Am I putting things in the right place, please? UPDATE and a further question - Sorry!

[Judith]

OK, after a night's reflection, I changed my mind about what I was going to do as per my previous msg re gross / net, but decided I was still confused once I tried to put the amounts into boxes.  I've sorted out gross / net (if it had not been for the Nationwide bank interest (we left some of the

monies from our flat sale in the UK, foolishly as it turned out!!), the

difference between the net and gross figures I received last year would

have been about £80!), and I am hoping to claim that back, eventually, so I am now trying to work out where it all goes (last year only 2 months income, and not worth worrying about) so this is the first "real year". 

So can someone pl answer these questions?

1) If I quote gross figures for UK income (all but state pension received there, and very little c£1000 transferred last year), presumably I do not need to account for the small amounts I transferred across at the latter end of the year?  ie I can ignore them?

2) Personal pensions (as usual through annuity) and occupational pensions - goes into box 1 on 2047 and then into box 1 on 2042 (blue)

3) Civil service and local authority pensions - box VII on 2047 -  and then where on blue?

4) state pension is received gross in euros into Fr bank account - where does this go on blue?

5) UK bank interest (not dividend interest, only cash sums) (tax taken at source, as per Nationwide but I presume I put in gross interest recei ved), goes in 2047 - IV but which bit , and where on the blue?

6) 2047 - Section VIII is where I put the statement about the E121 etc.

I have the forms for the French bank interest, which I assume I just copy across to EE and TR?

Thanks.  I'm determined to crack it this year!.

[parsnips]

[quote user="Judith"]OK, after a night's reflection, I changed my mind about what I was going to do as per my previous msg re gross / net, but decided I was still confused once I tried to put the amounts into boxes.  I've sorted out gross / net (if it had not been for the Nationwide bank interest (we left some of the

monies from our flat sale in the UK, foolishly as it turned out!!), the

difference between the net and gross figures I received last year would

have been about £80!), and I am hoping to claim that back, eventually, so I am now trying to work out where it all goes (last year only 2 months income, and not worth worrying about) so this is the first "real year". 

So can someone pl answer these questions?

1) If I quote gross figures for UK income (all but state pension received there, and very little c£1000 transferred last year), presumably I do not need to account for the small amounts I transferred across at the latter end of the year?  ie I can ignore them? You don't declare what you transfer to France , you declare income according to the date you receive it first ie. interest when credited into a UK acc. pensions paid into a UK acc.

2) Personal pensions (as usual through annuity) and occupational pensions - goes into box 1 on 2047 and then into box 1 on 2042 (blue) Occupational  under "pensions retraites etc.." on 2047 and 1AS and 1BS on 2042; BUT personal pensions(annuities)  should be declared in those same places only if there is some connection with an employment ie. annuity bought as part of a money purchase company pension.   If the annuity has been bought on a purely personal basis it SHOULD be declared on 2047 page 1 "rentes viageres...etc" and on 2042 page 3sec 1 "rentes viageres etc.." in Box 1AW..BW..CW..orDW depending on the age of the recipient when pension was first drawn.   I say SHOULD , because generally declaring this way results in paying sociale charges on the taxable part of the pension; this is such a grey area that you can more or less please yourself how you declare such an annuity.   

3) Civil service and local authority pensions - box VII on 2047 -  and then where on blue?Box 8TI -transfer totals net of tax.                                                                                                               

4) state pension is received gross in euros into Fr bank account - where does this go on blue? Box 1AS and 1BS, but also on 2047 page 1 "pensions retraites etc."

5) UK bank interest (not dividend interest, only cash sums) (tax taken at source, as per Nationwide but I presume I put in gross interest recei ved), goes in 2047 - IV but which bit , and where on the blue? Bottom of page 2 sec B "autres revenus de valeurs ...etc" centre table "interets" col 5-0 col 6- 0 then transfer to Box TS on blue 2042.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            6) 2047 - Section VIII is where I put the statement about the E121 etc.That's where the Connexion's "expert" says to put it but I think it's better put alongside 1AS and 1BS on 2042, as putting anything in 2047 may lead to it being taxed in error.

I have the forms for the French bank interest, which I assume I just copy across to EE and TR?You put wherever the bank form directs you.

Thanks.  I'm determined to crack it this year!.

[/quote]

      Hope this helps , Parsnips.

[Sunday Driver]

Judith

To keep things simple for you:......[;-)]

List all of your personal, occupational and state pensions in section 1 of the 2047 under Pensions then carry the total of your husband's pensions across to box 1AS and the total of your pensions across to box 1BS on the blue 2042.

List your civil service and local authority pensions in section VII of the 2047 as follows:

Column 1- Name of recipient   Column 2 - Royaume-Uni  Column 3 - Type of income  Column 4 - Gross amount  Column 5 - UK tax paid. 

Deduct the total of column 5 from the total of column 4 then carry the result across to box 8TI on the blue 2042.

Your UK interest goes into section IV subsection B of 2047 as follows: 

Column 1 - Royaume-Uni   Column 5 - Gross interest amount. 

Carry the total of column 5 across to box 2TS on the blue 2042.

That's it - tax return completed.

 

[Melusin]

hi

i'm trying to declare a uk government pension for the first time and trying to follow your instructions, but can't see a box 8TI on the form. There's an 8Fv an 8TT and a 8UU

the from appears different from last year, so feeling doubly confused here.

thanks for any help you can give

[Judith]

SD, Parnsips,

Many, many thanks.  Well, it's done, right or wrong.  Spent most of today on it, I got mine sorted, then had to get hubby's info into it (took longer than it should as he didn't have all the info I needed!), and then getting the FD5s done and getting all the relevant bits of paper together, copied etc, forgetting somethings at first and loosing P60's temporarily, but at least it is a start, and I'll be delivering it all sometime this week.

