to push then it will happen - the price is as advertised.7/ if you can argue coherently in French that you don't need a translator then you don't need one. If you have to do this from the notaire's office during a sale, for some poor guy's services that you hadn't asked for, then you get extra quodos :)Just because the client is English doesn't mean they don't speak French :)8/ he who orders the translator pays him (see #7)9/ is laminate flooring really that bad? Not all floorboards are salvageable, pretty, bleachable... - and laminate flooring is so quick to fit, insulates, so easy to clean, - why did I let all the "floorboards or nothing" people mislead me all these years!Just my thoughts - having been around a while I see the same questions coming up, and it might help someone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baypond Posted March 8, 2009 Share Posted March 8, 2009 [quote user="hoverfrog"]2/ if you offer the asking price they cannot legally refuse to sell to you. However - see 1# above. .[/quote]Not strictly true as we found out during our house purchase. What you are refering to is the mandat between vendor and immobiliere. If a full asking price is made, then the vendor is legally bound to accept within the terms of the mandat, or face having to pay the agents commission in full. As far as I know there is no compensation for the prospective vendor. In our case the immobiliere was reticent to apply the conditions of the mandat because it would have taken something like 2 years via the courts to get a conclusion, so in then end the agent agreed to lower commission charges to get the sale to proceed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 "1/ in France, guzumping is illegal - if you put in an offer for a house (however derisory), then no-one else can offer for it until you've finished negotiating."I don't understand quite what you mean here (or indeed in most of your post!). It is not at all the case that making an offer, below that of the advertised price, blocks the sale for anyone else. Sure, if you offer the asking price then the owner is obliged to go with you if you offered it before anyone else. With regards to agency fees, yes they are high. But if you choose your agency well then they will work for those fees and hopefully effect a sale quickly, if the property is priced correctly. Agencies don't hide how much their fees are - they have to have them on display. Even if they do negoiciate their fee, this has to be written in the final sale contract as a reduction - they are not, as far as I know, allowed to display the product on sale at a lower price because they are offering a lower fee on a particular property. Before going into an agency you can work out how much their fee would be on the price you want, and that gives you the amount they will advertise it at. It's no big surprise that agencies differ in prices. You could always try advertising your property privately if you have no faith in the agencies.If you buy two properties together, of course you will have to officially get them 'separated' before selling them. Of course this will cost money and be a pain in the neck to do, involving changing the cadastral plans etc. You weren't badly advised - it is possible - but of course the person selling you the properties isn't going to say how time-consuming or expensive it could be, are they? Good luck with your sales, and I hope you find the laminate-floored house of your dreams!Jane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powerdesal Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 A 'purist' was most complimentary about our 'oak' flooring until he was told it was laminate, even then he was doubtful until it was proved.There's nothing wrong with a good laminate, irrespective of what some people think!!!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoverfrog Posted March 10, 2009 Author Share Posted March 10, 2009 [quote user="Jane and Danny"]"1/ in France, guzumping is illegal - if you put in an offer for a house (however derisory), then no-one else can offer for it until you've finished negotiating."I don't understand quite what you mean here (or indeed in most of your post!). It is not at all the case that making an offer, below that of the advertised price, blocks the sale for anyone else. [/quote]legally it is. What happens in practice is not always following the letter of the law (as was pointed out by baypond), however legally when an offer is in then no-one else can offer on the same property.As far as separating my 2 houses goes, I was advised to tell potential buyers exactly as I was told "...of course you can always sell on the little house later if you want to..."I just wanted to make the point that this is not always feasible, just in case someone else ended up in the same position!I have found the house of my dreams, thank-you, although it's all tiled! You will never appreciate how much of an improvement on tired lino laminate flooring can be unless you've been there :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mint Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 I know this is desperately serious for the OP but, Jane, you have made me smile (quite a lot!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mint Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 [quote user="powerdesal"]A 'purist' was most complimentary about our 'oak' flooring until he was told it was laminate, even then he was doubtful until it was proved.There's nothing wrong with a good laminate, irrespective of what some people think!!!!!!!!!!!![/quote]Agreed, Steve, as long as it's laid on a proper and level base. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoverfrog Posted March 10, 2009 Author Share Posted March 10, 2009 [quote user="sweet 17"]I know this is desperately serious for the OP but, Jane, you have made me smile (quite a lot!)[/quote]actually, no, not desperately serious at all! She made me laugh too :)Maybe I should've posted it in "French culture"! :)lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooby Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 [quote user="baypond"][quote user="hoverfrog"]2/ if you offer the asking price they cannot legally refuse to sell to you. However - see 1# above. .[/quote]Not strictly true as we found out during our house purchase. What you are refering to is the mandat between vendor and immobiliere. If a full asking price is made, then the vendor is legally bound to accept within the terms of the mandat, or face having to pay the agents commission in full. As far as I know there is no compensation for the prospective vendor. In our case the immobiliere was reticent to apply the conditions of the mandat because it would have taken something like 2 years via the courts to get a conclusion, so in then end the agent agreed to lower commission charges to get the sale to proceed. [/quote]We offered the asking price and asked for the mandat to be enforced against the vendor - which it was. It is a useful fact to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powerdesal Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 [quote user="sweet 17"][quote user="powerdesal"]A 'purist' was most complimentary about our 'oak' flooring until he was told it was laminate, even then he was doubtful until it was proved.There's nothing wrong with a good laminate, irrespective of what some people think!!!!!!!!!!!![/quote]Agreed, Steve, as long as it's laid on a proper and level base.