claiming RMI

[antoinette]

can anyone tell me how they got RMI.have been refused last year and am re-applying.the letter they sent me seems to be saying that only a recent event will make us eligible.have been here 3 years and cannot get work.have a daughter 6years old and am running out of funds.need help urgently!!!

[Bones]

Hello.

You need to go through a social worker, there will be one dedicated to your area.

[Busy Bee]

Ask at the maire or the CAF for the Assistant Sociale, they are very helpful at knowing which forms to fill out - correctly and chasing things up for you.  They don't seem to have the power to make any decisions though even though they work for the CAF.  Hope that helps and you sort something out, good luck.

[Panda]

Perhaps they are quoting the legislation that you cannot stay in France if you are a burden on the country and don't have enough to keep yourself.  The recent change they are referring to could be perhaps the legislation that in the case of a life changing event such as main wage earner dies etc.. you can get help.  

I would have thought that it must be almost impossbile to gain access to RMI these days as you can't stay without funds, if you have funds you don't need RMI?

 

[cooperlola]

This thought struck me too, Panda.  Unless you have been here for five years, you are subject to a minimum income requirement, but only if you are inactive.  If our o/p has work history in France, then of course this may be a different matter.  I don't think the "accident de vie" provisions apply to social security.  I did not think that non-French people were entitled to this, without a history of contributions here.

http://vosdroits.service-public.fr/particuliers/F12017.xhtml?&n=Etrangers%20en%20France&l=N8&n=Citoyens%20communautaires%20en%20France&l=N112

Droit au séjour

Conditions exigées 

Pour disposer d'un droit au séjour en qualité de "non-actifs", les intéressés doivent remplir certaines conditions. 

Les retraités et autres inactifs doivent disposer, pour eux et les membres de leur famille, de ressources suffisantes pour ne pas devenir une charge pour le système d'assistance sociale français et d'une assurance maladie-maternité. 

Les étudiants doivent être inscrits dans un établissement pour y suivre à titre principal des études ou, dans ce cadre, une formation professionnelle et garantir disposer d'une assurance maladie-maternité et de ressources suffisantes pour eux et les membres de leur famille afin de ne pas être une charge. 

 

Montant des ressources 

Le caractère suffisant des ressources est apprécié en tenant compte de la situation personnelle de l'intéressé. 

Le montant exigé ne peut dépasser le montant du revenu minimum d'insertion (au 1er janvier 2008, 447,91 EUR  / mois pour une personne seule sans enfant) ou si la personne a plus de 65 ans, sauf exceptions, le montant de l'allocation de solidarité aux personnes âgées (au 1er janvier 2008, 628,10 EUR /mois maximum pour une personne seule).  

La charge pour le système d'assistance sociale français est évaluée en prenant notamment en compte : 

• le montant des prestations sociales non contributives (c'est à dire versées sans contrepartie de cotisations) qui ont été accordées à l'intéressé, 

• la durée de ses difficultés et de son séjour. 

This is the European law (oddly, it's also the legislation that began the healthcare debate!)

Right of residence for more than three months

1. All Union citizens shall have the right of residence on the

territory of another Member State for a period of longer than

three months if they:

(a) are workers or self-employed persons in the host Member

State; or

(b) have sufficient resources for themselves and their family

members not to become a burden on the social assistance

system of the host Member State during their period of

residence and have comprehensive sickness insurance cover

in the host Member State

 

[Russethouse]

In the process of clearing out my email inbox I came across a note from a past forum member who had been on RMI and was being forced to leave France, she was frantically trying to rehome animals etc

I have a feeling that being forced to leave is not really such a new thing

[Panda]

As has often been said the legislation that is now being enforced is not new legislation it is just that it is being strictly applied now.  Making a request for RMI is a sure way to highlight that you do not meet the requirements to stay in France.  If you came over had a job and then lost that job then you may get some help but from what I understand even this help will be strictly limited and will only extend to the amount of time you were making contributions, i.e. if you pay into the system for 1 year you would get 1 year of benefit whilst seeking alternative employment.

