First Steps

[shukra]

Hi there, I’m new to this forum so apologise if this thread has been up before.

Basically I’m not too sure how to go about relocating to France and what requirements I must fulfil.

I’ve done the looking for property bit!!! Like most British people looking to move to France, I have the dream of a beautiful home with some farmland, chickens etc, renting rooms in my guesthouse and providing organic breakfast!!! So I’ve got the dream, I’ve even got some cash! I’m just unclear if I could become a citizen and how to go about it all, so any advice please.

Big big thanks in advance.

Shukra

[Val_2]

You have some cash, well I hope its a lot because believe you me, unless you have a job to come to or a bottomless pit of money you won't survive very long and renovations on old property here is extremely expensive these days. France is not a cheap country these days despite the wonderful TV image it is given and you cannot just turn up and expect help when the going gets tough like you can in the UK. To be a citizen you must have lived here for five years or more(check with the embassy in London),be fluent in written and spoken french and have to take an exam and why do you want to change your nationality anyway before you even know if you can live here for the rest of your life - seems extremely drastic. I believe in telling it how it is,warts and all and no one can survive here living on gîte rentals,chickens and fresh air these days, it does not pay the bills which arrive thick and fast and you have your health to pay for here too which you probably don't even think about in the UK. You really need to perhaps rent a place for six months to see how you settle down and then buy a property in a region that will suit you but don't rush headlong into things without thinking a few years down the line first.

[shukra]

Ouch, that was a truth slap, but what i needed! opps didn’t mean citizen, just being aloud to live in the country. I.e. having a job to bring in income tax etc. Have enough to purchase and renovate and have English builders etc to use, but the main thing for me would be to be able to make a living at it. Though as you have said you cant make a living from running a B&B so maybe i should put it on hold until i have more of a bottomless pit of cash!!

[Owens88]

Shukra

Are you a British national, or a 'citizen' of any other eu country ?

If so the processes are simpler than for a non eu perosn. However teh 'truth slap' you refer to applies to everybody (smile).

Good luck.

[Val_2]

Shukra - my reply was intended to be hard hitting. I've seen so many come and fail because they had the wrong idea about living here simply from watching the TV and thinking all is rosy here compared to the current UK. If you mean resident and you are an EU national then you have no worries and do not need papers to proove your income except if you are retired and taking out medical cover via the CPAM. When I read your thread it was very much like many others in that,moving here seems so easy and fashionable to do currently and taken very lightly when indeed it is a huge thing to do and a wrench as well if you are leaving family behind. Read through some of the previous threads about people coming AND why some are now going back and glean some info there but I really do sincerely wish you luck in whatever you decide - just don't burn your boats until you have the life sorted.

[sue702]

You can make a living from B&B and/or gites but you have to have your business plan clear. There is a good book I read something like "Running a B&B in France", I got it from Amazon and it sets out in no nonsense terms what is involved in running a B&B and how to make money at it. The warnings are rightly given because far too many people come here thinking that they can make a living easily and that life is more or less free, you wouldn't think you could do it in the UK so don't think you can do it here!

Good luck in your venture

Sue

[shukra]

I am under no illusion that life is a bed of roses. This is not a whim, its something I’ve wanted to do for years and now I finally have the money. I am doing it alone so although it may be hard in some ways, it is only myself I have to worry about. I have travelled all over France for months at a time, and although I am well aware that a holiday is not the same as the mundane facts of life, I am sure it is the country for me. So I am off to purchase said book and others that may be of help. These enquires are just the beginning of a long process before I decide to move and I thank you all for your words of wisdom.

Shukra

[Fritz]

Recently I’ve known of two local Brit couples who have had to sell up and leave for other climes. Basic reasons seem to have been lack of financial resources and failure to get decent jobs.

But it’s not just money. Some Brits never learn enough French. They often attain a basic level to get by but it never improves. This limits your social life and makes it even more difficult to find work. Also some Brits have never learnt to adapt to the French way of life. They continually grumble about French workmen, lack of customer service in shops, bureaucracy and the food. I think the successful expat has just got to accept how things are here in France and stop banging on about ‘how it is (was) in England’.

So my golden rules to a successful move to France are:

1)      Move because you want to move to France – not because you’re escaping problems in the UK – failed relationships, failed businesses, the taxman etc.

2)      Learn the language.

3)      Learn the language.

4)      Learn the language.

5)      Have enough cash to keep you going for at least two years without working.

6)      Double up all of your (and the builders) estimates.

7)      Relax, don’t worry and don’t get hassled when things don’t seem to going well.

8)      Do your own research, try not to rely too much on others.

9)      Learn about French plumbing techniques.

10)  Learn basic French electricity techniques

 

If you're having relationship problems, never, ever move to France with a partner/wife/husband in the hope that a new adventure will bring closer together. It will probably do the opposite.

[P]

Hope you do not mind me joining in.

We are hoping to relocate in 2007, early retirement and purchasing in 2006.

Cannot agree more on the question of language and we would like to find somewhere where the Brits are thin on the ground so that we have to integrate and learn. We are starting evening clsses in September to improve our school French. Often think white Brits are very hypocritical - moans about Asians coming into the UK and not adapting yet when they move abroad they create their little Britains.

There was mention of lots of bills - what is the increase in these compared to the UK?