[/quote]That's a given, would anyone NOT do that? It would be waste of time, effort and money ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mint Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 Oh, Hoverfrog, that's how it is in France. Nothing, but nothing is straightforward.Wish I had the gift of the Gallic shrug but I don't, therefore I often tear my hair out and swear that I am going to leave France as soon as I can.Then, the sun comes out, some French friend rings and invites me to dinner, the girl at the supermarket check-out actually smiles and wishes me "bonne journée" and you make a pact with yourself to give it another go.Arr...........................gh! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mint Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 [quote user="powerdesal"][quote user="sweet 17"][quote user="powerdesal"]A 'purist' was most complimentary about our 'oak' flooring until he was told it was laminate, even then he was doubtful until it was proved.There's nothing wrong with a good laminate, irrespective of what some people think!!!!!!!!!!!![/quote]Agreed, Steve, as long as it's laid on a proper and level base.[/quote]That's a given, would anyone NOT do that? It would be waste of time, effort and money ![/quote]So, there's lots of people out there wasting time, effort and money, non?[;-)] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooby Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 [quote user="powerdesal"]There's nothing wrong with a good laminate, irrespective of what some people think!!!!!!!!!!!![/quote]Beg to disagree with you there! As an aside what is it with the french and lino! We want to either strip and varnish the floor boards or carpet the bathroom (no toilet in there so no hygiene issues). Our neighbours were horrified and have been on a mission to convert us to lino!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powerdesal Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 [quote user="Scooby"][quote user="powerdesal"]There's nothing wrong with a good laminate, irrespective of what some people think!!!!!!!!!!!![/quote]Beg to disagree with you there! As an aside what is it with the french and lino! We want to either strip and varnish the floor boards or carpet the bathroom (no toilet in there so no hygiene issues). Our neighbours were horrified and have been on a mission to convert us to lino!![/quote]That presumes that your floorboards are in a suitable condition to strip and varnish, many aren't although still sound structurally. If they are not, what then? If carpet is your thing, all well and good, but some people (like us) don't like carpeted bathrooms (or bedrooms for that matter).Personally, I can live without (fitted) carpets, I prefer rugs on a (laminated if necessary) floor. Each to his own.Sweet,Obviously some people don't have the necessary standards when re-doing flooring!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mint Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 Yes, I do think that, on balance, I'd rather have laminate that is laid correctly on a properly prepared surface than substandard floor boards with nails sticking out of the boards, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooby Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 [quote user="powerdesal"][quote user="Scooby"][quote user="powerdesal"]There's nothing wrong with a good laminate, irrespective of what some people think!!!!!!!!!!!![/quote]Beg to disagree with you there! As an aside what is it with the french and lino! We want to either strip and varnish the floor boards or carpet the bathroom (no toilet in there so no hygiene issues). Our neighbours were horrified and have been on a mission to convert us to lino!![/quote]That presumes that your floorboards are in a suitable condition to strip and varnish, many aren't although still sound structurally. If they are not, what then? If carpet is your thing, all well and good, but some people (like us) don't like carpeted bathrooms (or bedrooms for that matter).[/quote]They are - but I like the luxury of stepping out of the bath on to thick carpet. Intra-marital dispute LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powerdesal Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 Bath ????? what is this ''bath'' thing of which you speak? Is that the old fashioned tub of water which people used to wallow in until it became dirty with their washings ?Modern society has moved on to a ''Shower'' where the dirty washings are discharged down the drain and a clean, rinsed body emerges suitably refreshed.ps. It uses less valuable and expensive water also [:D] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clair Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 [quote user="powerdesal"]Bath ????? what is this ''bath'' thing of which you speak? Is that the old fashioned tub of water which people used to wallow in until it became dirty with their washings ?[/quote]Well said PDS! I have been saying the same thing for years!bath = yuk yuk yuk!Imagine splashing your face with water your bum has been stewing in... [+o(] [+o(] [+o(] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powerdesal Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 I think it must be about 15 years since I last had a bath (smelly....moi?)The first thing we did to our French house was remove the bath and relocate it to the dechetterie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clair Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 I haven't had a bath for about 20 years... but then again, I am French and we don't wash...[:P] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baypond Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 Nah you all have the wrong idea..... a bath isn't for washing in, it's for relaxing in, or to soothe aching limbs, or warm the body to the core after coming in from a wet and cold day. It's also a great place to talk to your partner too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mint Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 And for reading in, although you do have to be careful not to get your book wet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubbles Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 "tearing my hair out"thought the hair was staying in these days, sweet 17.and, when is your birthday again?i'm good at remembering dates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooby Posted March 11, 2009 Share Posted March 11, 2009 [quote user="baypond"]Nah you all have the wrong idea..... a bath isn't for washing in, it's for relaxing in, or to soothe aching limbs, or warm the body to the core after coming in from a wet and cold day. [/quote]Exactly, nice scented oils / bubbles, candles, glass of bubbly, box of choccies and a good book - heaven! We do have a big walk in shower too - for functional washing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mint Posted March 11, 2009 Share Posted March 11, 2009 [quote user="bubbles"]"tearing my hair out" thought the hair was staying in these days, sweet 17. and, when is your birthday again? i'm good at remembering dates.[/quote]At least, Bubbles, I still have lots of hair left to tear out!Birthday? What, that 8-letter word? Nah, don't do birthdays anymore now the countdown's begun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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