MrCanary Posted April 26, 2007 Share Posted April 26, 2007 I have just been watching the BBC Breakfast programme. One of the stories on there this morning is about people from eastern Europe coming to Britain 'to get a better life'. Apparently they can earn about five times as much in the UK as they could in their own country. Fine, good luck to them.However, the programme showed film of the accomodation they had been provided with. It was not great, but it wasn't squalid either. Yet they were complaining about it and the fact they were expected to contribute £50 a week. There were also a large number of people who had not secured the jobs they had been told were available.Now, before anybody has a pop at me, I am not racist in any way and I am in favour of, and enjoy, a multi-cultural society. But my dream of migrating to France is delayed because the accomodation I am providing for my wife and I, is not ready yet and we need to know our finances are set up in such a way that we will be self-sufficient. It has not crossed my mind to move to France earlier and have somebody else provide for me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RumziGal Posted April 26, 2007 Share Posted April 26, 2007 [quote user="Mel "]But my dream of migrating to France is delayed because the accomodation I am providing for my wife and I, is not ready yet and we need to know our finances are set up in such a way that we will be self-sufficient. [/quote]Some people don't have that luxury though. You would still (I assume) have a reasonable standard of living if you stayed in the UK, and have no real need to move to France. When I see how hard some of those immigrants work, I can only assume that life must be pretty dire back where they came from.Sure, maybe they shouldn't complain, but that's just people for you, innit? [:)] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyh4 Posted April 26, 2007 Share Posted April 26, 2007 of course they complain.. To them 50 pounds is a month's wages (well nearly) back in Poland - so of course it seems like a great deal of money to pay for anything less than 4 * luxury.It's no different from me remembering that I used to be able to go out on a Friday night have more than enough to drink, a fish and chip supper and get the bus home for less than a pound. I just forget that then a fiver in the pocket was a weeks money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marina Posted April 26, 2007 Share Posted April 26, 2007 I thought one of the main points in the news story was the fact that they were paid below the minimum wage.Look at it from another viewpoint. Lots of British are seduced into moving to France by the promise of a better, stress-free, low-cost life. They find that whatever money they have soon runs out, and have great difficulty finding work. They accept jobs at or below the SMIC (or on the black market), jobs which would pay two or three times as much in UK, or even in France if you believe the official figures. They are not praised for taking jobs of a type and at a wage that others do not want, but are vilified for debasing the French wage structure and/or working au noir. I dont think life is dire enough in Britain to drive them away, though some do. So what attracts them? Is it just the fact that they can have a big house in the countryside? Are they still being misled by the media and the glossy magazines? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrCanary Posted April 26, 2007 Author Share Posted April 26, 2007 My goodness me, yes, some of the places they are leaving are dire to say the least. And had fate caused me to have been born there, I would definitely be making the effort to improve my lot. As such, I am not having a go at them for doing so. As I said in my original post, good luck to them.I guess what brasses me off is the expectation, portrayed so eloquently by the BBC, that not enough is being done to help them. What expectations of help did any of us have when buying property in France? None, I would suggest.Where any of us are born is an absolute accident and if we are strong enough to survive in any given environment, we have to grasp the nettle and do the best that we can. However, we must not lose sight of the fact that we are much more fortunate than others and perhaps we can all consider sharing our good fortune. May I suggest that sponsoring the life of a child in Africa (or something similar) is a good way of genuinely displaying our concerns about the bad fortune others have received through that accident of birth... PS - Marina, you make some very good points... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RumziGal Posted April 26, 2007 Share Posted April 26, 2007 Mel, here's an article from today's BBC site about this very thing http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6593321.stmI think the problem is that they are being treated SO badly. That's inexcusable whoever they are or wherever they come from."After three weeks, he received £97 for 20 hours' work in his first week, although £50 was deducted for accommodation costs. He also had money deducted for accommodation without it being shown on his payslip, which is illegal, and was forced to live in overcrowded accommodation."Good for you being financially comfortable and smug about your situation. You live in a country that has allowed you to achieve that. It's not all down to your personal cleverness.What was someone just saying about this forum being right wing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrCanary Posted April 26, 2007 Author Share Posted April 26, 2007 [quote user="RumziGal"]Good for you being financially comfortable and smug about your situation. You live in a country that has allowed you to achieve that. It's not all down to your personal cleverness.[/quote] I suggest you re-read my posts... