London Terrorist Attack

[PaulT]

[quote user="Quillan"][quote user="PaulT"]

Now if memory serves me correctly the reason for invading Afghanistan or more specifically the Taliban was because it was hosting / supporting Al Qaeda (sorry spelling may be wrong) and for those who forget what happened in 2001 was when Americans discovered that the whole World did not love them. This was via the hijacking of four aircraft, flying two into the Twin Towers causing them to collapse and kill thousands and one in to the Pentagon. The other crashed in Pennsylvania. So it was not just a case of that good ole boy George saying 'yo Blair let's go and zap Afghanistan'.[/quote]

I remember Blair 'hot tailing it' over to the US to offer George his condolences although it was probably more to do with wanting to be seen on the world stage, rather like that bloke who keeps popping up outside the Houses of Parliament with a board proclaiming "Jesus Saves" every time somebody is interviewed. The two things I remember were Blair standing next to Bush just after 9/11 and Bush saying that they would be "going on a crusade against the Muslim terrorists". I remember thinking he and Blair forgot the Holy and to wear their white tabards with red crosses on the front. I believe to this day that neither Bush nor Blair understood why Muslims took offence at such comments. Neither can I understand how Blair became "Special peace envoy to the middle east", another of the great mysteries of life or was it Bush exercising a little humour.

[/quote]

Well, Blair is the biggest opportunist going - and yes, Special Peace Envoy, a bit like putting Harold Shipman in charge of an OAPs outing. Now George could prove a challenge in trying to come up with an IQ score.

And yes, the comments made perhaps prove that Georges IQ cannot be measured. Amazing that you can be as thick as two planks and become President of what thinks of itself as the most powerful country - oh, and a vast number of million dollars for the campaign and a number of backers who own companies who will do well out of contracts.

[YCCMB]

Goodness, how far this seems to have drifted from the topic it began with.

Two unhinged individuals brutally murdered an innocent man in cold blood in Woolwich. I honestly don't think a discussion about successive political leaders on several continents dating back over the last dozen or more years is going to help anyone, or change the fact of what has happened. No amount of dissecting who-did-what-to-whom throughout the Blair/Bush administrations will alter, or contribute to the facts of this tragic situation. What are you hoping to accomplish?

I doubt very much whether the family of this poor man would blame - or even think about - Bush, Blair, Cameron or anyone other than the two perpetrators of this heinous crime.

[sid]

[quote user="You can call me Betty"]Goodness, how far this seems to have drifted from the topic it began with.

Two unhinged individuals brutally murdered an innocent man in cold blood in Woolwich. I honestly don't think a discussion about successive political leaders on several continents dating back over the last dozen or more years is going to help anyone, or change the fact of what has happened. No amount of dissecting who-did-what-to-whom throughout the Blair/Bush administrations will alter, or contribute to the facts of this tragic situation. What are you hoping to accomplish?

I doubt very much whether the family of this poor man would blame - or even think about - Bush, Blair, Cameron or anyone other than the two perpetrators of this heinous crime.
[/quote]

Hear, hear!

[woolybanana]

One needs to be able to get at the people who put these two sad young up to committing murder as they bear a great burden of guilt too.

[YCCMB]

..and I am sure that MI5 are scanning the pages of Complete France for some piercing insights into where they should direct their investigations.[:D]

[Quillan]

It's just a shame that the UK press and public don't pay much attention to the 160 odd innocent children already killed in Pakistan by UK and US drones operated from Nevada and RAF Waddington. So far over 200 innocent children have also been killed in Afghanistan. As I said before all killing is wrong and we should all feel equally repulsed by any person beng killed. So far only around 24 actually known 'terrorists' have been killed by drones. To my mind all these civilians (I have not mentioned innocent women and men who have been killed) do not justify this type of warfare. Only now has Obama started to take action but the US 'warlords' are trying to torpedo him. Try Googling "how many women and children have  been killed by drones" for more information. It of course does not detract from this horrific murder but it might help give an insight as to part of the reason why these attacks happen. Try asking yourself how you would feel if one of your children was killed by a drone.

[YCCMB]

Again with the "insights"..

