100 reasons to vote Socialist?

[Logan]

[quote user="sweet 17"]

logan

what you have said makes excellent sense.  however, i cannot totally agree with your penultimate sentence.  i like to think that there is someone other than ourselves that we need to believe and trust in.  now, i am not a religious person, so i will not resort to depending on any other Being or Force "out there".  but, surely, there are people (even politicians) who have an altruistic inclination, people who do want to make a difference?

i know he is not a politician as such but i was thinking of someone like bill gates.  he can and does make improvements to the lives of millions, does he not?

[/quote]

Philanthropists such as Gates have been around since the industrial revolution. I don’t have a problem with their desire to help others and sometimes they can make a small difference. However looking to them as a role model or an icon of virtue for me is not an attractive idea. Historically most of them amassed huge fortunes through the exploitation of human resources. Gates, I accept is a different example and what he is trying to achieve currently is laudable. This altruism often arose from the desire to deny their dependants an easy useless life. Who would blame them for that.

I don’t really understand the need to believe in others or have a role model to look to. I had the advantage of a private education which had as a core philosophy the principals of self reliance and self belief. Icons of virtue have always seemed to me to have feet of clay.

Politics matter a lot because its only through political change that societies can move forward and improve. France sadly has been politically moribund for a generation. The reason is because no one body politic has had the political muscle or support to force through much needed reforms. I sense at the moment a consensus in the country for change and to finally ditch the post war social consensus and the much outdated social model.

I believe Sarko offers the best hope for political change in France for a generation. I don’t admire him or look up to him. I don’t personally even like him very much. However, I do expect when I vote for him that he will deliver for France the social and political change the country needs.

 

 

[Will]

Logan, how come you get the chance to vote for Sarko (or Sego?)?

Steve, cannot agree with your personal opinion about the Thatcher woman, but do respect it and think I know what you mean.

I don't agree either that Britain needs another dose of her type of politics and/or leadership, but I do think that French politics could do with a Thatcher figure to drag things kicking and screaming into the present day. France may have much to be proud of, but it all needs some rather unpleasant reform. Neither Sarko nor Sego look bold enough.

[Alan Zoff]

That's the rub, isn't it? If anyone is going to change things, they first have to be able to work the system. I might think "that Logan chap - he makes a lot of sense, I'll vote for him". But has he got what it takes to get elected and into a position of power (even if he wanted to)?

It's no good being "right", having all the needed ideas and objectives, if you can't get elected or can't force the measures through once in power. So we have to put up with the downsides of the Blairs, the Thatchers, the Sarkos perhaps, warts and all, or nothing will change.

[serrif]

Anyone who votes for the left (bourgeois communists) need their heads examined. Just look at the poor UK after Blair and his 'friends' have been in power. Any Prime Minister who would have the likes of Prescott as his Deputy must be on the wrong road.

Do not forget why some of you have chosen to live outside the UK.

If the Socialist ( Left ) win France, then many more higher tax paying French people will leave France and take their buying power with them.

[mint]

logan, you are a difficult person to disagree with because you sound eminently sensible.  and i am not disagreeing with you as such

you have admitted that you were fortunate in having had a good education and can think for yourself.  there are, however, many many people much less fortunate than you, who perhaps are not equipped, mentally or otherwise, to do things for themselves.  and i am not talking only about the industrialised world at this stage.  i am thinking of poor, ignorant, starving people who maybe do need some practical help with just staying alive and organising democratic, non-corrupt governments.

i don't mean that looking up to icons and role models is always necessary either. it's just that sometimes, if you do not have access to impartial information or you are mentally unable to work things out for yourself, it's very good if someone in a prominent position could give you some food for thought or present to you in a clear way some other positions than your own.  and you have to admit that even the best-informed person can at best have only a limited perspective.

i do agree that there is a limitation to what one lone person can do (although it could be a very great deal as in the case of bill gates) and that there are times when only good governments and big organisations (that is, individuals acting collectively) who have the resources to change things for those who are unable to help themselves for all the reasons that we can only too readily think up. 

[Logan]

I entirely agree that our societies should help those who are unable to help themselves. That is right but it should be effective help and directed to those who really are in need. We all know who they are. They are not one of the following.

Here is a quote from a newsletter I received today:-

"Farmers in France obtain 65% of their revenue through support from the European Union, a figure that rises to 80% once start-up and investment support is included. The total sum in French farming support amounted last year to nearly €10 billion. Farmers in France obtain 65% of their revenue through support from the European Union, a figure that rises to 80% once start-up and investment support is included. The total sum in French farming support amounted last year to nearly €10 billion. "

French farmers are neither in need or unable to help themselves. They are 'extracting the Michel' from us all, supported by their unions who have the French and EU governments by the throat. Chirac has underwritten this current quoted position for French farmers to continue until at least 2013, with cost of living rises built in. I trust you are all content that your taxes are used in such a manner? I am not. It's untenable and unsupportable in any language.

I use this as just one example of how past French government and the EU have become what I believe to be bloated, overblown and corrupt.

To obtain the previlege of voting in parlimentary elections in France you need to become a 'Citizen Francais.' But you knew that already Will.

[Alan Zoff]

I don't know about France but surveys in the UK have shown quite a lot of public support for financial assistance to farmers, partly to avoid being over-dependent on foreigners for food (in some cases, memories of war-time rationing, perhaps) and partly for fear of the countryside being destroyed if the current way of life is not preserved. Farmers in rural France certainly use the latter argument in support of continued financial aid.

Personally, I feel countries worried about such matters would do better to scrap subsidies but impose tighter restrictions on food standards, particularly concerning the way in which the food has been produced. Food not meeting the required standard could not be imported, whether as whole foods or as ingredients. That would avoid markets being flooded with cheap produce, in particular from animals raised in poor conditions. Effective policing is the problem.