Smoking Ban - What do the French Think?

[TWINKLE]

I'm SO sorry I upset you Ian talking about MY fathers death - how inappropriate of me to talk about people dying of passive smoking on a thread with the title 'Smoking Ban'. 

What on earth was I thinking of?

Do you honestly think that an artist thinks of what he/she does as a "career choice"?  I didn't think through anything - I just did it because that is what I am here for and that is who I am!

A law is to be put into force banning people from smoking in public places BECAUSE THERE IS A SERIOUS RISK TO PEOPLES HEALTH.  If it is accepted by the owners of the bars, restaurants and clubs where I sing many buisinesses will go under and I won't have anywhere to work during the winter. 

However, I will NOT consider another 'career choice' because I am a singer and that is what I do.  If I have less work then so be it.

I would HATE to have a 'job' which  turned out to be "not as good as you thought"

[Most Holy]

[quote user="Deimos"]To me smoking seems only one of many habits that cause problems. At least with smoking the effects are limited to specific rooms and people who don't like it just don't go in those rooms !! As others have pointed out e.g. drinking can cause abusive behaviour outside the "room", driving dangers to others, etc.

Ian[/quote]

Actually, drinking is already controlled by a number of laws or regulations: you can't be drunk and drive, drunk and disorderly, etc. If you're drunk, for example, and you throw up on someone, or spit on them, you'll incur a fine (and possibly a punch on the nose). So your analogy doesn't quite work.

Following your logic, I should be free to throw up on any smoker I meet without suffering the consequences.

[julia]

If you go into Flunch resto, there are smoking and no smoking areas, brilliant. The no smoking is upstairs , so it is a family resto and you have to help your kids upstairs with their tray of food unless you want them to eat some smoke with their meal.  The smoking area is right next to the food area, the ice cream bar and the kids play area.

And before someone says I have a choice to go in or not, yes I do and now I do not go there.

I too feel that the French havn't taken on board the enormity of the No Smoking policy , the drink driving rule is a farce, just watch the clientelle leaving any bar or resto or even their friends homes in small villages at the weekends , getting in their cars to drive 15ks home. I count my blessings that I am not on the road when I see our local resto emply out!

[Deimos]

Twinkle wrote: I'm SO sorry I upset you Ian talking about MY fathers death - how inappropriate of me to talk about people dying of passive smoking on a thread with the title 'Smoking Ban'."

Sorry, must have expressed myself badly. You did not upset me, but I thought as it was a specific personal thing (to yourself) that it was inappropriate for me to discuss that aspect of your post.

I don't actually smoke myself but do think it is for the owners of the bars, restaurants, etc. to decide what they want to allow in their establishments. I have no problem with them deciding to either ban or allow smoking, drinking, burgers, etc. - its is their place, their decision. We all make decisions as to whether or not we should go into each place.

For example, UK obesity rates are now average 23% of the population. In the UK, 25% of the population smoke (both 2003 figures). Both have pretty serious health implications.

2003-4 figures estimate £1.5bn per year to treat diseases caused by smoking (estimate from an anti-smoking organisation so there may be a risk that this errs to the high side ?), against which Treasury got £8bn (excl VAT) from taxes.

Ian

[TWINKLE]

So if we're comparing smoking with drinking then consider this.

When you inhale a cigarette it produces smoke which is blown into the air wherever the person inhaling happens to be.  Anyone passing by this residue will also inhale some of the smoke.

When you drink...let's say - a pint of lager, the bladder fills up and you have to urinate.  Would you urinate your residue over a passer-by?

Ludicrous isn't it?

[TWINKLE]

Above post was NOT a reply to your last post Ian - we were posting at the same time.

[Deimos]

Twinkle wrote: "When you drink...let's say - a pint of lager, the bladder fills up and you have to urinate. Would you urinate your residue over a passer-by?"

It happens (). (Appreciate you were not responding to my post).

Ian

[Miki]

My thoughts of smokers ENFORCING their cancer forming habits on others

would not be printable. Like Twinkle I have seen my Uncle, eldest

Sister and four very close friends die through this awful illness.

Why do people think it is  OK to go around smoking in enclosed

rooms and deny others smoke pollution free air to enjoy a meal or a

drink ?

I never go and pour urine on anyone, I do try go and do it in the

correct place even though peeing is the most natural thing in the

World, I don't see poeple crapping in a bar to allow people step in

it. Far fetched ? Yes of course, just like trying to bring drinking

into the debate, as an excuse to allow smoking. Smoking is on its own,

it is a debate whether one thinks smoking should be allowed in a public

place, no bringing in other factors. Friends of ours that smoke, NEVER

smoke in our house, we haven't had to ask them. For their part, they

smoke in their house and we accept it but it is not a public place.In

public places,  they do stick to the correct procedure, as is

their etiquette. What is wrong with that, thinking of others is 

PC is it then ? What a load of bollocks !

