SaligoBay Posted October 7, 2004 Share Posted October 7, 2004 I've spent quite a while reading the FAQs, links, etc about all this marriage contract stuff, so thank you to everyone who has so patiently answered lots of questions.But I seem to be missing a relationship between changing a marriage regime and purchasing a house. What connects the two things? Is house-purchase time the only time you can change a marriage regime?We've been here 4 years now, in rented accommodation. Should we have done something about our marriage contract, or are marriage contracts only for house-owners?And what's the connection between marriage regime and inheritance tax? Someone told me today that the two have nothing to do with each other, but posts on here suggest that they are directly linked.Am I right in thinking there are only 3 marriage regimes: sans contrat, communaute universelle, and tontine?Thank you,SaligoBay the Thick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaligoBay Posted October 7, 2004 Author Share Posted October 7, 2004 Me again.Asked the notaire about it today, he said no problem. Because we got married in England, the English marriage contract is what rools OK.Sigh.SB the Unlucky. Just as well I have my electric Parmesan grater to cheer me up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackie Posted October 7, 2004 Share Posted October 7, 2004 Although we have no children, just two hungry cats as it is supper time, we were advised to go for communaute universelle before we came over and completed the house purchase. The notaire congratulated us on making the decision to do this as it would protect the survivor against paying possible taxes on the first death although the taxes might be higher on the second death. It is included in the wording of the house documents we received. We had this done in the UK in with a French notaire employed by a firm of solicitors in Portsmouth. We were going for tontine but we were advised that communaute universelle better suited our situation...............John in Dept 79 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ssc Posted October 7, 2004 Share Posted October 7, 2004 SB - The standard UK marriage contract assumes separation de biens.This means (subject to messy divorces) that you own what you own and TOH owns what he owns. As regards property, in the UK most house are purchased jointly so on the death of one partner the other inherits directly. If you have children they do not get a look in at this stage. THIS DOES NOT APPLY IN FRANCEI believe however that you may be liable to inheritance tax (unsure as never had enough money to worry about it)If you retain the UK marriage regime but reside in France/own French property then upon death of the other partner then you would normally inherit a share but so would any children you have. You would also owe inheritance tax at whatever rate/limits apply.The tontine clause that is sometime used gets around any children inheriting at the death of first partner but the surviving partner would still be liable for IHT.With CU it gets around both problems. IHT and children inheriting only becomes relevant when the surviving partner also dies. I believe that the IHT may then be a little higher.I think I have that all correct but I have no legal qualifications so I would suggest you take proper legal advice.Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tourangelle Posted October 10, 2004 Share Posted October 10, 2004 Tontine is not a marriage contract it is just a way to buy a house! There are basically 3 marriage contacts, communauté universelle, séparation des biens and la communaité reduite aux acquêts. And if you haven't signed up to one, you are considered to have the latter if you get married in France. This means that what you had before you got married is yours, and what you buy together is 50/50. But I think that what is often not pointed out on this site is that there is not 'a' marriage contract as such. If you go for séparation des biens for example, it does not mean that you have to divide everything. Basically so long as it is legal you can put what you want in the contract. The tree names are for convenience. For example, you can limit your séparation des biens to some 'biens' and not others, so long as it is well defined, and you don't disinherit a minor...I'm not an expert, but a French friend who is explained this all to me recently Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vanessavm Posted October 10, 2004 Share Posted October 10, 2004 reading your section i am now worried when i bought the hse in my name i was not married we married in july i have no children my husband has 3 what is situation re inheritance tax if i die vm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
letrangere Posted October 11, 2004 Share Posted October 11, 2004 The communaute universelle ensures no IHT due on the French property but how about other French and worldwide assets such as cash in bank or property in UK? Would tax still be liable on those? M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackie Posted October 11, 2004 Share Posted October 11, 2004 [quote]The communaute universelle ensures no IHT due on the French property but how about other French and worldwide assets such as cash in bank or property in UK? Would tax still be liable on those? M[/quote]How about those other assets if there is a CU, do they all pass to the survivor in the absence of a French will or does the CU only cover the property and not things like bank accounts, savings accounts, premium bonds, personal property etc?............................John in Dept 79 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tourangelle Posted October 11, 2004 Share Posted October 11, 2004 JackieMy understanding is there is no absolute standard cu, so it depends exactly what yours says for how it might apply to things other than property. Jane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackie Posted October 11, 2004 Share Posted October 11, 2004 [quote]Jackie My understanding is there is no absolute standard cu, so it depends exactly what yours says for how it might apply to things other than property. Jane[/quote]Thanks for coming back on this Jane and that does raise certain concerns so I think we had better have a closer look at this one.........John in Dept 79 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Millymollymandy Posted October 12, 2004 Share Posted October 12, 2004 Our Communauté Universelle states quite clearly it only covers our "biens" in France. That is, the house, the car, what's in the bank and our belongings. In the event of divorce, everything is split 50/50. There is no Inheritance Tax to pay when one spouse dies - the other inherits tax free and the house won't go in part to our in-laws (we don't have children). I presume when the surviving spouse dies, the house would go back up the line to any parents, brothers or sisters still alive - who will have to pay a lot of Inheritance Tax. Now I don't think any of our family in the UK would appreciate being lumbered with a property in France they would have to sell in order to pay the inheritance tax, but I don't see any way out of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackie Posted October 12, 2004 Share Posted October 12, 2004 Quote "Our Communauté Universelle states quite clearly it only covers our "biens" in France. That is, the house, the car, what's in the bank and our belongings." The only relevant reference I can find in our paper work relating to the house is this: "mais actuellement soumis au regime de la communaute universelle en vertu d'un acte de changement de regime matrimonial recu par Me (Name) notaire a (Place) (Grande-Bretagne), le (Date), demure joint et annexe aux presentes apres mention." The first part before this section goes on about us being married earlier under British law. Sorry about the missing accents! There is no other indication that this regime has variations in what is covered.The Change to marriage regime document on translation says: "The couple confirms that the French marriage settlement based on joint ownership of property within article 1256 of the French Civil Code will apply to the whole of those rights and interests that THE COUPLE holds in France and worldwide and notably in England."My question is what about joint accounts etc held in the UK, are they covered by this as well, as they seem to be. What about individually owned assets held in the UK, are they covered by the CU or only by our UK wills. What about individual, not joint, accounts held in France. Do they fit the term THE COUPLE or are they not covered by the CU. What I am trying to find out is do we need to make French wills as well to protect each other on the first death and our selected charities should we both die at the same time?..............John in Dept 79 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boiling a frog Posted October 12, 2004 Share Posted October 12, 2004 Depends, are you resident in France if so then all your assets come under French inheritance law and you need to make a French will as the UK will is no longer validRe if both parties die at the same time.If the authorities are unable to determine who died first (such as a plane crash) then the older person is presumed to have died first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tourangelle Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 http://money.msn.fr/impots/impots/actualites/conseils/sommaire/argentadeux07/default.aspThis link explains how different clauses can be put in marriage contracts to modify them. Sorry it is all in FrenchJane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Please sign in to comment
You will be able to leave a comment after signing in
Sign In Now