I really do think that now I have cracked what goes where, so it should be much quicker and easier next year.  I do hope so as I think I have spent about 3 days in total on it, and hubby has declined all knowledge and responsibility!!!

But without your help we'd have been going around the same circles next year.

[Judith]

[quote user="Sunday Driver"]

Judith

To keep things simple for you:......[;-)]

List all of your personal, occupational and state pensions in section 1 of the 2047 under Pensions then carry the total of your husband's pensions across to box 1AS and the total of your pensions across to box 1BS on the blue 2042.

List your civil service and local authority pensions in section VII of the 2047 as follows:

Column 1- Name of recipient   Column 2 - Royaume-Uni  Column 3 - Type of income  Column 4 - Gross amount  Column 5 - UK tax paid. 

Deduct the total of column 5 from the total of column 4 then carry the result across to box 8TI on the blue 2042.

Your UK interest goes into section IV subsection B of 2047 as follows: 

Column 1 - Royaume-Uni   Column 5 - Gross interest amount. 

Carry the total of column 5 across to box 2TS on the blue 2042.

That's it - tax return completed.

 [/quote]

Just returned from a visit to the tax office (after a morning at the dentist I think it was very brave!!), but I think we are all done.

I managed to mis-read the section number (now I look again) and put the civil service pensions in VI instead of VII, (I do hate pink and blue printing, so dificult to read, and so small!!!), but that is now corrected.  I got some-one who could speak some English, (her stamps says "controleur des impots" so I do hope she does know what's what!!) which helped.  Also at first she was convinced that we had to pay cotisations,  but after discussing with a colleague (I think the Belgians have to pay, UK don't!!), I think it now sorted.  

She signed and stamped the FD5s, as I asked what happened to them (tongue in cheek to see what she said or would do), and gave them back to me (I think she was confused about them also.)

I am more than happy to send them onward (in fact I prefer as long as it is OK to do so) as I did not really want them going into the black hole at the Narbonne tax office with their acres of P60s and tax certificates attached).  In fact now I remember, it is probably better thus as I am awaiting a few more certificate 975's from dear old Nationwide, which amounts I had already included on the FD5, so now they can all go together when they arrive within 10 days (they say!)

SO - and I hope this will be the final question - do they go to Paris as per on the instructions, and NOT CNR Nottingham.  If I sent them directly to Nottingham, would that cause complete confusion???

PS - Could the above very useful hints from SD be put in to the Tax FAQs as they helped me more than the tax FAQs themselves (which I read several times but was still left confused.

[Sunday Driver]

Just send the FD5 directly to Nottingham:

HM Revenue & Customs Residency, Ferrers House, PO Box 38, Nottingham, England NG2 1BB.

 

PS:  SD's useful hints were compiled from the tax FAQs which appear to have left no-one else here confused........[8-)]

 

[mint]

Many apologies if everyone else knows what an FD5 is.  When I eventually got through to a tax official, I was told that as I was resident in France, I needed to do a self assessment.

So, is the self assessment form the same as the FD5?

Chancer has already explained to me that I cannot do it on line as I don't have a UK postcode to be able to request a password or access code.

Is my only option then to print out the form, FD5/self assessment (if it's one and the same thing) and send it off on a wing and a prayer?

Won't go so far as to expect a rebate until several years have passed, of course.  OH eventually got it recognised that he wasn't a UK taxpayer and they refunded approximately half of the money that had been deducted at source and told that the rest of it "could take some time"!

Sometime is now 6 months later.....

[cooperlola]

Back to the FAQs for you, Sweets!

Q          If I’m paying tax in France, how do I inform the UK authorities that I have moved, and reclaim the tax I’m now paying in both countries?

 A          As soon as you move, you should fill in form P85, which is available to download, here.  When you submit your first French tax return, you must also fill in form FD5 (available here ) and hand this to your Centre des Impôts along with the rest of your forms.  Your local office will then sign this to confirm that you are now paying tax in France, and will forward it to the UK, via Paris.  Eventually (and this can take a little time), the tax office in the UK will refund any overpayment, and remove you from the British tax system (unless, of course, your tax is payable in the UK – see above).

 

The FD5 is the form used to reclaim tax paid in the UK which is due when you move.  Nothing to do with your self assesment.

[mint]

Dear, kind, patient Coops! Yes, done all of that:  filled in, sent off and UK has written to say we are not UK taxpayers[:$]

So, I guess we are still waiting for the rest of the overpayment to be returned to us.

In the meantime, we have to claim back the INTEREST on bank deposits.....stupid, old me, getting all muddly as usual and not being able to remember the names of the forms!

I swear I never used to be like this........

[Judith]

[quote user="Sunday Driver"]

Just send the FD5 directly to Nottingham:

HM Revenue & Customs Residency, Ferrers House, PO Box 38, Nottingham, England NG2 1BB.

Thanks!!

PS:  SD's useful hints were compiled from the tax FAQs which appear to have left no-one else here confused........[8-)]

Maybe, but yours was much clearer - espcially as since following it again (against the forms we filled in at the tax office) it does not follow at all!!).

However, I bow to your better knowledge ....

[/quote]

[cooperlola]

With you now, Sweet.  R43. 

http://www.completefrance.com/cs/forums/2086179/ShowPost.aspx

 

Judith, I won't tell you who wrote most of the tax FAQs (in fact nearly all the bits about what to put in which box) but his first name is Sunday.....[;-)]

[Judith]

OK - I admit defeat ..... but logic and I never saw eye to eye.

[cooperlola]

[quote user="Judith"] logic and I never saw eye to eye.
[/quote]Moi non plus!