Please give me hope...

[alittlebitfrench]

[quote user="Pommier"]I think any rational person would say that there is a world of difference between the two titles!

[/quote]

Please explain rational person.

[mint]

[quote user="Hoddy"]I tried a pleasant reminder about not discussing other forums which didn't work ...........

This thread is already demonstrating why. I see no reason why an argument started on another forum should migrate here.[/quote]

Hear, hear, Hoddy!

And, for those of us who have never been on that other forum and do not know any of the personalities involved, this topic is dead boring.

It's like sitting at a dinner table between 2 people who know each other (but neither of whom know you nor you them) and who insist on talking (to each other naturally) above your head all through dinner from the l'entrée to coffee............[+o(]

Very bad manners.............

[YCCMB]

http://www.gagner-argent.org/travailler-au-black-pour-se-faire-plus-dargent-comment-faire

Nope, nobody in France has ever heard of it. Much.

[Gardengirl]

Like Mint, I'm bewildered by all of this, which seems pretty boring.

A new poster says he's read through all posts on this forum from years back, says he thinks he likes it and seems to be whipping up a storm - a bit like the storm raging outside here in the Gard. And what are these dark forces? Is that a paraphrase for anything black?

[alittlebitfrench]

[quote user="You can call me Betty"]http://www.gagner-argent.org/travailler-au-black-pour-se-faire-plus-dargent-comment-faire

Nope, nobody in France has ever heard of it. Much.[/quote]

To be really honest, I have never heard on the phrase 'working on the black' until I started reading French forums. I had no idea there was such a phrase in English. Then again I never new (hand on heart) there were so many British people living (or had lived) in France until two years ago. I honestly thought I was one of only handful people living and working in France. I have honestly only met about 5-10 British people living in France in 20 years....and they were all employed here in offices and such places. MY OH has only met 1 in a working environment. But to be fair I must be the only English person never to have been to SW France or the Dordogne or whatever. Nobody talks about large communities of English people on the news or on current affairs programs on TV. So how would I know ? Nobody talks about it in French circles. Sorry to be nieve.

It is like loads of people moved to France in 2003 and all moved back again. All under my nose. I missed all the fun on forums. That is why I like reading forums.....I am catching up. I don't like the French bashing mind you especially by people who choose to live a British life in France (which is fine if you like that kind of thing) but bash France at every opportunity because they don't understand the customs and culture..These people need to get out more.

[Chancer]

[quote user="mint"][quote user="Hoddy"]I tried a pleasant reminder about not discussing other forums which didn't work ........... This thread is already demonstrating why. I see no reason why an argument started on another forum should migrate here.[/quote]

Hear, hear, Hoddy!

And, for those of us who have never been on that other forum and do not know any of the personalities involved, this topic is dead boring.

It's like sitting at a dinner table between 2 people who know each other (but neither of whom know you nor you them) and who insist on talking (to each other naturally) above your head all through dinner from the l'entrée to coffee............[+o(]

Very bad manners.............


[/quote]

 

There used to be a couple of exhibistionist women that used this place to have private conversations publically, rather like the Picards when they eat in a restaurant that try to drown each others tables out competing to be heard by the remaining polite discreet diners , they went away when Facebook took off and its the only good thing that I have to say about Fessbook.

[idun]

ALBF

You have underestimated people who speak french and english. I speak franglais all the time with my family and friends from France who speak both languages. It is natural to us. And so, once we 'understand' one another we transfer sayings into the other language too.

ie me and my few english friends who speak french, say 'ski station'. None franglais speakers wouldn't say this and maybe not know what I mean, I have to say ski resort. And yet we franglais'ers all know what we mean.......

......... as we my franglais friends might say travaille au noir, but we could equally say working on the black, instead of say a govvy job, which it is known as in my part of England.

And on a french board, working on the black..or......travail au noir, is quite acceptable. I realise that not all like the franglais I use, tant pis, I do.