I have to say I think this is a fairer system,  you get benefit for the contributions you've made. 

[Bones]

1: You don't get chomage if you're self employed and your business goes under, that's hardly a fair system.

2: It's pretty hard to get a job in the first place, very hard in some areas! If you've come over with, say, a french partner and your kid is English - the kid integrates for a few years whilst you tend to the home, then your partner leaves you (or whatever) you wouldn't - under the fair system described - be eligible for rmi and would be sent home. I'd argue that that wasn't a fair system at all.

We're all European now! In France the minimum age for RMI is - I believe - 21 or thereabouts; if you've not managed to find work in that time (which is possible in the current economic climate) are we saying that you should be sent to, say, England? Of course not. Why? Because you were born here. If on the other hand you're English and own a home in the same area as said laddy you'll have been paying council tax etc that in part goes to help the unemployed French youngster, who might live in social housing in the same village but not pay one red cent himself. I'm losing my thread here but what I'm trying to say is that the op will have made some contributions to France whilst being here and has never claimed anything back. The RMI is a real piffling sum, I think she deserves it and she certainly won't want to stay on it for any serious length of time.

Go and see the social worker and perhaps they'll be some flexibility, especially considering the fact that there is a child invovled.

[cooperlola]

I think it's a tough one, Bones, and I take your point.  In the o/p's case I certainly would not give up without trying, but it's worth knowing the pitfalls, as I believe she is now in a difficult position because of the rules.  The same arguments were made re the healthcare and the minister did grant some relief under "accident de vie" provisions, in that anybody widowed, divorced, or with changed financial circumstances beyond their control, may still get CMU cover.  However, with RMI it is a social security benefit which any government may now argue they are not obliged to pay, for citizens of other countries.  The argument is, I guess, that before you moved, you probably had a history of NI contributions paid in your country of origin - not in France.  If one has not worked in all that time, then one has not paid any soc sec contributions here.

If one had a French partner, and they left you, then I'm sure there are ways of getting benefits, as the "guilty" party here was French, if you will.  But if one moves to another EU country as a jobseeker and the search was futile, then it is a different matter.

It does reinforce the point, though, that finding work here is not easy.  There is a very good reason why there are 300,000 French people working in the UK - I can't believe that they are all there because they have always dreamt of a life in Britain!

EDIT : Also, of course, after 5 years - one does become entitled to all the benefits due to a citizen of the country you've moved to, regardless of payment history.

 

[Panda]

Bones that's not strictly the case, I have a friend who was an agent comercial,  so self employed this didnt work out ,and now she gets chomage, limited to the amount of time she paid in as I said before.

We don't know the OP's circumstances as I said if she lost her job, lost her partner etc. then I too feel for her, if however she came to France with a child with the hope of getting a job with clearly little french (she didn't understand the rejection letter) then I do feel France should not have to bail her out for what was a very ill researched move. In her place I would have no hesitation but to return to the UK where it's easy to find work and if not at least you can get the help needed.

Am I being too harsh?

 

[5-element]

[quote user="Bones"]

 

In France the minimum age for RMI is - I believe - 21 or thereabouts

 The RMI is a real piffling sum,

[/quote]

Points of information:

The minimum age for RMI is 25. WHich is why there are more and more homeless and penniless under-25's in the streets, or living in terrible conditions - some of them chucked out by their parents, etc...

Maximum amount for RMI is about 450€ per month. Which means that if you have ANY other income from whatever source, if you are entitled to RMI, you will only get the balance of 450€ less what your income is.

[Russethouse]

if however she came to France with a child with the hope of getting a job with clearly little french (she didn't understand the rejection letter) then I do feel France should not have to bail her out for what was a very ill researched move.