[idun]

And suddenly I am enraged by all this talk and the mention of drones. Yes, some innocents get killed, has there ever been a war when they have not.... and I am saddened and sorry about that.

 But that diverts from the massacres that are being perpetrated by muslims on muslims through out  the muslim world at the moment especially the women, in fact ESPECIALLY  the women! And thousand upon thousand are innocent!  A neutron bomb would have to be dropped for the 'infidel' troups to kill as many as the warring muslims, that are killing their own, at the moment.

And I cannot say that the muslims  are worse than christians have been either. All these loving religions, and  too many of their followers full of hate and willingness to murder in their 'faiths' name................... and the disgraceful mysogyny. 

[Quillan]

Exactly Idun so the UK does not have to stick it's oar in does it. Let them kill each other if they want but keep us out of it then the type of things like the London bombings and this poor soldier being killed would not have happened and nobody else will have to die in the UK by these sort of attacks. Some might try and argue that this would not be the case but then I point to Spain, one big bombing, they get their troops out and not another bombing since.

[PaulT]

[quote user="Quillan"]Exactly Idun so the UK does not have to stick it's oar in does it. Let them kill each other if they want but keep us out of it then the type of things like the London bombings and this poor soldier being killed would not have happened and nobody else will have to die in the UK by these sort of attacks. Some might try and argue that this would not be the case but then I point to Spain, one big bombing, they get their troops out and not another bombing since.[/quote]

So Q what is your insight into why the four planes in the US were hijacked and used to cause 3,000 deaths - the US only went in to Afghanistan after this.

I wonder if another reason for Spain pulling out was cost v lack of money.

Plus, various plots have been discovered before anything happened in the UK apart from the London bombings and this incident.

[PaulT]

[quote user="idun"]
 But that diverts from the massacres that are being perpetrated by muslims on muslims through out  the muslim world at the moment [/quote]

That comment takes me back to the early 70s when I commented to an Arab about the number of Israelis killed by Arabs and vice versa. The reply was that that was not the problem but the number of Arabs killing Arabs.

[Quillan]

[quote user="PaulT"]

[quote user="Quillan"]Exactly Idun so the UK does not have to stick it's oar in does it. Let them kill each other if they want but keep us out of it then the type of things like the London bombings and this poor soldier being killed would not have happened and nobody else will have to die in the UK by these sort of attacks. Some might try and argue that this would not be the case but then I point to Spain, one big bombing, they get their troops out and not another bombing since.[/quote]

So Q what is your insight into why the four planes in the US were hijacked and used to cause 3,000 deaths - the US only went in to Afghanistan after this.

I wonder if another reason for Spain pulling out was cost v lack of money.

Plus, various plots have been discovered before anything happened in the UK apart from the London bombings and this incident.

[/quote]

1 - American military in Saudi Arabia and American military aid to it. American support for Israel plus weapons that were used for killing Palestinians. Bin Laden came from there and in 2004 said these were the prime reasons for the attacks.

2 - No it was the Madrid bombing and the fact that Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero campaigned on pulling the troops out and that's what the people wanted and the prime reason why they voted for him. That is a matter of record, just try a bit of simple research.

3 - Yes quite right and very fortunate but clearly they were not 100% successful. I wonder how much all this costs and that if we were no longer involved the money could be more wisely spent on education and health for example. Alternatively perhaps the government could use the money to better support the injured troops which they don't currently do which is why there is such a need for charities like Help for Heroes. By the way are you aware that Jeremy Clarkson (and his wife) were also founder patrons of H4H and he spends a lot of time at Selly Oak hospital and Headley Court giving hands on help.

[idun]

I never understood how the british government got embroiled in Iraq. BUT I was so glad that Afghanistan was invaded, because the things that had been going on there for years were not specifically against humanity, worse, far worse,  against women. And Afghani women needed saving. Sadly, they have not been, but I wish sincerely that they had. And even though it has not worked out as I would have liked, then I'll never be sorry that we are there.

[Jay]

..........soldier was patrolling in uniform with two other

men as part of France's Vigipirate anti-terrorist surveillance plan when

he was approached from behind around 1800 p.m. and stabbed in the neck

with a knife.....

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/05/25/us-france-stabbing-idUSBRE94O09420130525