[mint]

[quote user="alittlebitfrench"]To be really honest, I have never heard on the phrase 'working on the black' until I started reading French forums. I had no idea there was such a phrase in English. Then again I never new (hand on heart) there were so many British people living (or had lived) in France until two years ago. I honestly thought I was one of only handful people living and working in France. I have honestly only met about 5-10 British people living in France in 20 years....and they were all employed here in offices and such places. MY OH has only met 1 in a working environment. But to be fair I must be the only English person never to have been to SW France or the Dordogne or whatever. Nobody talks about large communities of English people on the news or on current affairs programs on TV. So how would I know ? Nobody talks about it in French circles. Sorry to be nieve.

It is like loads of people moved to France in 2003 and all moved back again. All under my nose. I missed all the fun on forums. That is why I like reading forums.....I am catching up. I don't like the French bashing mind you especially by people who choose to live a British life in France (which is fine if you like that kind of thing) but bash France at every opportunity because they don't understand the customs and culture..These people need to get out more.[/quote]

I have no wish to give you a rude answer as you are new to the forum and, by and large, we are tolerant of "migrants" to our forum[:D]

By your own admission, you didn't understand the phrasetalked about but which is perfectly understood by most of us Brits and, as Pommier has pointed out, for us the phrase you quoted and the actual one published were two VERY different things.

So, also by your own admission, you have only ever met "5 to 10 British people living in France in 20 years"  I would suggest that it is dangerous to make assumptions, on such a tiny sample, about the half million or so of us Brits living (and working) here in France.

It is also certainly not the case that "loads of people moved to France in 2003 and all moved back again".  You did say however that that was the impression you got, you use that by no means universally loved word "like"[:D]  On reflection, I am certain that you would agree that that is an absurd thing to have thought or said.

I do agree that SOME immigrants to all countries have a problem with leaving behind life as they knew it in their own countries of origin and we could all understand the reason for that, can't we?  There are thousands of French people living in Kensington who send their children to French schools, visit the boulangerie daily and live a "French life" on UK soil.

As for French bashing, I don't think anyone sets out to do it as some sort of deliberate exercise to annoy the natives!  It's true that people can be unhappy with their lives wherever they live and start looking for factors outside of themselves on which to place the blame. There is also a lot of "British bashing" on here.  Have you not come across those sorts of France-good-Britain-bad posts?[;-)]

As you have said, you have never been to "SW France or the Dordogne or whatever"?  Could it be that it's you who should "get out more"?[:D]   

[Jonzjob]

"Have you not come across those sorts of France-good-Britain-bad posts?"

She must have done if she's read all of the forum [:-))] At least if the avatar with the big tongue is owt to go by it is a she??

[alittlebitfrench]

That is my little froglais.

I am a 'he' BTW.

[YCCMB]

I'm not sure I need to justify myself to anyone, or, indeed to present my bona-fides for the consideration of complete strangers, but I am not (by choice) a permanent resident in France, although I have been...like Idun, way back before forums, and indeed before the Internet.

Now, I spend several months each year in, yes, you guessed it, SW France, where I interact with people from a number of countries and cultures.

In my limited experience, French people are just as good at French-bashing as any Brits, and in fact generally better. And if I agree, I'll join in: like my very recent experience of a dearly-loved friend in my French village, admitted to hospital (aged95) in bad shape, kept waiting for 7 hours before being examined and discharged to her own home (alone) at nearly midnight with no care or help. She'd died within a week. You know what? Every French friend I have was bashing the health service hammer and tongs.

I'm slightly more inclined, in fact, to express my disapproval of people who doggedly insist that France is The Promised Land because they have chosen to live in an "expat bubble".

But that, right there, also explains a lot about why interaction on forums can be a minefield. Because I will disagree with people who live a different life, in a different place, with different experiences. That is a given, I'm afraid. However, I really don't expect them to change their views to suit me, any more than I'm prepared to change mine to suit them. At least I'm happy with my heart rate and blood pressure.

