Are There Too Many English In Our Hamlet !

[TreizeVents]

[quote user="Patmobile"]

Well, that's capitalism, communism and national socialism dismissed.  What's left to try?  Nationalism & Racism would seem to have already been included in Naziism.  There is no democratic socialist state that is not also capitalist, so that's obviously out.  I suppose were left with Nihilism, Anarchism, (are they the same thing?) and, perhaps, the new Treizeventism, if only we knew what it was.  A benevolent patriarchy (or matriarchy) perhaps.

Everything will be hunky-dory when Treize Vents rules.  I'm looking forward to the day.

Patrick

[/quote]

It seems like you don't want to know much

at all about alternatives OTHER THAN those which have already failed.  But

what the heck, I will still respond as best I can.  The groups that I have

worked with for over forty years, in the USA, in Britain and now in France, are

part of the same slowly (too slowly for me, but I try to learn patience)

evolving movement of movements which is now best typified by the

"altermondialiste" movement, or global justice movement as it is

sometimes called.  Or Alternative Globalisation Movement.  It really

does not have an agreed name.  If you know about that movement, then you

will know it is not capitalism, nor communism and never dreamed of having any

relation to Nazism (don't even know why you brought that up, as its not Stalinism,

nationalism, Maoism either).  The movements that have formed this movement

of movements over the years include feminism, peace, ecology, commerce

equitable, sexual liberation, decentralisation, voluntary simplicity, anarchism

(but not what you think, and what most people think of as anarchism), organic

and local production, decroissance, non-hierarchical organisation,

cooperatives, alternative medicine, communal or collective living and many

others.  There are some people in it (but there are no membership cards or

central authority so its hard to tell how many we are) who live quite ordinary

lives, or look like it.  If you came to my house, for example, you might

think I was a normal person, car, garden, house in lotissement, shopping, hanging

out in cafes, watching TV, etc. If you looked harder or asked, you might see

some differences.  Others live in a way that you might call "research

and development".   That is, the R and D people (on the

frontiers, as are all R and D people) live quite differently to

"normal" people.  Most people in the movements do what they can

or feel most comfortable with.  Or what their health permits.  If you

were to bet on whether this movements of movements will succeed, you might have

some long odds.  But people don't always live according to the odds. 

I would guess that if you were in the "modern science movement" in

the sixteenth century, you might find it hard to believe the modern

world.  And if you were an early capitalist in the same century, you might

think that your movement would not obviously be a gross success. 

 

So that's the short story.  The longer story is in many actions, books and

periodicals.  I can give examples if you tell me that you are interested

and whether you want French or English.  And you can be utterly sure that

this movement will not ever be called Treizeventism.  Kind of a cute name

though.

By the way, I have responded as if you were asking a serious question and

wanted a serious answer.  And will continue to do so, as long as you are

genuinely curious.  Over the years, and I am sure you see my point, I have

learned not to spend too too much time with someone who really does NOT want to

know, and who is not open.   I don't know you at all, so I don't know

what your own tendency is.  I have treated you as if you are genuine

seeker of answers.

By the way, in this movement there is no notion that there will be a time when

everything is all right, and all problems are solved.  It is very much a

movement of process without "an" end.

Oh yes, we have really good parties.[;-)]

[Patmobile]

Fair enough, Treize Vents, my post sounded sarcastic but it was meant kindly.  I didn't bring up the N azis, by the way, they appeared earlier in the thread and were referred to, by you, in your condemnation of Capitalism. 

I think there's always a place for experimentation, otherwise humanity cannot progress.  I'm glad there are people like you testing new social theories and seeing how they work in practice.  History is full of brave attempts that could have succeeded but got overtaken by events, or more powerful or practical ideas.

I've always tried to keep an open mind - it's a necessity to anyone who believes knowledge can only come from scientific enquiry and experimentation - and I responded as I did to your post because I thought it sounded as if you had closed yours.  Sorry.

I rather like the sound of Treizeventism, too.  Please remember, when it becomes famous, that I was the one who coined it.  I would like to have made some contribution to the revolution, even if it's just inventing the name.

Patrick 

Edit:  Sorry, I'm wrong again, I don't think you did mention the N azis - I can't think where I got that idea from. 

    

[Tag]

Lets give Scientology a chance in there too!

[Tresco]

[quote user="Tag"]Lets give Scientology a chance in there too![/quote]

No, let's not. They have terrible parties.

Edit: and they are just plain terrible...

[TreizeVents]

[quote user="Patmobile"]

Fair enough, Treize Vents, my post sounded sarcastic but it was meant kindly.  

I think there's always a place for experimentation, otherwise humanity cannot progress.  I'm glad there are people like you testing new social theories and seeing how they work in practice.  History is full of brave attempts that could have succeeded but got overtaken by events, or more powerful or practical ideas.

I've always tried to keep an open mind - it's a necessity to anyone who believes knowledge can only come from scientific enquiry and experimentation - and I responded as I did to your post because I thought it sounded as if you had closed yours.  Sorry.

I rather like the sound of Treizeventism, too.  Please remember, when it becomes famous, that I was the one who coined it.  I would like to have made some contribution to the revolution, even if it's just inventing the name.

Patrick 

[/quote]

Thanks Patrick.  Glad I took the post seriously, that is, that I kind of ignored the slightly sarcastic bit which crept in unawares.  I admit to being a bit closed minded on certain questions, but open on others.  If I were open on everything, I would just get mightily confused and not know what to do or say.  As for the revolution, I wouldn't hold my breath.  It would be my fondest desire to live in a different world than the one we inhabit, but I guess there will just be wee patches of experimentation here and there, and certain periods of some people's lives that represent those changes.  Although, who knows.  As for the name, I shall keep your contribution in mind. But believe me there are so many people smarter, more experienced, braver and better thinkers than me that my name is likely to be just one of many that trod the path.  Or missed the turn. 

There certainly are a lot of books that one can look at if really curious, ones that explain the activities and notions and theories that we have generated.  I am reading a lovely one now called Hope in the Dark: Untold Histories, Wild Possibilities by Rebecca Solnit, really well written and not too long.  Kind of a morale booster.  PM me if your interest hots up.

[johnevans2007]

Are There Too Many English In Our Hamlet ?

[MrCanary]

[quote user="Thibault"]

I would be interested to know how the Brits have ruined one country (I assume their own). 

I would also be interested in how they are now ruining France.

[/quote]

Hi Thibault - I think France is wonderful, but it is far from perfect. I think the UK is vibrant and has lots of opportunities - especially for young people - but it is far from perfect.

The UK has not been ruined, that is just the personal perception of many (especially older) British people. A similar view of France is held by my dear French friend and neighbour who regularly says, "la France est dans la merde!"

300,000 young French people live in the London area of the UK because that is where they prefer to be. Probably a similar or greater number of Brits live in France, because that is where they prefer to be.

For me, I love and respect France, the French people, the French way of life and I am so grateful that we can live happily together. I, and my family and friends, have done nothing to ruin the UK and we will certainly be doing nothing to ruin la belle France!

Mel

[daisymay]

I don't think that some places being ghost towns out of season has that much to do with holiday home ownership. I speak as someone who made the mistake of going to Rocamadour early November one year. There should have been tumbleweed bowling down the street. I have also been told that the permanent population of La Roque Gageac is 35. Decades ago Spain, especially the Balearics and Italy had short 'holiday' seasons. Now it is recognised that scorching weather is not necessary to the enjoyment of places. Sorry if a bit off topic