Making Tax Return if outside France for more than 185 days

[idun]

Sounds to me like you need a good international accountant used to dealing with 'pilots'.

We can all say what we want, but in the end, it is between you and the tax man in France, and we can only make suggestions, some of which may be wrong and not applicable to yourself. Get professional help.

I suggested the Centre de Non Residents, but hopefully you won't need them, as non residents with tax due in France pay far more tax than those who are french residents.

[mogs]

"

But also in this case, it looks to my inexpert view quite likely that the special regimes applicable to aviators and merchant seamen apply ..."

Could you please explain Pickles, simply and in English if possible, what those special regimes are?   I ask because this applies to my OH and income earned offshore has always been declared in France and taxed in France which is where we live.   If there is anyway of getting some tax back I'm all for it.   I've recently found out that a friend of my son is also a seafarer, he's French, has a house in France, works all over the world and yet he doesn't have to pay tax because they consider him an expatriate - he was surprised that we pay.   Many thanks

[Pickles]

[quote user="mogs"]"

But also in this case, it looks to my inexpert view quite likely that the special regimes applicable to aviators and merchant seamen apply ..."

Could you please explain Pickles, simply and in English if possible, what those special regimes are?   I ask because this applies to my OH and income earned offshore has always been declared in France and taxed in France which is where we live.   If there is anyway of getting some tax back I'm all for it.   I've recently found out that a friend of my son is also a seafarer, he's French, has a house in France, works all over the world and yet he doesn't have to pay tax because they consider him an expatriate - he was surprised that we pay.   Many thanks

[/quote]

It's all down to Article 81A of the code general des impots mentioned earlier:

[quote]I. - Les personnes domiciliées en France au sens de l'article 4 B qui

exercent une activité salariée et sont envoyées par un employeur dans

un Etat autre que la France et que celui du lieu d'établissement de cet

employeur peuvent bénéficier d'une exonération d'impôt sur le revenu à

raison des salaires perçus en rémunération de l'activité exercée dans

l'Etat où elles sont envoyées.

L'employeur doit être établi en France ou dans un autre Etat

membre de l'Union européenne, ou dans un autre Etat partie à l'accord

sur l'Espace économique européen ayant conclu avec la France une

convention d'assistance administrative en vue de lutter contre la fraude

et l'évasion fiscales.

L'exonération d'impôt sur le revenu mentionnée au premier

alinéa est accordée si les personnes justifient remplir l'une des

conditions suivantes :

1° Avoir été effectivement soumises, sur les rémunérations en

cause, à un impôt sur le revenu dans l'Etat où s'exerce leur activité et

sous réserve que cet impôt soit au moins égal aux deux tiers de celui

qu'elles auraient à supporter en France sur la même base d'imposition ;

2° Avoir exercé l'activité salariée dans les conditions mentionnées aux premier et deuxième alinéas :

- soit pendant une durée supérieure à cent quatre-vingt-trois

jours au cours d'une période de douze mois consécutifs lorsqu'elle se

rapporte aux domaines suivants :

a) Chantiers de construction ou de montage, installation

d'ensembles industriels, leur mise en route, leur exploitation et

l'ingénierie y afférente ;

b) Recherche ou extraction de ressources naturelles ;

c) Navigation à bord de navires immatriculés au registre international français,

- soit pendant une durée supérieure à cent vingt jours au

cours d'une période de douze mois consécutifs lorsqu'elle se rapporte à

des activités de prospection commerciale.

Les dispositions du 2° ne s'appliquent ni aux travailleurs frontaliers ni aux agents de la fonction publique.

II. - Lorsque les personnes mentionnées au premier alinéa du I

ne remplissent pas les conditions définies aux 1° et 2° du même I, les

suppléments de rémunération qui leur sont éventuellement versés au titre

de leur séjour dans un autre Etat sont exonérés d'impôt sur le revenu

en France s'ils réunissent les conditions suivantes :

1° Etre versés en contrepartie de séjours effectués dans l'intérêt direct et exclusif de l'employeur ;

2° Etre justifiés par un déplacement nécessitant une résidence

d'une durée effective d'au moins vingt-quatre heures dans un autre Etat

;

3° Etre déterminés dans leur montant préalablement aux séjours

dans un autre Etat et en rapport, d'une part, avec le nombre, la durée

et le lieu de ces séjours et, d'autre part, avec la rémunération versée

aux salariés compte non tenu des suppléments mentionnés au premier

alinéa. Le montant des suppléments de rémunération ne peut pas excéder

40 % de celui de la rémunération précédemment définie.[/quote]

The important bit being

[quote]I. - Persons domiciled in France within the meaning of Article 4 B who are employed and are sent by an employer to a State other than France and other than the place of business of the employer are eligible for exemption tax on income in respect of wages levied for the activity in the State where they are sent.

...

2 Having been gainfully employed in the conditions mentioned in the first and second paragraphs (ie to do with the country of the employer):

- Either for a duration longer than 183 days during a period of twelve consecutive months when it relates to the following areas:

a) ...

b) ...

c) On board ships registered in French international register

- Or for a period exceeding one hundred and twenty days during a period of twelve consecutive months when it relates to business development activities.[/quote]

[Chiefluvvie]

Such a shame Africa Pilot decided to have a go at me early on in this rambling post. I have all the answers s/he is looking for but am certainly not pre-disposed to share them.

My employer just happens to be excellent at supplying up-to-date and individual taxation advice which also takes residency into account - after all they also have a legal obligation to comply and report.

Suffice to restate that airline personnel and mariners have very specific taxation structures which can be very advantageous - mainly dependent on your recorded 'movements'.

AP reminds me of a good friend of mine who flys between Angola, Namibia and South Africa - he's a mercenary. Not sure he's ever paid a cent anywhere!

Chiefluvvie

[Africa Pilot]

Whatever makes you think I "had a go at you"?

I merely pointed out to you that just because I am a pilot does not mean that I work for an airline. Then you decide to sulk and not share your knowledge with other users on the forum.

I guess your moniker suits you...

[AnOther]

[quote user="mogs"]this applies to my OH and income earned offshore has always been declared in France............I've recently found out that a friend of my son is also a seafarer, he's French, has a house in France, works all over the world and yet he doesn't have to pay tax because they consider him an expatriate[/quote]There is a huge difference between being a simple offshore worker and a merchant seaman !

You'll have to be more specific.

[mogs]

ANO - what is a merchant seaman?   I believed it is someone who works at sea, on a vessel but doesn't fight in wars?   Perhaps my understanding is totally wrong

[idun]

 I was told that they have a sort of merchant seaman's registration 'ticket', having passed the necessary tests, even for the most basic of jobs.

Working offshore ie on a rig, isn't being a merchant seaman.

[mogs]

I believe it's called a "discharge" book, in that the seaman takes it with him wherever he goes to work even if different employers.   So yes, my OH has one of these.