Just remember that next time you see someone advised to 'follow their dream or 'go for it !' [;-)][;-)]

[cooperlola]

[quote user="Russethouse"]

 

Just remember that next time you see someone advised to 'follow their dream or 'go for it !' [;-)][;-)]

[/quote]This advice should always come with a "make sure you have an escape route" caveat, imo, and for just this reason.

[Panda]

Definitely, there are too many people coming over without a startup plan let alone a get out plan!!  I would like to know the OP's story, might help others in making such choices.

[cooperlola]

This, to my mind, is always what starts the "rose tinted v dark specs" debate, Panda.  Generally - or so it seems to me, those who've done plenty of research and know what they're in for cope better with both their lives here, and the consequences if things go wrong.  Like you, I'm not talking about our o/p  as I have no idea how she got where she is now, and this could easily have been through somebody else's fault.  But it really does underline the necessity to be sure what you're letting yourself in for when you make big decisions - which may affect other members of your family, children often being the sad victims here.

[Bones]

[quote user="Panda"]

Bones that's not strictly the case, I have a friend who was an agent comercial,  so self employed this didnt work out ,and now she gets chomage, limited to the amount of time she paid in as I said before.

We don't know the OP's circumstances as I said if she lost her job, lost her partner etc. then I too feel for her, if however she came to France with a child with the hope of getting a job with clearly little french (she didn't understand the rejection letter) then I do feel France should not have to bail her out for what was a very ill researched move. In her place I would have no hesitation but to return to the UK where it's easy to find work and if not at least you can get the help needed.

Am I being too harsh?

 

[/quote]

As far as I know your friend would have had to have been salaried and there are schemes for this.

Are you being harsh? Yes! If it wasn't for the Op's grandad they'd all be eating sausage and have some diminutive fascist president as leader!

Oh...

I do have a French friend who truly believes this, he's dead set against (particularly) muslims coming to France but has no problem with any of our WW2 allies coming over! The mind boggles.

But I digress, I do agree that the burden of responsibility lies with the immigrant. If the immigrant is from a nation where, say, living standards are truly abysmal then I believe we should make an effort to welcome them in: at least that's my lonely position. I'd fund this, by the way, with the estimated global cost of 6 trillion wasted on the Iraq/Afghanistan 'wars' - money out of arms and huge reconstruction companies pockets and less refugees created to boot. Simple!

Britain, though, isn't one of these 'abysmal' countries, and if the op was childless I too would advocate a swift return to dear old Blighty: lesson learned. Hindsight is a wonderful thing and this moving abroad lark is something relatively new to us Brits (isn't it?). We've made a few mistakes, didn't realise how difficult it would be to make a living abroad and now that our kids are integrated we should be viewed as being in need of avuncular aid (as one would view an asylum seeker). Not for the sake of the adults but for the sake of the kids.

Anyway, aren't France going through a population crisis?

I've never understood that. France wants more people, so it pays out small fortunes to couples if they have more sprogs, even though there are no jobs for said sprogs. Meanwhile we have a load of immigrants just dying to come in and clean our streets, anything being better than where they were previously domiciled, and their kids would be so motivated to building a better life for themselves if we didn't stick them in crappy council ghettos and inwardly - sometimes outwardly - sneer when they walk by. This, by the way, is why we have 'hard' black and asian men in Britain, used to be just the black population - they got sick of being mocked and grew up tough - now the asians are (inevitably, wisely) joining in! Riots are the precursor, police give them a hard time and they riot and then the police think twice, as do the sneerers. I'm generalising of course but that's the way I saw it where I grew up.

Am I digressing into amateur sociology again?

My plan: welcome in more immigrants, rmi them and stick them in HLM houses, find them menial labour jobs that help the community and don't sneer at them for being 'reduced to this', educate their kids towards decent professions rather than give up on them as scum that'll just end up being drug dealers (that one's for you teachers!).

Utopia!

[8-)]