I won't put any more as this argument will simply be between those who

care and those couldn't who give a shit about who they, or others harm

through smoking.

My ideal answer would be to mix up the posts of Twinkle, Most Holy,

Possum Girl, Julia and Chris and anyone else in fact who believes in

the new regulations of 2007 & 2008, it is long time to get the banning of smoking  in restos and

public places banned.

For those who say we are not forced to go in, no we are not and in fact

it never stops me, I need to have some fun on occasion, I really want

to drink with friends and if it means being in a smoke ridden room, so

be it but something strikes me as very wrong that we must all go down

with the possibility of cancer just so people can say it's a free

country...that is the biggest heap of crap, to ever be used as a reason

to allow smoking. That being the case, why is smoking banned from

buses, trains, libraries and many more

places...........................Oh yes I know, smoking and drinking go

hand in hand, so we must allow it to continue.

I don't allow it in my B&B or Gîte, if that means I lose business,

tant pis, that's how it goes but one will not lose customers, only the

fear of losing them is the worry but as ever, as they say, you have

nothing to fear but fear itself on that score!

[julia]

Lets just put a bit more into this equasion, Smokers usualy end up with a cough, they then also have to get rid of what is making them cough. So not only are they poisoning us with their smoke they are then spitting out their phlem and putting more germs into the air.

My mother in law died through passive smoking, she enjoyed Bingo.

My father inlaw died from lung cancer, he smoked far too many per day.

My dad suffered TB and has been left with a shaddow on his lung will tell anyone off if they spit or smoke near him.

finaly my mum died of pneumonia and suffered from Chronic Astma all her life, She was really restricted where she could go, no bars, clubs or even the cenema due to the smoke effects on her.

I have told my children that if I ever smell smoke on them , their lives will not be worth living.

[Quillan]

My point was and is why can't smokers and none smokers be segregated properly in differnet rooms not the same room at different ends. We have the freedom to smoke or not smoke and I do respect those that don't smoke and those that dislike smoking. I don't smoke in non smokers houses because it the right thing to do. I have one or two friends who really hate smking and when they visit I smoke outside. I could take the attitude 'it's my house' etc but I don't. It's called 'doing the right thing' I believe.

Another issue is the assumption that those that don't smoke hate it. This is not always correct. Some friends that don't smoke don't object to visiting smokers smoking. What I was trying to do was to start a thread that didn't get imotional like one did on pets in B&B's some time back. I just want to be allowed to go and have a drink in a bar in a smokers area where my smoking won't annoy and upset others and the same when I go to a restro. Perhaps the answer is to ban smoking completely.

But then as pointed out family members mainly children are a different issue, they can't exactly leave home. I for one out of guilt would not smoke in front of children as an example and just in case there is a possiblity of them getting ill regardles of if ther parents smoked or not.

Well my LF magazine arrived today and ther is a short artical on the smoking ban which it states comes in to effet on the first of Jan 2007. So people who play in bands etc will just have to wait till then to be smoke free like the rest of you non smokers.

[Deimos]

One aspect that may be confusing things (for me anyway) is the distinction between a "public" and "private" place. To my mind, as an example, a train or a station is a "public place" (owned by the public, etc.). However, I would have thought the majority of restaurants and bars are private places. They are owned by a private individual(s) (directly or indirectly) and the owner is free to allow in or exclude people. When you enter a bar or a restaurant you are going onto private property. Surely then it is for the owner to decide what is and is not permitted on his/her private property ?

I am all in favour of people banning smoking or allowing smoking on their premises. either way, make it clear and people who chose to visit know where they stand.

Although I know nothing about Gites, etc. I would have thought that neither "no smoking" or "smoking allowed" places lose any business. The "no smoking" places will attract non smokers whilst the "smoking allowed" places will attract smokers. People know where they stand. The worst will be when a smoker accidentally turns-up to a "no smoking" place or vice versa (they probably wont go back again).

If I visit somewhere I abide by the "rules of the house". In my house others abide by the "rules of my house".

Quillan said: "Another issue is the assumption that those that don't smoke hate it. This is not always correct. Some friends that don't smoke don't object to visiting smokers smoking."

I also do not smoke but do not object to others smoking.

Ian

[TWINKLE]

[quote user="Quillan"]

My point was and is why can't smokers and none smokers be segregated properly in differnet rooms not the same room at different ends.

 What I was trying to do was to start a thread that didn't get imotional

[/quote]

In a perfect world where all bars,cafés & restarants are large enough and the owners have the money to makethe required renovation changes.

Sorry Quillan it is difficult NOT to get emotional when debating anything as we are after all human beings with feelings and views - some of them strong.

  Oh - and we would like our lungs to stay healthy[:)]

[TWINKLE]

[quote user="Quillan"]

My point was and is why can't smokers and none smokers be segregated properly in differnet rooms not the same room at different ends.

 What I was trying to do was to start a thread that didn't get imotional

[/quote]

In a perfect world where all bars,cafés & restarants are large enough and the owners have the money to makethe required renovation changes.

