Bank cards in France

[idun]

 I used to be a teenage bank clerk. I was never rude,  polite and authoritative is a better description, as I knew my job.

I suppose that the clients thought that I was a kid. Would I have been judged by my looks? well, it never crossed my mind. Although I'm sure everyone remembered a couple of my particularly pretty colleagues.

[idun]

Sid, even if it isn't there, then it doesn't mean it doesn't happen, the amount spent per week etc. (I know that there are cash withdrawal limits).

I had a problem, trying without success to transfer money to the UK and could not. I went through all my french bank conditions to see why I couldn't do it as an internet transfer and then called the branch  no one at the branch could answer. So I called Head Office, and they were rude and didn't answer either. Eventually, someone found out why, but it wasn't on any info I had at home. Maybe because I kicked off so much, it is available now.

[sid]

I just don't know. I've emailed them and I'll tell you what I find out.

 

[allanb]

Like Sid, I had to search to find those limits on my bank account. They are there, but rather annoyingly, I couldn't find them in any index or list of contents; I really had to comb through the small print.

However, as far as I can see they only apply to use of the debit card. I think I could write a check for whatever I have in the account.

Taking Sid's other point: if you want to use an online bank (which I do) but you also want to be able to deposit cash, you can always keep the online account but open a Livret A with a "normal" bank; I use the Banque Postale. Additionally you then have a second source for cash withdrawals, in case the ATMs are on strike.

[sid]

Humph! It appears that there are limits; 450€ per 7 days for cash withdrawal and 2300€ per month for purchases. My increase, requested about 5 years ago, would only have been temporary apparently. I'm awaiting some more clarification because this doesn't seem to be shown anywhere in my terms and conditions documents (now 9 years old - so I would expect them to have been raised a little anyway in that time), and neither do these conditions appear to be accessible online.

Apparently I can have a higher limit on cash withdrawals for a fee of 5€ for a month or 23€ for a year! Charging me to spend my own dosh!

Actually, Mme Sid et moi, have a card each, and the limits are per card, so that probably takes care of any emergency requirement.

I feel a bit let down about this, as the service has always been good; polite and prompt up to now, and even today I can't fault the customer service person, but the rules seem daft. I don't know why I'm worrying, but I suppose it's just because they haven't told me about them, and if Chancer hadn't mentioned this earlier I would never have known. 

[suein56]

[quote user="sid"]...I suppose it's just because they haven't told me about them, and if Chancer hadn't mentioned this earlier I would never have known. [/quote]

Every year we receive a new info sheet from our Bank detailing every cash/spending limit for every card that the bank provide. When I asked about why we rec'd this every year when the amounts did not change every year we were told it was a legal requirement for the Bank to do this.

Sue

[Mrs Trellis]

Well, maybe I remember incorrectly, but whatever, we couldn't get a store card in Casto.  Had an Intermarche one for years, no problems, in fact it's our nearest supermarket and the points build up nicely.

We definitely couldn't get a 2 euro a month Free mobile card online.  Completed the online application with all the CA bank account details, but could not complete the transaction as they also wanted the Franch bank card details.  I don't understand why!

I just thought that, as we live here and spend in euros, it would make sense to have our main income in the French bank instead of me having to remember to transfer money from Nationwide a few times a year.  However, if there are such low limits on spending, it makes me wonder!  I'm going to end up buying major items on my UK credit card anyway.

[NormanH]

As I explained at the very beginning it depends which card you have

These are the cards offered by Crédit Agricole (along the top) and the list of services is down the side.

Click on the card that seems the best to see more detail about the offer.

https://www.ca-languedoc.fr/particuliers/moyens-de-paiement/comparateur-cartes.html

As I also said before the Gold Mastercard lets you have up to 1500€ cash for example.

The Cartwin cards are debit and credit combined on the same card , and you choose which at the moment you use them.

[Chancer]

Most of those services are of no real use or value other than as appat to make the customer subscribe, no mention of the cash withdrawal or payment limits that we know exist, French banks just love to keep the customer in the dark and subservient.

Look carefully at even the most expensive card, it wont even let you check your balance at a distributeur [:-))] that surely is the most basic requirement of a bank card, something that I have taken for granted for 35 years now in the UK, and to think that France once led the world in banking [:'(]

Mind you not much point in knowing that you have €3K in the account if the card wont let you spend more than half of it without going cap in hand to the bank and then paying for the priveledge of spending your own money.

Note that the most basic card, L'autre carte which they try their hardest to deconseil you to have lets you check your balance and also pay for purchases abroad but not in France!!!, thats all part of the discouragement, they spent so much time giving me scenarios where it allegedly wouldnt work (but in fact does) undeterred thats the one I signed up for but they tried to pass me off with a Mastercard, I accepted their lies about how they thought it would be so much better for me that they decided to give it to me as I was such a nice chap, then made them refund the card fee when it was debitted.

