Income tax registration obligation with E121's pensioners?

[Ron Avery]

Oh bigears, I thought that you wanted someone to play with you after that nasty cat told you to go away and multiply[:D] I'll just take my ball and see if mrs wobbly banana wants to play then eh[:P]

[gosub]

[quote user="5-element"]There is a remarkably high number of French car drivers who may have the correct number plate, but without insurance, or driving licence. Or with a fake driving licence. Maybe someone can find out the figures, but it is staggering. The French abusing their own systems. are you kidding? It is a national sport.[/quote]

Some info HERE

[Ron Avery]

[quote user="5-element"]

OK - it seems the estimated figure of French people who drive without a licence are around the 300,000 mark.

http://www.autodeclics.com/blog/blog.php?id=1354

As for the ones without insurance, I haven't researched it yet.

[/quote]

Although the headline states that 300,000 drivers had no licenses in France, doesn't the detail say that only 80 000 who were checked had no license?.  It says that 220000 others lost their licenses due to ponts being gained which surely is not the same thing as having been stopped and found not to have a valid license. Or .............

Not understanding what happens if you lose all 12 points, does it mean that 220,000 people drove on after losing  their 12 points and were caught?

 

EDIT looking at Les's link it would appear that only 80,0000 were actually caught without a valid license, not very good but a lot less than 300,000!

[Benjamin]

[quote user="Patf"]

From now on though things should be different if you have to register with your Maire when you arrive.

[/quote]

I'm on shaky ground here, but don't the UK Government produce a raft of information booklets in various languages to reflect the mother tongue of the larger immigrant groups?

If the French Government were to consider this (do they already do this for Arabic speakers?) and make them available at the Mairies for distribution when people register, then this would go a long way to avoiding people "dodging" simply because they don't understand the rules and their obligation to comply with them.

Personally I don't know a lot of Brits here but I do know quite a few of them who are, I guess, sailing close to the wind, and yes, they do know about fora such as this one.

[5-element]

Good to have the Ministere de l'Intérieur statistics; those are, of course,  for the number of people actually caught and fined.

The 300,000 figure for people who drive "sans permis" is of course, estimated. As I so  flippantly mentioned,  the national sport is doing something illegal without getting caught.

I have no idea how the estimates are arrived at, although the 2 links I provide might tell you that.

 

But I don't think it is only about drivers who lost their licence. Some drivers have never had a licence in the first place. There are a number of news stories about a driver who is found to have been driving without a licence for 40 years or so, as he never passed his test.  But these stories are merely anecdotal and probably don't influence statistics so much. But there is also a buoyant market (again, I might be asked to quote figures which I do not have at my fingertips) in fake driving licence cards. On close investigation (if the driver is caught), then that is another driving licence fraud.

 

EDIT: A very interesting FR.1 newsclip about the increase in "FAUX PERMIS DE CONDUIRE" - it is now slightly out of date (October 2006) but probably not much.

http://tf1.lci.fr/infos/media/economie/0,,3339026,00-trafic-faux-permis-conduire-augmentation-.html

[AnOther]

Good point Benjamin and you might say that it would be much simpler and cheaper for the French to do this as essentially they'd only have to produce them in one foreign language, i.e. English [Www]

 

[allanb]

[quote user="5-element"]I know 'cos I have seen French TV programmes about this, read articles in French mags and papers, including police reports.[/quote]Fair enough.  I read your link, and I agree that 93,000 is a lot.

Still, it would be interesting to know what proportion that represents of all drivers who were asked to produce a licence during the year.  Some of these statistics turn out to be less sensational when they are related to a total.

[Will]

I think you may find that the Loi Toubon effectively prohibits French official documents being produced in any language other than French.

[Benjamin]

[quote user="Will"]I think you may find that the Loi Toubon effectively prohibits French official documents being produced in any language other than French.[/quote]

Sounds like the sort of law that you'd find in Mugabe's Zimwabebe.  [6]

I take it you're just pointing this out as infomation Will? My idea wouldn't neccesitate a full translation of the law, simply a guide to the responsibilities that people have when living in France.

[Panda]

[quote user="Sunday Driver"]

I suspect the chickens will be coming home earlier than that....

A decree was passed in April 2008 creating a national delegation charged with combatting fraud against the state.  The decree also provides for the setting up of departmental investigative bodies under the direction of the prefect.

The new mairie registration procedure requires all new foreign residents to be reported to the prefectures, so it will be difficult for future immigrants to avoid making a tax declaration. 

Furthermore, among the state functions committed to the exchange of information are the departement of social security and the impots.  Tax information is already shared between the impots and CAF and the assurance maladie (CNAM) is set to follow suit.  Everyone currently registered for state healthcare insurance is done so on the basis of residence (whether under an E106/E121 or otherwise) therefore they should have a corresponding exisiting tax reference.  It's not really rocket science to match up the two and spot the tax dodgers.....

[/quote]

The issue with all this is that those I know who are doing this, really do not register anywhere, no tax return, no health cover, British plates, no paper trail that they are here at all.....  In this area (southern Charente) there are literally hundreds of second home owners so these tax dodgers can hide amongst them forever. If asked they will always say they are holiday makers (so will not register with the   mairie) and who will bother to challenge them if they are making no claims on the state, I know my mayor wouldn't bother there is no incentive for them to do so?

[woolybananasbrother]

perhaps this might be of interest to

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/2511037/Travel-records-of-one-million-people-every-month-accessed-by-the-Government.html