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YCCMB Posted April 26, 2007 Share Posted April 26, 2007 Having seen the entire report last night, Mel, I think the spin you put on this is unbelievable. These people are being paid well below minimum wage and receiving "doctored" salary slips indicating that they aren't. Fine, they're being charged for accommodation, but they don't have any choice in the matter as the money is deducted from their wages before they receive it, leaving them no money to actually go and find any alternative for themselves. I have read, and re-read your post, and frankly I see absolutely NO parallel between your situation and that of these people. Will you be going to France to work and provide money for a better life for your family??? I don't think so. If, when you got to France, you did take a job, would you be happy if you'd worked 120 hours and then been paid for just 20 of these, at below the SMIC??? I don't think so.I work with Poles and other Eastern European expatriates (they're generally NOT immigrants, BTW) on a daily basis. They mostly work unsocial hours, and are paid rubbish wages. They're often exploited, sometimes even by major companies. Hotel chambermaids paid £1.80 (gross) per room to clean. You can, if you work really hard, clean 8 rooms thoroughly in a shift, so that's, gosh, nearly £124 a week before tax!!! For a 7 day week. One of my students recently got "promoted". They gave her a car, so she could get between cleaning jobs faster, and hence do more per day. How many Brits do you know who'd accept a "promotion" consisting of a car? No money, just a car. Oh, and in my current class, 70% of the students are married (and many are women) and have left spouses and young children back in Poland, whilst they come here to earn money to send home. Yes, they send money home and most are happy to live in shared houses in order to keep their costs down. Average rental prices for furnished houses in this area aren't cheap. You're probably talking a minimum of £600-£700 a month. So you work out how many people you'd need to get in there in order to make the rent, at the sort of wages they're getting. Oh, and the Leader of the local council proudly says when interviewed by the press that he's actually quite glad that so many Eastern Europeans are coming to this area, as they are contributing to the local economy, demanding absolutely NO assistance from the authorities, and the majority go straight into employment. They don't actually need your help, my help, or the BBC's help, come to that. Nor do they b*** well expect it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrCanary Posted April 26, 2007 Author Share Posted April 26, 2007 [quote user="You can call me Betty"]Having seen the entire report last night, Mel, I think the spin you put on this is unbelievable. These people are being paid well below minimum wage and receiving "doctored" salary slips indicating that they aren't. Fine, they're being charged for accommodation, but they don't have any choice in the matter as the money is deducted from their wages before they receive it, leaving them no money to actually go and find any alternative for themselves. I have read, and re-read your post, and frankly I see absolutely NO parallel between your situation and that of these people. [/quote]I confess I did not see the entire report and certainly missed the part about the illegal way of paying them - sorry!But 'spin'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RumziGal Posted April 26, 2007 Share Posted April 26, 2007 [quote user="Mel "] What expectations of help did any of us have when buying property in France? None, I would suggest.[/quote]"when buying property in France". There you go, you're affluent enough to go swanning off to a country of your choice and buy up property there. And if something goes wrong in France, you would of course refuse any State assistance, yes? Of course, nothing will go wrong, because you're so obviously completely in control of every aspect of your life. Must be nice. [:)] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russethouse Posted April 26, 2007 Share Posted April 26, 2007 I watched part of the program that Betty saw, too and there was a lot about gangmasters and the hold they have on many immigrants. First they lend them the money to come and then they pay wages below the minimum wage so they can never pay of the loan and are forever tied to their gangmaster......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrCanary Posted April 26, 2007 Author Share Posted April 26, 2007 Obviously the bit I saw this morning was enough to give me the wrong impression (hence my apology to Betty) because, having had some experience of gangmasters, they are vile traders in human misery and I would certainly say nothing to support their illegal activities.As for me being smug, taking hand-outs from anyone and wealthy enough to have a house in France, it is difficult to respond when I know nothing about my accuser... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blanche Neige Posted April 26, 2007 Share Posted April 26, 2007 If your are interested in this subject perhaps you should read TWO CARAVANS the recent novel by Marina Lewycka (author of A SHORT HISTORY IN THE UKRAINIAN). It gives a sometimes not too comfortable insight into the conditions met by these immigrant workers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RumziGal Posted April 26, 2007 Share Posted April 26, 2007 [quote user="Mel "]As for me being smug, taking hand-outs from anyone and wealthy enough to have a house in France, it is difficult to respond when I know nothing about my accuser...[/quote]I'm female, 5'7", and I have dark hair. Why do you want to know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrCanary Posted April 26, 2007 Author Share Posted April 26, 2007 Whereabouts in the world you live and what your interest is in France? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RumziGal Posted April 26, 2007 Share Posted April 26, 2007 I've been living in France for 7 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrCanary Posted April 26, 2007 Author Share Posted April 26, 2007 Are you glad you made the move? What do you miss about the UK? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RumziGal Posted April 26, 2007 Share Posted April 26, 2007 Work. Folk music. Spontaneity. Customer service. Opportunities. Beer. Variety. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anton Redman Posted April 26, 2007 Share Posted April 26, 2007 [quote user="RumziGal"]Work. Folk music. Spontaneity. Customer service. Opportunities. Beer. Variety.[/quote]If I was 30 years younger that list would just about hit it on the head for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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