How important is a university education?

[0BRIAN WOODHEADI,m here in franceddMMyyyy0Falseen-USI,m here in franceTrue]

Cjd,did your french wife and french sprog give you the answer,if your spog is indeed from your loins,would you ask it to write the whole equation of how one gets E=mc2.

LVV,unemployment is down to an all time low re the working populous,so why should some one else pay for your kids passage through further education?

[RobS]

one method that has been used to keep unemployment down over the last decade or so is to increase futher education to almost 50% of school leavers. When I was at school, only 10% or less went on to university. If that figure was similar today, then where would the additional 40% of 16 year olds find employment??

[0BRIAN WOODHEADI,m here in franceddMMyyyy0Falseen-USI,m here in franceTrue]

Same place as the 2,000,000 or so people who claim incapacity benefit.

 

[Tresco]

Tesco,what would make you strike up a conversation in a french street with anyone

Blimey outcast, you're a bit picky aren't you. It wasn't me that introduced the subject about conversations in the street anyway, if you read again. However, what about conversations at a bus stop, or the doctor, dentist etc. I have had some great impromptu chats in these sort of places, French and English, about some pretty serious matters.

or lets say I think its cold and you think its warm,I understand that you are in 17,qui ou non?

If you and I met at a bus stop, and started chatting, which is doubtful as you probably have a great big BNP sign pinned to your forhead, we would probably have our backs turned to eachother in about 30 seconds.

By the way, it's cold and rainy here in 17 (that's your cue to say you have been on the terrasse in 30% all day, and your nose has been burnt clean off!!!!!!).

 

Riddle me this, outcast, with your philosophy, why should I pay for your childrens education and health care???????

tresco

 

 

[Cjb]

[quote]Cjd,did your french wife and french sprog give you the answer,if your spog is indeed from your loins,would you ask it to write the whole equation of how one gets E=mc2. LVV,unemployment is down to an...[/quote]

Why go for something so easy to explain when one could simply ask whether she understands one of your posts?? Despite working with children for many years your level of literacy is something new to me!!

[RobS]

[quote]Same place as the 2,000,000 or so people who claim incapacity benefit.[/quote]

so you are saying that thse youngsters would be getting state benefits then? So by going to Uni and having me pay part of the sum involved, means that I'm actually saving taxpayers money?

[Miki]

Hi Lennon (I know who you are !!)

No I don't mind waiting. If the "great one" says he wants to win it by ourselves without help, then of course we will help you ("WE" did you like that !!)

1-0 at H-T to the gooners

Full time still 1-0, there you are Lennon. You owe us a favour now

[Tresco]

This is one of the mosy disjointed 'conversations' i have ever had here.

Aaaanyway. HEY, to whoever it was. A 2:1 isn't average

Students today, the majority that is, have to work for wages while studying, much like American students of middle or lower income parents. This was not the case 15,  20 or 30 years ago.

Many people now, who get a 2:1, 2:2 or a third, have had to work to support themselves, so that would be 20 or 30 hours a week additional to their compusory lecture/seminar hours. Some of them..........well I don't understand how there are enough hours in the day to do what they do

Some really clever, and hard working people......they could be from poor families, or wealthy families that refuse to suport them while they go through University, get 1'sts 

The majority of people on incapacity benefit are unable to work, by todays terms. Yes, there are some scroungers, clever scroungers. No one could deny that. For those who want to work, invariably they cannot, because most emplyers cannot afford to, (or cannot be arsed to) employ someone who needs even the slightest differential in terms of access.

tresco

 

[Charley]

heres a different example for you to study.. I'm not sure that Im a typical case but its at least something to look at in a modern educational context,

I studied for a music degree ( I was encouraged to choose a subject that I was interested in plus slighty good at). Like alot of kids I worked through my degree to pay for it ( in my case restaurants, shops and selling grass).

Well hooray and joy above joy I got my degree (I know it's some version of a first but I can't be bothered to call the relevent people to find out, whats it going to prove?)_

I think all the spitting thats going on about the uni of life VS eduction is alway going to happen.(probably someone is going to say that my spelling and grammer is terrible but hey ho).

The main thing for me though is.... I had a really great time, I made lots of friends who will always be around for me and no matter what people say about degrees..its still bloody hard too get one and Im happy/proud to get there.

So here it is, Im in France trying to bash walls to bits rather than writng crappy comercial music .I guess you take ya choices. mine is a good one for me . My parents supported me in my paths. but im still no better off than when I moved to france.

I dont think I really have a clear point to make here. apart from the fact that your kids are doing to do what they think is best and there are so many crappy degrees to choose from. so really you have to let it all roll and see what happens.

Charley xxx

[Ian Hoare<br>All the best<br>Ian<br>La Souvigne Corrèze<br>http:www.souvigne.com]

Hi,

I'm ignoring all the bickering - and am going to try to answer the question.

I don't think a university degree as such is as highly regarded in France as it is in the UK. That said, an appropriate professional qualification is absolutely essential - for a young person. I think there's a fundamental difference in the two countries' approaches towards higher education. In the UK, professional non degree qualifications are seen as  being somehow cheating, while that's not true here.

What I meant in my reference to the age of the person is this. In France, they pay great heed to the dossier that you can amass to support your job application. When someone's young, they don't HAVE much professional experience under their belts, so just about all they can offer is academic qualifications and various training courses they have been on. As one gets older, so one's success in getting jobs and doing well at them becomes more important than paper qualifications, though in France, I suspect that more jobs are tied to those qualifactions no matter what age you are, than in the UK.

I hope you don't mind that I've gone rather wider afield than the scope of your question, but I suspect that your question was somewhat skewed by your being British.

