French Tax

[Gilbert]

I am receiving some income from my Gite in France in Euros which I am paying into my Euro Bank account. How do I account for the taxes for this? Should I declare it in the UK or is there some route that I have to do in France?

[parsnips]

[quote user="Gilbert"]I am receiving some income from my Gite in France in Euros which I am paying into my Euro Bank account. How do I account for the taxes for this? Should I declare it in the UK or is there some route that I have to do in France?[/quote]

Hi,

      This income is taxable in France and should be declared using forms 2042 and 2042C (complementaire). You declare under the micro BIC regime and are taxed on 29% of your gross rents. As a non-resident there is a minimum rate of ,I think, 25%.  However , if you can show that you would be taxed at a lower rate in the UK (by producing a tax assessment) then the rate will be lowered.   As a non resident you do not pay social charges on the rent (as a french resident would).

     I believe you also have to declare in the UK where allowance would be given for french tax paid.

     I have to say that I have known several non-resident gite owners who have not declared their rents anywhere, but waited to see if the tax authorities ever find them.

[Sunday Driver]

[quote user="parsnips"]    

I have to say that I have known several non-resident gite owners who have not declared their rents anywhere, but waited to see if the tax authorities ever find them.

[/quote]

Gilbert wants to properly account for his gite income for tax purposes and you have given him a precise description of the procedure, so what's the point of adding a comment like that? 

 

[parsnips]

[quote user="Sunday Driver"]

[quote user="parsnips"]    

I have to say that I have known several non-resident gite owners who have not declared their rents anywhere, but waited to see if the tax authorities ever find them.

[/quote]

Gilbert wants to properly account for his gite income for tax purposes and you have given him a precise description of the procedure, so what's the point of adding a comment like that? 

 

[/quote]

Hi SD,

    Because it's a fact.

[Gilbert]

Thanks for your help! Where can I obtain the forms?

Thanks

Gilbert

[Dave&Olive]

hi ok

You first need to register your gite with your local mayor form can be found here http://www.completefrance.com/cs/forums/2045901/ShowPost.aspx

the mayor will keep the top copy and stamp and give you back the bottom form ..attach this to your completed Declarartion De Debut D`Activite form no 11921*01 you get from the hotel de imports...return to the fore said office and the tax forms will arrive as if by magic

Dave

[Sunday Driver]

[quote user="parsnips"][quote user="Sunday Driver"]

[quote user="parsnips"]    

I have to say that I have known several non-resident gite owners who have not declared their rents anywhere, but waited to see if the tax authorities ever find them.

[/quote]

Gilbert wants to properly account for his gite income for tax purposes and you have given him a precise description of the procedure, so what's the point of adding a comment like that? 

 

[/quote]

Hi SD,
    Because it's a fact.

[/quote]

It may well be a fact, but why mention it at all?  You'd given Gilbert all the necessary information, so why conclude with a hint on how to cheat the tax authorities?

 

[parsnips]

[quote user="Gilbert"]Thanks for your help! Where can I obtain the forms?

Thanks

Gilbert[/quote]

Hi,

      You should declare your 2010 rentals next spring. The forms will be available to download at www.impots.gouv.fr  from about mid-april. If you want to declare for 2009 you can download now. The first year, your completed forms should be sent to the tax office for the district where your property is. Thereafter you can declare online if you wish.

       When you have the forms ,you can ask on the forum for help to complete, if you need it.

[parsnips]

[quote user="Sunday Driver"][quote user="parsnips"][quote user="Sunday Driver"]

[quote user="parsnips"]    

I have to say that I have known several non-resident gite owners who have not declared their rents anywhere, but waited to see if the tax authorities ever find them.

[/quote]

Gilbert wants to properly account for his gite income for tax purposes and you have given him a precise description of the procedure, so what's the point of adding a comment like that? 

 

[/quote]

Hi SD,

    Because it's a fact.

[/quote]

It may well be a fact, but why mention it at all?  You'd given Gilbert all the necessary information, so why conclude with a hint on how to cheat the tax authorities?

