"Request" to register for french tax

[Ian]

I've just received a (standard) letter from the "Directeur Generale des Impots".

My french isn't very good but I think it's saying something along the lines of

"....We have not received your tax return for 2007, due by 30/05/2008. This is a legal requirement. Even if you are not liable to pay tax (?), it is in your interests to complete this, as it is proof of your status, which may help you.

If you have not completed this return, and wish to avoid being penalised, please complete and return the form you should have received.. Or get another one from us......etc etc"

I still have a house in the UK and have bank statements etc sent to my UK address, but as of this year, I feel I am a french resident - registered with CPAM in April, etc. - so will happily (?) fill this year's tax return, next spring. As far as 2007 is concerned though, I was a UK resident (at least, I think

so). We bought the french house in September 2007, but the first few

months here were really a working holiday, spent making the house

habitable. I was still paying UK tax,  returning every so often to the

UK.

Can I persuade them I was a UK resident for 2007, and if so, will this remove the need to fill in the tax return as they ask?

TIA

[giantpanda]

Hi!

Here are the 3 conditions ( each can be taken separately) under which you can become a French fiscal resident ( which is different from having your main residence here ( I hope you can read this  link).

http://droit-finances.commentcamarche.net/contents/impot-revenu/imp10-impot-sur-le-revenu-notion-de-residence-fiscale.php3

Now important could be :

1. How long have you been living there this year?

2. If you have children, do they go to school?

3. Have you registered for a Carte Vitale?

If you stayed there, there is a presumption that it is your residence principale.

According to the case, depending on the above answers, it may be best for you to do a 2007 declaration ( you would only have to declare from September till end of year 2007 ) and would not have any income tax impact, under you had quite some interests or dividends in that period.).

Yours,

giantpanda

PS. You should know there is a Tax paragraph ( usually very seldom used in the past, whereby a "non resident  fiscal "can be taxed on 3 months of the " valeur locative " of his French houses.

In over 12 years of handling tax matter, I have only known one case, where the people were really wealthy, had used lawyer to avoid being taxed in France. You could say they used this paragraph is a last resort (in the past - has the matter changed??) for the Tax Office, and here there is nothing you can do about it.

[woolybanana]

Just a warning. If you have had monthly interest or other payments throughout the tax tear you should indicate and "prove" their monthly status as the French taxman only recognizes annual payments at the end of December and you would then have to pay on the whole 12 months payments rather than from Sept to Dec. Your bank statements showing the payments plus their source a/c (if they are transferreed) should prove this. If you dont want the taxman to see other details of your bank statements, then it is OK to black them out.

[Sunday Driver]

Just a quick point of procedure....[;-)]

When completing a tax declaration, all that is required is to enter the income received during the tax year (in this case from September to December) on the appropriate form(s), sign them, and send them off.  It is not necessary to indicate and 'prove' monthly status of UK bank interest, just retain the bank statements in case of a subsequent tax audit.

 

[Ian]

Thanks, everyone, for the info, but it's not the answer I was hoping for. I'm trying to avoid having to fill in a french tax return till next spring, out of laziness. If I have to do it now, I will, but I'd rather not.

So, please let me re-phrase the question:

(A) Is this request to complete a tax return mandatory (Thatcher's TINA), or can I argue that as I was not resident in 2007, it does not apply to me?

(B) If non-resident status is a get-out, will the authorities accept I wasn't resident, given I did nothing "residential" (registering car, applying for CarteVitale, etc) till this year?

Again, thanks

[Panda]

I presume you have a UK return for the period in question, in which case could you not use this to prove you were UK tax resident?  If you don't then ...

[Sunday Driver]

[quote user="Ian"]Thanks, everyone, for the info, but it's not the answer I was hoping for. I'm trying to avoid having to fill in a french tax return till next spring, out of laziness. If I have to do it now, I will, but I'd rather not.

So, please let me re-phrase the question:

(A) Is this request to complete a tax return mandatory (Thatcher's TINA), or can I argue that as I was not resident in 2007, it does not apply to me?
(B) If non-resident status is a get-out, will the authorities accept I wasn't resident, given I did nothing "residential" (registering car, applying for CarteVitale, etc) till this year?

Again, thanks
[/quote]

The authorities might well argue that under the immigration regulations, having lived in the house for three months, you became resident here - and that you should have actually gone on to do the 'residential' things like registering car, applying for carte vitale, etc.....[;-)]

Unless you can provide proof that you hadn't been living here all the time during that period (eg, regular ferry bookings to and from to the UK) then you may have difficulty in avoiding being classed as tax resident during 2007.

However, bear in mind if you do declare here, you'll probably pay no tax on your three months earnings and you can get your UK tax refunded.  And, having missed the boat for avoiding having to obtain expensive private health insurance until you've been here five years, you need all the accumulated residency you can get.....

 

[Ian]

[quote user="Sunday Driver"]

The authorities might well argue that under the immigration regulations, having lived in the house for three months, you became resident here - and that you should have actually gone on to do the 'residential' things like registering car, applying for carte vitale, etc.....[;-)]

Unless you can provide proof that you hadn't been living here all the time during that period (eg, regular ferry bookings to and from to the UK) then you may have difficulty in avoiding being classed as tax resident during 2007.

However, bear in mind if you do declare here, you'll probably pay no tax on your three months earnings and you can get your UK tax refunded.  And, having missed the boat for avoiding having to obtain expensive private health insurance until you've been here five years, you need all the accumulated residency you can get.....

[/quote]

Well, since I can't show regular ferry trips back to Blighty, and it might be financially advantageous to change tax regimes, and I have to do it sooner or later, I might as well do it now. At least they've given me 30 days to get the form back to them

(I don't think the need for accumulated residency applies - my wife is retired, so I currently qualify as her dependent. As long as that doesn't change.....But, thanks for highlighting that aspect.)

I seem to remember much advice on here, back in springtime, on how to fill the forms in. I'd better start searching...

Thanks, all.

[mint]

Look at the FAQs Finance Section.

[AnOther]

I wonder what triggered this communication, could it be that the Impots are actually starting to be proactive [blink]

Incidentally I notice that in your original post you said:

[quote user="Ian"]"but the first few

months here were really a working holiday, spent making the house

habitable. I was still paying UK tax,  returning every so often to the

UK.[/quote]but you also say:

[quote user="Ian"]Well, since I can't show regular ferry trips back to Blighty,[/quote]Did you swim then [:D]

[Quillan]

I suspect that he threw the receipts and/or tickets away. May be possible to prove via a credit card/debit card statement depending on how he bought the ticket.

Many Brits, including myself, used to throw till, credit card and other recipients away in the UK, a habit one transfers to France until you have to claim off an insurance policy and they demand a copy of the purchase receipt for the goods/services you are claiming

I therefore thought it a good opportunity to remind people in France to keep all receipts and when buying expensive stuff, even from the supermarkets, to ask for a proper receipt on top of the till receipt. Personally I have a big box and simply throw them all in it.

[Llantony]

'Did you swim then?'

I thought the OP couldn't produce evidence of trips to UK because he hadn't made them.  He said he'd been in France for several months but thought of it as a working holiday.