[Gardengirl]

I well remember UK-bashing at times on here; I love my life in France and love my life in England, could never quite understand such bitterness. Spending half of each year in each country works well for us, even if we arrived to huge storms in the Gard yesterday!

France-bashing, well, many French friends do a lot of that, particularly those who have lived elsewhere either in France or in another country, and of course everyone seems to complain about experiences at CPAM or the post office etc. There are also more complaints locally about the health service here by French friends.

[alittlebitfrench]

French bashing is a national sport for the French but you got to remember the French are very patriotic and very sensitive. They won't like to see outsiders bashing France on cultural matters. If French people are having a negative conversation about France I just keep quiet.

[idun]

 Over the years I have known a quite few english speakers in France, but was only ever long term proper friends with two couples and they did not live near me and we are still friends. We have a couple of other english speaking friends who are not british and they lived a little closer, but still some distance.

When I lived in France, I made french friends and they are still my friends and when I go back, I go and see them.

Not knowing british people in France is not hard depending on where one lives. And how I agree with Betty, the french are excellent at having a go at France and things french, especially their politicians, local and national!

I am looking forward to hearing all the gossip and rale'ing  next time I go back and meet up with my french friends.

I still do not know what 'hope' you are looking for. If you don't like a board, or a relationship or a country, move on........

......... must mention.........our move back to England was planned for retirement, but IF the UK leaves the EU we will move back to France, as we had perfectly good lives there.

[YCCMB]

See, there you go. I have a different experience. Your 20-odd years in France plays my nearly 40-odd years of living between France and the UK...Who's right? Who cares. It's a question of differing experiences and so on. Like saying "The French" is a bit misleading, because whilst I agree and recognise an underlying culture and characteristics, "The French" are as varied and disparate a bunch as "The English"

As a tiny example, contrast two close friends of mine in the same rural part of SW France

One is a family who have rarely moved from their roots, farmers whose large extended family all still live within about 10Km

The other is a family where the mother divorced her husband years ago, debunked to the Greek Islands with her five children, ended up marrying a Brit and moving back to France. Her children now live everywhere from Vietnam and Bali to Greece via La Rochelle and Lille, but the extended family (often nearly 30 in number) all return to the mother's home over summer from all corners of the globe. All are incredibly well travelled, fluent English speakers with a world view developed from living abroad, but they're all, still, very French.

Both families often engage me in French bashing conversations. Or indulge in French bashing when I'm around. It's just not a topic for sweeping generalisations or "one size fits all".

[alittlebitfrench]

[quote user="You can call me Betty"]See, there you go. I have a different experience. Your 20-odd years in France plays my nearly 40-odd years of living between France and the UK...Who's right? Who cares. It's a question of differing experiences and so on. Like saying "The French" is a bit misleading, because whilst I agree and recognise an underlying culture and characteristics, "The French" are as varied and disparate a bunch as "The English"

As a tiny example, contrast two close friends of mine in the same rural part of SW France

One is a family who have rarely moved from their roots, farmers whose large extended family all still live within about 10Km

The other is a family where the mother divorced her husband years ago, debunked to the Greek Islands with her five children, ended up marrying a Brit and moving back to France. Her children now live everywhere from Vietnam and Bali to Greece via La Rochelle and Lille, but the extended family (often nearly 30 in number) all return to the mother's home over summer from all corners of the globe. All are incredibly well travelled, fluent English speakers with a world view developed from living abroad, but they're all, still, very French.