I will have a similar fight next year when they will try to say that they can only refund the first years fee, I will win as they said the card was free and it doesnt expire for another few years plus my contract signed by both parties was for a Carte libre service.

[Chancer]

To add to the incompetence of the French banking system, not only can you not check your balance with a debit card but when you make purchases they can take up to a week to show on the on line banking statement, even if it were to show available balance it would be something.

How are people that spend primarily with a debit card supposed to keep a tally of their balance? or maybe they all pay for the priveledge of an overdraft.

Not too bad for me as I have always had a pretty good feeling for how much or little is left, tonight I didnt go to the diving fosse as I didnt think I had enough money to fill the car up, the on line banking hadnt even shown my debit card purchases of 3 days ago.

Now it has updated and I have €8.57 remaining in my account and €5 in my wallet, problem is I spent €10 on the card today, my old bank made me interdit bancaire for going €2 into the red, of course they didnt deem to tell me about it or their malicious actions, they just closed the account. 

[Sprogster]

idun, whilst in the UK there is a limit to the amount of cash you can draw out with your bank debit car at an ATM each day for fraud prevention, there is no daily or other limit to the amount you can use your card to purchase goods or services, if there is sufficient funds in your account to cover.

You can buy a new car using your debit card in the UK if you have funds to cover!

Why the French banks limit the use of a debit card for purchases I have no idea, but my guess is that they do not have as sophisticated systems.

[NormanH]

I think the limit on card purchases is an anti-fraud measure. If someone has possession of a  stolen card they come up a stop at the point that the limit is reached.

[Chancer]

They have got you believing that as well Norman!!!

They are only protecting themselves at our cost and inconvenience, under the European banking convention the customer is not responsible for the loss (although maybe the first €100) unless they have acted fraudulently or given the card and PIN to another.

Misuse of a card is a real problem and the banks must fight against the criminal customers but there is a huge difference between the way the UK and French banks deal with it, in France they will just tell you tough ****, and given that the customer has already been so compliant to accept all the restrictions placed on them they just meekly accept it and probably are thankfull for the limit on the card.

When Speedferries went down I lost £225 as I had only used one of the 10 tickets that I bought using my Visa card, Nationwide made a Visa chargeback claim for me and even refunded the money immediately themselves whilst waiting for the claim to be processed (had it been unsuccessfull or even fraudulent they would have taken it back).

The Visa chargeback procedure and rules are the same across all of Europe, an acquaintance, an englishman fluent French speaking who had been here for 20 years was delighted with the info I had given him, he had paid by Visa and the French bank had said tough, he went back with all the details and they still said tough, they werent in the slightest bit interested, he had lost money why should that be of concern to them was the response.

[NormanH]

I can only say that my bank account in France works far better than any of the several I had over 30 years in the UK.

I think that the stricter rules here are part of the reason why personal debt in France was much lower, until recently at any rate.

In France I have never been refused a loan or a 100% mortgage (I am too

old to ask for one now) but I had to provide checkable justification and

proof that I could repay on the 3-1 rule, abandoned  years ago in the UK

France was for a long time ahead of the UK in terms of security (the PIN code on the card is a good example. My UK never had that, it was always just on signature and a trundle trundle swipe over a piece of greasy paper that left it wide open to abuse)

When I was made redundant in the UK I was hauled in to see a so-called advisor (for the first time in 10 years) under the pretext of 'helping me manage my new financial situation'

He just wanted my card and cheque book back, leaving me with no means of payment.

When one of my  CA cards was stolen I was immediately refunded the money that had been taken out fraudulently, and if ever my second account looks like it might  stay  the red for too long my conseilleur gives me a friendly ring to warn me.

I have far more contact at the local branch with the person responsible. He is often in my local café too which helps

[Chancer]

No arguament with you over the debt and irresponsable borrowing however when it comes to modern services like on line banking, e-commerce etc they can be lacking.

For ages my old bank would charge for on line banking and you couldnt actually do much when you had access and had to go into the brance, you have complained on that subject, on the positive side there are still plenty of branches, job creation etc.

I transferred some money today, its an instant transfer and will hit my French account within minutes, if I go to the branch it will show on my balance but as for the on line banking? tomorrow if I am lucky. The debit card payment that I made yesterday has still to be debitted from my account, it usually takes 3 days, in this case its my saviour as it would put me a couple of Euros overdrawn and I have already had one account closed and been declared interdit bancaire for the same heinous crime.

The instant I spend any money in either country on my Nationwide card my on line balance will show a figure for available funds that correspond with the up to the minute situation, I have spent the money, it may take a few days for the transaction to go between the banks but the act of the purchase authorisation will reduce instantly my available balance, I cannot spend money that I dont have and I know instantly how much I have left to spend, TBH I have taken this for granted for so many years that I just cannot accept how sloth like and un user friendly the French system is.

