Poverty in France

[idun]

One of the reasons a friend of mine moved from Nullpartville-en-Pleincampagne, a house she had been very happy in and had good friends round about was because after 15 years of living there she had kids.

She is english but had worked in some of the local schools and just could not bear the idea of putting her kids into the local school where there was mainly a peasant intake. The mindset was in her local school was restricting, and the expectations for the kids practically non existant. She moved to a city and what a difference it made,the dynamics / expectations for city kids was just about another world.

Ofcourse if everything goes to sh2t on this planet, those without, will likely be far better able to cope than me. However, for me the glory of the human spirit is not to stagnate and survive, but to have ambition and desire. Our earliest ancestors made adornments, and that urge to possess 'things' just kept on and on. Look at the silver and gold jewels that have been found. As cultures developed so did the arts and crafts. In fact we are probably no more consumer minded than most of our ancestors.

Which brings us back to the have nots, what are their 'envies', it really would sadden me to think that they have none that it is as primitive as a full belly and having a warm shelter, I hope not.

I admit I understand elderly folk leading simple lives, I see my Dad doing just that and he is happy keeping things nice and easy these days. Chosing a way of life is quite different to not having a choice. And aren't the people we have been talking about had a life time of pénurie and so it goes on.

[Jay]

"......according to the latest uSwitch Quality of Life Index, the UK and

Ireland are the worst places to live in Europe! Meanwhile, the best

quality of life can be found in France and Spain." Source

[idun]

LOL Read that, I wouldn't swop my current lif with one back in France. If sunshine comes into it, then I had too much in northern England last summer, never mind that heat wave where I used to live.

Life is cheaper where I am too and at last I can afford artisans to work for me. Remember 20% unemployment in Spain and riots, if that is the best, well I'll take the worst thankyou.

[andyh4]

Thta cannot be right idun.  The survey clearly shows that the French shopping bag is cheaper than the UK one.

 

Although I have to say that unless the shopping bags were full of cheap French wine I don't recognise the survey result with anything in my recent experience.

[Quillan]

[quote user="andyh4"]

That cannot be right idun.  The survey clearly shows that the French shopping bag is cheaper than the UK one.

Although I have to say that unless the shopping bags were full of cheap French wine I don't recognise the survey result with anything in my recent experience.

[/quote]

Spot on Andy, there are some errors there. One they seem to have got wrong is electricity as they have failed to add in the standing charge here in France. Considering you get a large supply in the UK, bigger than whats available in France normally on a pro rata basis you would have to add on another £1,000 per year and I make the day rate per kw about 10p using the figures from the EDF website.

I would also like to know what was in the shopping bag.

[idun]

My shopping habits are pretty similar here to France, apart from wine, which we never have bought much of. When we first got to France we would have a glass every evening, but that soon 'wore' off and now we only have wine when friends come round or we are out.

Beer is the thing, but how do you compare, drinking out is far cheaper here than in France, but drinking in, is dearer, so we end up buying far less beer for home consumption than we did in France.

I buy my jambon cru from Lidl and it is italian and good and £1.49 a packet, they even sell mortadelle and then there is emmantael, which I need for my croque monsieurs.In fact I can get just about any cheese I want and there are international markets frequently enough to buy stuff the shops don't sell.

I cannot buy andouillette here that is for sure.

If we had a little more wine when we first got to France then we had baked beans, cheddar and sausages a bit more when we first got back here, but that 'wore' off too.

Our shopping bills are definitely cheaper than they were. Last time I was in France I had planned on bringing a few treats back, but I just couldn't bring my self to pay so much for some of the things.

My current gas and electricity bills for the last year have averaged at £60 a month, including last winter which was very cold here. In France we were paying 130€ a month for gas and electricity and we had EJP which is the cheapest electricity contract. Bigger house in France though, although when we move into an even bigger house than our french house, I expect to only pay around £85 a month or hopefully a little less, plus use wood.

[Stan Streason]

I have never been poor in the true sense of the word. About 35 years ago I was down to my last 5p put it in a slot machine and won £5. That lasted me a week, but my rent and food were already paid for, so I was not really poor.

But I have worked, at first for qualifications and subsequently for nearly 40 years at over 50 hours plus a week, doing my best to provide the good things for myself and my family.

The aged and infirmed can be poor if they have inadequate state assistance - no one else needs to be.

Where my second house is in France the farmers seem to work hard, the local English full time residents work hard but no one else seems to. Short hours, long lunchbreaks, no ambition.

Its not PC and there will obviously be the odd exceptions but in general the harder you work the less poor you get.

[Richard51]

If you have good health, reasonable intelligence, an undisrupted childhood and were born at the right time then, yes, working harder generally equates to less poverty.  Unfortunately, there are many who do not tick those boxes.  In areas with 10% plus unemployment, with the remaining employment being largely at minimum wage rates - there may not be many choices other than scraping by.

Stan - we grew up in an era when there was free education, good student grants, a stable UK manufacturing sector, cheap housing that escalated in price (way beyond it's true value)... and good pensions.  It's the greed of our generation that has caused the current problems.  We should be thankful for what we have, maybe a little humble - but certainly not condescending.

Mrs R51

[Stan Streason]

I certainly hope I was not condescending but its not just my generation I was talking about.

My 28 year old nephew lives in a derelict West Midlands town and left school at 16 with no qualifications a couple of years before his mother, my sister in law died of cancer.

He is pretty much unemployable in a normal type of job but in the last dozen or so years he has collected scrap metal, stacked Asda shelves overnight, been a milkman and any number of other jobs sometimes two or three at a time.

He now works on the canals. He has never claimed unemployment and has never felt sorry for himself.

He currently lives in a housing association house and provides for his partner and baby twin girls. My help is always there as a backstop and I would give it without hesitation but other than decent presents for the kids and a free holiday in France he has always refused anything else.

Other than his health which has always been good he has worked through every other bit of dung that life has thrown at him. I have nothing but admiration and believe if he can do it there is no reason others cannot.

[Braco]

My view for what it is worth is that the economic future for most of Europe will remain bleak with a steady and irreversible decline. The centres of wealth creation are moving East, while we carryon thinking that we can create vibrant economies by working for councils and government departments. .

Governments of both parties while well intentioned have only succeeded in creating a dependency culture,.