 

[/quote]

Hi,

      It's factual information relating to the subject in discussion. Gilbert is obviously an  intelligent adult, so why should I censor my input-he will do with it what he wishes--in fact he has chosen to do the right thing and declare.  I don't see it as my task to do the tax collectors' job for them. 

[Sunday Driver]

[quote user="parsnips"][quote user="Sunday Driver"][quote user="parsnips"][quote user="Sunday Driver"]

[quote user="parsnips"]    

I have to say that I have known several non-resident gite owners who have not declared their rents anywhere, but waited to see if the tax authorities ever find them.

[/quote]

Gilbert wants to properly account for his gite income for tax purposes and you have given him a precise description of the procedure, so what's the point of adding a comment like that? 

[/quote]

Hi SD,
    Because it's a fact.

[/quote]

It may well be a fact, but why mention it at all?  You'd given Gilbert all the necessary information, so why conclude with a hint on how to cheat the tax authorities?

[/quote]

Hi,
      It's factual information relating to the subject in discussion. Gilbert is obviously an  intelligent adult, so why should I censor my input-he will do with it what he wishes--in fact he has chosen to do the right thing and declare.  I don't see it as my task to do the tax collectors' job for them. 
[/quote]

Come on - it's not factual information relating to the subject in discussion.  The subject in discussion is how to declare rental income to the tax authorities. The 'fact that he has chosen the right thing and declare' suggests that following your advice and not declaring would have been be wrong, so why give it in the first place?

It may not be your task to do the tax collector's job for them, but neither is giving advice on tax evasion.....

 

[parsnips]

[quote user="Sunday Driver"][quote user="parsnips"][quote user="Sunday Driver"][quote user="parsnips"][quote user="Sunday Driver"]

[quote user="parsnips"]    

I have to say that I have known several non-resident gite owners who have not declared their rents anywhere, but waited to see if the tax authorities ever find them.

[/quote]

Gilbert wants to properly account for his gite income for tax purposes and you have given him a precise description of the procedure, so what's the point of adding a comment like that? 

[/quote]

Hi SD,

    Because it's a fact.

[/quote]

It may well be a fact, but why mention it at all?  You'd given Gilbert all the necessary information, so why conclude with a hint on how to cheat the tax authorities?

[/quote]

Hi,

      It's factual information relating to the subject in discussion. Gilbert is obviously an  intelligent adult, so why should I censor my input-he will do with it what he wishes--in fact he has chosen to do the right thing and declare.  I don't see it as my task to do the tax collectors' job for them. 

[/quote]

Come on - it's not factual information relating to the subject in discussion.  The subject in discussion is how to declare rental income to the tax authorities. The 'fact that he has chosen the right thing and declare' suggests that following your advice and not declaring would have been be wrong, so why give it in the first place?

It may not be your task to do the tax collector's job for them, but neither is giving advice on tax evasion.....

 

[/quote]

Hi,

     In this, my very last word on the subject, I state that I at no time gave "advice" to evade tax to the OP. I merely reported my factual experience with several people in a similar situation. As to what our "jobs" are on this forum, I understood it was to discuss subjects raised and to follow threads wherever they might lead, within the bounds of decency and the laws of libel. 

[Mikep]

You two are being very English! Have a glass of wine and lighten up!

[parsnips]

[quote user="Mikep"]You two are being very English! Have a glass of wine and lighten up!

[/quote]

Hi,

      I would like to thank you for your sensible comment, but unfortunately barred myself from doing so by claiming to have said my final word on this!