Sorry Quillan it is difficult NOT to get emotional when debating anything as we are after all human beings with feelings and views - some of them strong.

  Oh - and we would like our lungs to stay healthy[:)]

[TWINKLE]

Double post - sorry!

One for each lung[;-)]

[Bob T]

And whilst on the subject of the smokers who pollute the air for the rest of us, what about dog owners who let their little darlings pollute our pavements with their doggy dodo. And for that matter people with children who go into cafes and let them make tons of noise pollution, oh, and the moped riders who race around the roads making noise. And then there are the women who wear strong cheap perfume which can cause breathing difficulties. Ban them all!

If I don't like any of the above I would just avoid them and not worry. Everyone to their own.

[Chris Head]

God meant folk to breath oxygen, not other peoples smoke, there is no argument and no debate in my book, to defend polluting other people to the point of death is just silly. Yes I am a smoker and boy do I feel bad about it, and yes I do everything I can to avoid inflicting my filthy habit on others.

[TWINKLE]

[quote user="Bob T"]And for that matter people with children who go into cafes and let them make tons of noise pollution, oh, and the moped riders who race around the roads making noise. And then there are the women who wear strong cheap perfume which can cause breathing difficulties. Ban them all!
[/quote]

Just as well that none of these are life threatening! 

By the way - I think men who buy women cheap perfume should be drowned at birth[Www]

[Quillan]

It is not just cheap perfume, perhaps if the women washed more they wouldn't smell so much as to have to put perfume on. I don't think you will find any man who has gone out with, married or lived with a woman because she wears perfume. So why is it that women feel that they have to wear perfume? They say it makes them smell nice but to whom? Bit of a silly one that.

There are plenty of ways to kill people in day to day life other than smoking and as has already been said if you don't like a place because its got people smoking in it then don't go in. As for segregation in bars and restros well I haven't met a poor owner yet so that one does not work for me at all. Perhaps all the people who hate smoking so much can move to California.

 

[Cassis]

Not enough time to reply properly.  I think anyone can smoke, drink, do what they like as long as it does not hurt others and they do it outside, not in the bedrooms or the sitting room where it can affect the experience of those who come later. 

Perfume - can be a bitch!  Jude reckons some of them cause migraines, but I DK.

[Tay]

Cassis,

Yes, many perfumes do cause migraines as they contain orris root extract which some people (including myself) are allergic too.  How I used to enjoy getting the train to work each morning and being trapped in a packed carriage with women wearing the 'wrong' perfume.  I'd often be back on the train home within a couple of hours, unable to work due to the resultant migraine.  [:@]  Aftershave has never caused me to have a migraine; perhaps the perfume-wearing women should start wearing that instead? Or preferably none at all! 

[TWINKLE]

Oh dear! 

 People ALWAYS tell me I smell lovely when I wear perfume and when I'm not wearing any my natural smell drives my husband wild!

When I talk to people who smoke I feel very nauseated by the odour their whole being seems to give off. It's AS bad as b.o. for me. 

 There is nothing worse than the smell of cold, stale tobacco.

[nimportequoi]

I don't smoke and if I go to a resto and end up near someone who is smoking it ruins the meal for me, so I'm happy about the new legislation. However, I do confess to rather liking the smell of the brown Gitanes that my French agriculteur neighbour has constantly hanging out of the side of his mouth.

[Georgina]

[quote user="Bob T"]And whilst on the subject of the smokers who pollute the air for the rest of us, what about dog owners who let their little darlings pollute our pavements with their doggy dodo. And for that matter people with children who go into cafes and let them make tons of noise pollution, oh, and the moped riders who race around the roads making noise. And then there are the women who wear strong cheap perfume which can cause breathing difficulties. Ban them all!
If I don't like any of the above I would just avoid them and not worry. Everyone to their own.
[/quote]

Bob, one day you may come out of a cafe to avoid the children making a noise, step in some doggy poo, wipe it on the road and get run over my a moped racing down the road, then a woman wearing cheap perfume comes to your rescue..... You can't avoid them.  You had to be joking ... right??

 

and back to smoking.....

Georgina[:D]

[Renaud]

Whilst inflicting smoke on others, drunken behavious, pooing on the pavement are all anti-social...

and I am not thrilled by veal production and goose liver stuffing...

indeed, I prefer people who have good maners...

but I am sort of with Bob T as I think that the world would somehow be a lesser place if nobody had any vices.

 

[Bob T]

Must admit that my post was very tongue in cheek. I ride my motorbike around with standard exhaust, (I would love a noisy sports one), as I don't want to think that I would be upsetting others in this fantastic country. I must admit that I am also a smoker, and I will smoke in a cafe if I didn't think that others were sitting too close.

I consider myself to be a tolerant person, but what gets my goat is the do gooders, and my sister in law is one of them, who would deliberatly sit close to a smoker so that she can wave her hands around at the smoke and complain loudly.