Both families often engage me in French bashing conversations. Or indulge in French bashing when I'm around. It's just not a topic for sweeping generalisations or "one size fits all".[/quote]

I am not sure the point you are trying to make. There is never going to be a "one size fits all". How can there possibly be. Maybe perhaps it is just a question of manners. I personally would not write negative things about France or the French on an open forum or negative remarks about any country for that matter. Don't see the point. Certainly things that could been seen as having a racial connotation. You know there are habitual posters who do post a lot of negative remarks about France. A lot of them used to live in France and now it seems in the UK. I don't see the problem of taking them to task or certainly opening up a debate on why such a comment is made. You see, my kids are half French or mostly French on a day to day basis. They actually do think they are French and don't really understand the 'UK' bit yet. I think it is unkind for people to constantly say French tv is crap, French food is crap, French driving is crap, French paint is crap, French artisans are crap, Paris is full of black workers or working on the black. Dont buy French stuff, bring it over from the UK because everything in France is crap. At a personal level, I do find it rude towards my children who are at the end of the day French. The trouble is that when you try and debate the issues with these people they either call you a troll or report you. You can't win.

[YCCMB]

There we go again. Your post doesn't seem to be genuinely anything to do with your original question at all. It keeps on and on (or rather you do) coming back to the fact that you feel you were badly done by on another forum, and you want to bring that acrimony over here and keep picking at it. I assume that's because you are now banned and can't go picking at it over there.

What you missed out on whilst you remained totally oblivious to the existence of both forums(in general) and Brits in France is that in their heyday, these same forums were wall-to-wall crammed with people saying that everything in the UK was crap. In fact, it was very on trend to pepper your posts with the term "YUK" instead of "UK" which many found wildly amusing, or, failing that, to refer to "Broken Britain" at every possible opportunity.NOBODY, and I do mean NOBODY could make a negative remark about France without being taken to task. If you have, as you suggest, been reading this forum's historical posts, you will perhaps have noticed.

Today, I venture to suggest that many of the people still frequenting forums fall into two, or possibly three, distinct camps

- people only now contemplating a move to France, because the market for property is once again advantageous in terms of cheap prices (although my French friends - who may be deluding themselves - claim it is stabilising)

- people who would love to sell up and leave France for a myriad of reasons, from having decided they've now had their little adventure to being desperate to return to family and grandchildren, to being trapped in a country they no longer feel any love for, and having a property they can't sell

- people who still live in France, permanently or with second homes, who still have a fondness for the country but have also been there long enough to know the ropes, and have the experience to know what is and isn't crap about France.

Ten or more years ago, if someone popped up on here saying "I'm thinking of moving to France", anyone who tried to inject a note of caution was pilloried, however valid their concerns. And, trust me, when trying to help people who had never even set foot in France decide if it was the place for them, being pilloried for advocating caution was (IMO) a bit rich.

Today, if you look around for similar posts, caution is always advocated. By people who know, from personal experience, that there are plenty of things in France which are, if not exactly crap, then certainly no better than those same things in the UK.

Not one of those comments, post or suggestions is, or ever will be, meant as a personal affront to your children, let alone to you or your views.

And, to be honest, people of British origin come on Anglophone forums to vent about that sort of stuff because it's a release. I've posted links on here before to similar forums for French people living in the UK. and I can happily and categorically confirm that they're at it as well! I am sure that if I spoke Spanish, or Polish, I'd be able to find these same slightly ridiculous conversations going on between expats living in the UK from many different countries.

[woolybanana]

Great Bobo in a bucket, guys and girlies, is the weather bad or are you getting paid by the word? This thread is now a whole ball of yarn and has said almost nothing, and even the normally succinct Betty has been drawn in.

All it needs is for Norman to come along but I think he is too busy celebrating the rise and rise of Comrade Corbyn. Somehow I think Venezuela may be a better choice after his bunch of intellectualy threadbare Robespierres have finished.

Me, I am staying in France where there is good and bad as their is in PagoPago but I have thrown in my lot with this lot so there we are.

As for racism, the original topic of this twaddle, check out the French word for ghostwriter, as in Wayne Muddler wrote his own memoirs except he can't write.....

[Hoddy]

Thank you for an excellent summary of the situation Betty.

I am now going to lock this thead.