[Sunday Driver]

I wouldn't call it a particularly sensible comment.  Nevertheless, it does present the opportunity to avoid an unnecessarily prolonged debate......[;-)]

 

[jasika]

France is where the main residence or home is (foyer). This embraces ideas of permanence and stability and ignores temporary absences, and is the rule the French authorities will most rely on. If a spouse and children live in France a person will also probably be considered French tax resident even if they work abroad.France is the principal place of abode (lieu de séjour principal). This usually means more than 183 days in France in a calendar year. It does not have to be a continuous period of 183 days; this is a cumulative rule assessed over a French tax year ,Even if a foreigner spend less than 183 days in France, they may be tax resident if they have spent more time in France than in any other country.Days of arrival and departure count towards the cumulative total of days spent in France.A person's principal activity is in France, for example, their occupation is in France (whether salaried or not); or their main income arises in France (whether salaried or not), unless they can show that such activity is purely incidental (à titre accessoire),France is the country of a person's most substantial assets (centre of economic interests). This means if France is the place of principal investments, or where assets are administered, or from where a larger part of income is drawn.

[Bob T]

[quote user="jasika"]France is where the main residence or home is (foyer). This embraces ideas of permanence and stability and ignores temporary absences, and is the rule the French authorities will most rely on. If a spouse and children live in France a person will also probably be considered French tax resident even if they work abroad.France is the principal place of abode (lieu de séjour principal). This usually means more than 183 days in France in a calendar year. It does not have to be a continuous period of 183 days; this is a cumulative rule assessed over a French tax year ,Even if a foreigner spend less than 183 days in France, they may be tax resident if they have spent more time in France than in any other country.Days of arrival and departure count towards the cumulative total of days spent in France.A person's principal activity is in France, for example, their occupation is in France (whether salaried or not); or their main income arises in France (whether salaried or not), unless they can show that such activity is purely incidental (à titre accessoire),France is the country of a person's most substantial assets (centre of economic interests). This means if France is the place of principal investments, or where assets are administered, or from where a larger part of income is drawn.

[/quote]

I think that you need to check your sources there. The 183 day rule is a UK rule and not a French one.

[Pickles]

Jasika's several postings are copied from other sites and appear to be an attempt to get the web link at the bottom of the posting onto the Forum site to boost the weblink's search engine ratings.

Regards

Pickles

[parsnips]

[quote user="Bob T"][quote user="jasika"]France is where the main residence or home is (foyer). This embraces ideas of permanence and stability and ignores temporary absences, and is the rule the French authorities will most rely on. If a spouse and children live in France a person will also probably be considered French tax resident even if they work abroad.France is the principal place of abode (lieu de séjour principal). This usually means more than 183 days in France in a calendar year. It does not have to be a continuous period of 183 days; this is a cumulative rule assessed over a French tax year ,Even if a foreigner spend less than 183 days in France, they may be tax resident if they have spent more time in France than in any other country.Days of arrival and departure count towards the cumulative total of days spent in France.A person's principal activity is in France, for example, their occupation is in France (whether salaried or not); or their main income arises in France (whether salaried or not), unless they can show that such activity is purely incidental (à titre accessoire),France is the country of a person's most substantial assets (centre of economic interests). This means if France is the place of principal investments, or where assets are administered, or from where a larger part of income is drawn.

[/quote]

I think that you need to check your sources there. The 183 day rule is a UK rule and not a French one.

[/quote]

Hi,

      The "183 day rule" is a subsidiary condition which is taken into account by both the UK and France in the few cases where residency cannot be decided by more obvious means. For example , where a person has  a home in both countries  and sources of income worldwide, and both countries are seeking to tax him, the 183 day "rule" may be invoked. I have seen mention of the 183 days in a french fiscal instruction (sorry but I don't have a reference).

[Will]

French tax documents try to avoid references to '183 days' and specific time limits, the reason being that if somebody regularly spends time in three or more countries they may spend significantly fewer than 183 days in France, or any other individual country, but if they spend the majority of their time in France, they will thus fulfil the residence qualification. This largely avoids the need for the additional '90 day rule' which the UK authorities can invoke to overcome certain ex-pat tax avoidance issues.

Anyway, the time spent in France is of minor importance when determining residence, something which this (admittedly unofficial, but as a result easy to understand) guide demonstrates.

[Adr]

Hi,

I understand that, as a non resident with only rental income, you have to declare the income on tax form 2042C.

Do you also have to state the income somewhere on form 2042 or is this only for your personal details?

Many thanks - Adrian