[Bill]

Good Morning all.

 

I assumed I was alone  as the only person with  a major headache with my thieving barsteward of a bank  HSBC , limit to 1000 cash withdrawal a week and 3000 spend per month on the card carte bleu ,  of course I can buy the infinity option which is 5k and 30k , but no way  I want to give them 350 quid for the ability to spend my own..

 

my thought was to open a second bank account with a local bank, and if I need lots of cash for any reason , I can bowl in and get some.. with a cheque .  Hoping that system will work I have the following four banks with branches in my local town Villedieux

credit agrcole

banque  populairede l'ouest

CIC

BNP paribas

casse 'Epergne  ( cannot read wifes writing !)

 

any thoughts or experiences about which one is best, no intention of having a card with them , just a cash cow in rare times of need. intend to keep hsbc only because the standing orders for the utilities are set up.

 

thanks for any further input ..

 

rgds

Bill (not so alone !)   

[idun]

Well I have run accounts at three of those banks and don' t trust or like any of them. As the choice of good banks IMO, in France is like hen's teeth, then go in and see how you like the staff, that is the only criteria I would use.

[Hereford]

In our local Credit Agricole there are no tellers (biggish town) so you cannot get cash with a cheque.  If one does not have a card (with the limits!) then you ask a person standing behind a sort of high desk in the foyer and they give you a one time card to get cash from the machine. No idea what limits would be though as we do have a card.

I think you may need to go into your local bank branches and see what goes on.

[dave21478]

I don't think its really a feasible plan - my experience of French banks is that they dislike handing out cash. I'm with the Credit Agricole and my branch is the main one for the area (admittedly a rural area) and they have a "float" of 2k euros for the day, which they will distribute amongst the other branches as they need it. They will not pay it out to one person as it would leave them with nothing else. It is theoretically possible to withdraw larger amounts, but you need to give written notice in advance, explain what it is for (I doubt if that's a real requirement, I suspect they are just nosy feckers) and obviously show the usual ID.....ie 19 different forms of photo ID, an attestation from the midwife who delivered you and a character reference from the Pope.

Basically - they have your money, and if you are really nice to them, pay them the relevant fees and jump through the right hoops, they will let you have it piecemeal. If you don't like that - tough titty.

[Chancer]

So so true!

Its a shame they dont get you to write their terms and conditions for them [:D]

No that wouldnt be any use as they wont allow let their customers to have them [:(]

I was really nice to them once and they allowed me to look at them for all of 10 seconds before snatching them away!!!

[sid]

[quote user="dave21478"]I don't think its really a feasible plan - my experience of French banks is that they dislike handing out cash. I'm with the Credit Agricole and my branch is the main one for the area (admittedly a rural area) and they have a "float" of 2k euros for the day, which they will distribute amongst the other branches as they need it. They will not pay it out to one person as it would leave them with nothing else. It is theoretically possible to withdraw larger amounts, but you need to give written notice in advance, explain what it is for (I doubt if that's a real requirement, I suspect they are just nosy feckers) and obviously show the usual ID.....ie 19 different forms of photo ID, an attestation from the midwife who delivered you and a character reference from the Pope. Basically - they have your money, and if you are really nice to them, pay them the relevant fees and jump through the right hoops, they will let you have it piecemeal. If you don't like that - tough titty.[/quote]

That doesn't sound right; there's more than that in a cash machine, so they must have more available to refill the machine. It depends on the note denomination of course, but 20,000€ wouldn't be unusual for an ATM in the country, and in the towns and cities it would be considerably more.

I think there is just a suspicion of requesting large amounts of cash when most things can be paid for by cheque or card.

[Chancer]

The bank doesnt fill the ATM's in fact they have no access to them whatsoever, its a private security company the type with  armoured vehicles (Securicor, Gruop 4 etc) that services the distributeurs.

[Chancer]

It strikes me that the French banks want to limit customer contact and to automate everything, thats completely understandable in this modern economy but they have just not put the effort into the systems like internet banking, often they are very poor and the customer is expected to pay for the priveledge of using them, these things have improved during my time in France however.

What does seem odd is that the drive for automation does not seem to be to reduce costs by closing branches, a controversial subject I agree but more so that those employed in the branches dont have to spend any of their precious time actually dealing with the great unwashed, the customers without whom they would not have a comfortable job.

[Bill]

thanks chaps..seems plan a would not work so went to plan b and  had long chat with the nice man from hsbc, seems they can double the amounts, so thats fine..

 

bill

[dave21478]

Double post. I have given up waiting for the forum to sort out its issues with Chrome and now downloaded Firefox specifically for when I need to quote a post or post a picture.

Isn't technology great.