What I really don't sympathise at all with, is the somewhat truculent attitude by many British people without degrees towards those who do. I know of no other country in the world (with the possible exception of the USA) where this kind of sillness exists. I suppose it's a reaction to the equally silly attitude that equates value as a person with high academic qualifications.

[letrangere]

I have known people who possessed strings of degrees but have been hard put to describe as "educated".

Oh, absolutely, particularly if you specialise.  Many of those involved in research, especially scientists, can have a very narrow field of education.

But to answer Chris's question, surely it's almost imperative in France?  Most of my French friends' childrens have huge problems finding jobs even with their university education, surely it would be impossible without?  And isn't it the same in the UK nowadays?  Waiting for a bank to open when I was last in London, I was browsing in an employment bureau window on Victoria Street.  They were advertising jobs for a Civil Service grade, Executive Officer.  When I was at school in the '70s this was one of the jobs that people who weren't going on to higher education were steered towards.  Yet in 2004 it was interesting to note that applicants had to be "graduates". 

M

[Pangur]

I moved to London as a graduate and certainly a degree is a necessity for many if not most white collar jobs in London.  As another poster pointed out, it's not the subject of the degree that matters - getting one is (or should be) proof that you've shown you can process, analyse and disseminate information, skills that are required in most white collar jobs.  In fact, to get your CV noticed these days, you need a 2.1 and a postgrad.  Anything lower is just bog standard.  I think it's pretty much accepted that a degree is generalist - if you want academic specialisation in any subject, you need to take it to a higher level.

A degree isn't necessary to be successful or happy, but if you want a white collar job with promotional prospects, it certainly is in the UK.  Of course a few very talented hardworking people get through and there are some exceptions (e.g. city traders) but by and large, it's necessary.

In countries with higher levels of unemployment, employers can afford to raise the qualifications bar.  If you've got two 24year olds with no experience, it's to be expected that the one with more certificates gets the job, even if their certificates have no relevance to the task.

[Deby]

Education broadens the mind, lifts peoples horizons.

I take it Outie had no education and obviously this is why his mind is so narrow.  The sad thing is if Outie did have a little bit of 'education' he would probably have achieved more in life.  He will never know this because he is stuck staring at the same horizon.

Deby

[0BRIAN WOODHEADI,m here in franceddMMyyyy0Falseen-USI,m here in franceTrue]

Oh dear deby your poor little lost lamb,I am stuck no where and the horizon I see is the med each morning.So if I had an education I would be stuck with a massive mortgagewhich I am not ,job insecurity,(which I do not have) etc can not be bothered to go on,always thought it was travel that broadens the mind,never mind,nanny is coming to tuck you in.

 

[Deby]

Judging by your poor response I believe my comments are even more justified.  You know little and have proved this wholeheartedly with your narrow-minded comments.

A little knowledge is sometimes dangerous.

Deby

[0BRIAN WOODHEADI,m here in franceddMMyyyy0Falseen-USI,m here in franceTrue]

Oh dear,narrow minded comments,which ones do you define as narrow minded,oh yeah anything that you do not like,chateau what?I owe loads of money de clerac,a chateau is a posh name.How much do you owe on it,and if one maybe so bold when will you own it and not the bank.

 

[Deby]

You see Outie, what have you resorted to doing now - throwing your toys out of your pram are we?

Have you ran out of constructed comments/points - oops sorry you don't know how to conduct yourself, never mind I will just put it down to your narrow mindedness
Deby

[0BRIAN WOODHEADI,m here in franceddMMyyyy0Falseen-USI,m here in franceTrue]

Once again and as many times as paxman if you like,which narrow minded comments,do you or the bank own the money pit,sorry chateau.

 

[Deby]

Deby

[0BRIAN WOODHEADI,m here in franceddMMyyyy0Falseen-USI,m here in franceTrue]

 

[Cjb]

Come on ,Outie (the only yachtie to ever pay his taxes!!), surely everyone knows that one has to be on the Côte D'Azur to truly appreciate the Med!! I'm here on the Côte D'Azur!! A bit out of your league perhaps??

Job security? I didn't think you were working?

[Tresco]

Hey Outcast you have beaten Albi for the saddest, nastiest, meanest post, and in one day.

Just tell us, so we can be clear, is there anyone who is ok by you, who is not Nick Griffin (BNP)?

tresco

Edited by me, at 22.40, due to how many threads Outcast was being a t***** in. It got me confused, there were so many. That's my excuse anyway, quite a good one I think

tresco

[letrangere]

I didn't think you were working?

Chris, not working is possibly the most secure form of "employment" in certain countries.   At least until nasty people like me bring up the unpleasant subject of Brits moving to France and scrounging for living....

M

 

[0BRIAN WOODHEADI,m here in franceddMMyyyy0Falseen-USI,m here in franceTrue]

Tesco,did you go to uni or is that why you have as you posted ,you have to rely on your other half to be here in france,really tesco you are a little coy in the personal details dept,I mean what do we know about you,not much,nice but dim.Twice you have posted the name of Mr. Nick Griffen maybe you are unwell or still a little stressed out but there is a thread called "who will you vote for",post it on there and he and his party could be rightly be discussed.

 

[Swissbarry]

This thread has now degenerated to the point where some of the postings are just downright nasty, and have nothing to do with France, or the original topic, or civilized discussion. 

Whatever happened to the Forum's Code of Conduct: "Users must not post messages which...are insulting, abusive or defamatory to others in any way"?  Has this been cast aside?

I've been casting around for a tactful way of saying this, and I think perhaps the best thing would be if a certain member were castigated, or maybe even cast out, before I - and others - become any more downcast.