[andyh4]

Hello P

 

good luck, we also sought out a spot away from other Brits., and having found a small commune of 300 souls and bought through an agent who said he only rarely saw any Brits, were amazed to find 2 other British families already living there - and another has joined since.

Anyway all nice people and the dream has not been spoiled.

With regards to bills I am not the best to advise in any detail - and anyway it will depend on your lifestyle and where you live.  But from the prespective of one who has not been living in the UK for 10 years:

 

Utilities - don't expect to pay less than the UK and probabaly more.  For water you will pay twice once for actual usage (water is metered as a matter of course) and again for the same volume to be cleaned for disposal - unless you have a fosse septique - even if you used half for watering the garden (but not in summer since this will be prohibitted - not only the UK has hosepipe bans).  Heating bills will be low to non existant in the summer (usually) but remember that most of France is much colder in winter than the UK (last 2 winters we have had -10 to -16 and last year a daytime high of -8) - so overall your fuel bills may still be be high.  Outside of larger connurbations gas is rare so heating/cooking is likely to be electricity, wood or oil.  With the exception of wood 'lecky and oil are currently not the cheapest of fuels.

Local taxes - vary enormously and can be as high as the UK or higher depending on where you are now and where you go in France.  They can also be cheap - but I wonder for how much longer.

State taxes are high and you will be taxed on worldwide earnings.  8% goes immediately for basic health cover (think of it as part of your National Insurance) on top of that you should take out additional insurance to top up from the basic cover.

Car insuarnce - might be cheaper, but you will be paying motorway tolls on top if you do much long distance driving.

House and content insurance - probably similar to UK.

 

This is all very broad brush and as I said will depend on your lifestyle now and in the future;  but my basic rule of thumb would be to say expect costs to be overall about 5-10% more than the UK - and any that aren't should be viewed as a bonus.

[Teamedup]

This might sound like a stupid question but why if you don't want to live near other brits. And lets face it if property prices are low, then there may well have been at least interest, why don't you go and chat them up in the Mairie where you fancy living. They would know.

And yes that means having some french, but if coming to France is a long term goal then one of the first things is to start learning the language rather than looking at property or where you fancy, as french is spoken everywhere in France.  Gifted people will pick it up quickly, untalented souls like me take a long time so the sooner the better.

[andyh4]

Seems P has withdrawn his entry so the thread looks a little disjointed now - maybe (s)he didn't like the answer that cost of living is likely to be more than the UK.

 

On that basis I will assume TU's question was aimed at me and not P.

Why avoid the Brits:  well we have been ex-pats in Germany for 10 years and there is a very strong ex-pat community.  Result is that we have integrated into the ex-pat community rather than the local community.  Nothing wrong with that and they are good friends and the community works well, but the next move to France is intended to be premenant (whatever that is supposed to mean) and we felt we wanted to integrate into the local community - the risk of a strong ex-pat community would be a repeat of the current situation.

 

Why not ask the Marie?  Good point but it never occurred to us at the time - anyway all the evidence was that our region was unkown to the British - until 2 Gentlemen with the initials N and N turned up on TV 2 days before we set off on the house hunting trip.  Added to which, although I read French well, my aural and oral French was then woeful and is only now slowly improving (bear in mind French is my third langauge and we Brits don't do languages do we??)

[P]

Andy

I have not withdrawn it (and I am a he - Paul) but when I posted it I received a message that there was a server error and now my original posting always goes to the end.

My reason for avoiding an area with an ex-pat community is the ame as yours - to make us integrate with the natives.

Paul

 

[Missy]

[quote]Recently I’ve known of two local Brit couples who have had to sell up and leave for other climes. Basic reasons seem to have been lack of financial resources and failure to get decent jobs. But it’...[/quote]

Well said Fritz!!

But the bit at the bottom (about failed relationships and never ever move with partner etc.. in the VAIN HOPE that it will be better!) should be commandment No10. Perhaps even commandment No2!!

If only more fools would understand these absolute basics and they would be very happy fools indeed!

 

[Missy]

If some of you don't want to settle near other Brits just ignore them!

I am French and live in the middle of Wales. Some 20 miles away there is a University town with a considerable pack of French people sort of satelliting around the hub of the academia world.  I have ignored the lot of them for the last 25+ years and not felt any pang to join them...

I have instead learnt basic welsh and integrated in my local community, not with any purposeful intent of integrating in the least. I just left it to people's curisioty to come and ask me if I could do this for the primary school, for the carnival, join the local Chamber of Trade, for this, for that...etc... when they had no one else to ask. And I joined if I felt in anyway inclined to do so...

I get on very well with my neighbours and the new comers to this area, they are none the wiser that I am a native or not! 

Only that my accent is apparently any of these : South-African, Australian, Canadian, Scandinavian, East-European!!!!

 

[P]

Congratulations missyetbut. We have English friends who moved to Wales last year, and live in a strong Welsh speaking area in the south. We were staying with them at the weekend and they received the prospectus for the local adult education classes which contained a vast number of courses on the Welsh language. To my question 'are you going to enrol' the emphatic answer was 'no'. I suppose the typical English reaction - if they want to speak to me they will have to in English. Whilst those who speak Welsh do also speak English they will not have problems, what a sham that they have are not following your example and trying to integrate more.