pachapapa Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 On the termination of the war General de Gaulle issued an Ordonnance in 1945 nationalising the Renault Company without any compensation.The firm was accused of voluntarily collaborating with the Nartsi Occupation unlike Citroën and Peugeot.The heritiers are claiming the return of the company on the basis that the nationalisation was illegal.Difficult one for the court to decide! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolybanana Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 It was post-war retribution and ill considered, childish. Of course it should be returned to the family. But the almighty French State could never do it, so the courst will be told what to do in late night fone calls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
just john Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 together no doubt with some surreptitious siphoning of bail-out funds to squirrel a few mill to the family for them to splash out on a Chateau somewhere no doubt (like sweets perhaps)[Www] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolybanana Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 Sweets needs all the help she can get; moats need maintenance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idun Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 If they are in debt let them have it. If not tell them to ................ go away. As should the courts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chancer Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 Dont suppose you were able to see the 3 hour programme this evening on FR3 on this subject were you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pachapapa Posted December 14, 2011 Author Share Posted December 14, 2011 [quote user="Chancer"]Dont suppose you were able to see the 3 hour programme this evening on FR3 on this subject were you?[/quote]Between trafalgar on Arte and Citroën/Renault..watched Haifa V Shalke on Sat 1.Did it mention the court case which will decide in the New Year according to Fr 3 evening news. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idun Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 No Chancer, I didn't see it. Why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chancer Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 To reply to both of you.It was a very very interesting program, for me probably one of the most captivating that I have seen on French TV, now understanding what both Renault and Citroen had put into building their companies I can understand the passion and feeling behind the respective families, it is so much more than was the nationalisation fair, if its not making a profit give it back etc, the Renault family want to clear their fathers name of being a collaborator. Interestingly the competitors both went to the same lycée, maybe even the same year, another bit of trivia, does anyone know the origins of the Citroen logo?Pachapapa. The program that followed was a discussion headed by the FR3 presenter for Picardie (maybe he does other regions also) about the collaboration/nationalisation polemique and was very interesting, Renaults grand-daughter was there, probably the most beautifull and dignified woman I have ever seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idun Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 Dutch family? and their name was Limon, Lemon, or some such thing and they made it as near citron when they got to France? I heard this many years ago, hence the vagueness, and it could have been Beligum, but I am still pretty sure it was Holland and I haven't wiki'd or google'd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idun Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 The trouble with war is that some are forced to collaborate and others are willing and who is to say what anyone did way back then. The family can insist all they want, but the truth is that Renault did work with the germans. And as many french way back then, believed that Hitler was undefeatable, why couldn't Renault have decided to make the best of it, maybe later changing his mind. There are families that have lost much more than the Renault family, much much more in those times, so I'll not lose any sleep over this vague injustice if injustice at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cooperlola Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 I wonder how Nissan feel about this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idun Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 I doubt that Nissan will feel much, or volkswagon or any of the others whose country had started the wars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cooperlola Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 [quote user="idun"]I doubt that Nissan will feel much, or volkswagon or any of the others whose country had started the wars.[/quote]Renault owns half of Nissan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idun Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 Thanks, I didn't know that. I have so little interest in cars and often cannot tell the difference between them these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 [quote user="cooperlola"][quote user="idun"]I doubt that Nissan will feel much, or volkswagon or any of the others whose country had started the wars.[/quote]Renault owns half of Nissan.[/quote] Nissan (as well as mitsubushi , itohchu, mitsui etc ) were on the wrong side at that time as well, so ... from Wicki Nissan built trucks, airplanes, and engines for the Japanese military. The company's main plant was moved to China after land there was captured by Japan. The plant made machinery for the Japanese war effort until it was captured by American and Russian forces. From 1947 to 1948 the company was called Nissan Heavy Industries Corp rgds Bill, the two O level kid.. [:D] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frecossais Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 [quote user="idun"]The trouble with war is that some are forced to collaborate and others are willing and who is to say what anyone did way back then. The family can insist all they want, but the truth is that Renault did work with the germans. And as many french way back then, believed that Hitler was undefeatable, why couldn't Renault have decided to make the best of it, maybe later changing his mind. There are families that have lost much more than the Renault family, much much more in those times, so I'll not lose any sleep over this vague injustice if injustice at all.[/quote]When you put it like that, who can argue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YCCMB Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 Well, they might have left things a tad late...In fact, when I was working for Renault, the French Government decided for whatever reason to reduce its shareholding in Renault, which was mooted at the time within the company to be part of a long-term plan to denationalise it. At that time, shares were offered to all employees at a preferential rate, and then again about 2 years later. So the Government's shareholding was greatly diminished in the mid-90's, to the benefit of the employees. I think they've only got about 15% left, now.And Renault don't own Nissan...well, not exactly. When they bought their (minority) stake in the company (36.8%..the figure is etched in my brain!) there was an agreement written into the "strategic alliance" (for it was billed as such, and not a takeover at all) that Nissan could repurchase a proportion of the shares if they returned to profit within a certain period. Thanks to Carols Ghosn, the "Nissan Revival Plan" was achieved - in fact exceeded by a considerable margin - within 12 months even though it was scheduled to take 3 years, and Nissan exercised its option to repurchase the shares, making the partnership more of a "strategic alliance" than ever. In fact, Nissan was, shortly after I left the companies, far more profitable then Renault - again largely thanks to the efforts of Carlos Ghosn, who subsequently replaced Louis Schweizer as CEO of Renault whilst still maintaining his Nissan role. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cooperlola Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 [quote user="You can call me Betty"]. And Renault don't own Nissan...well, not exactly. When they bought their (minority) stake in the company (36.8%..the figure is etched in my brain!) there was an agreement written into the "strategic alliance" (for it was billed as such, and not a takeover at all) that Nissan could repurchase a proportion of the shares if they returned to profit within a certain period. Thanks to Carols Ghosn, the "Nissan Revival Plan" was achieved - in fact exceeded by a considerable margin - within 12 months even though it was scheduled to take 3 years, and Nissan exercised its option to repurchase the shares, making the partnership more of a "strategic alliance" than ever. In fact, Nissan was, shortly after I left the companies, far more profitable then Renault - again largely thanks to the efforts of Carlos Ghosn, who subsequently replaced Louis Schweizer as CEO of Renault whilst still maintaining his Nissan role.[/quote]Quite right, Betty, a very simplistic version. I was trying to quickly convey to Idun that Nissan wasn't a random car company name plucked out of the blue. You explain it properly, of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YCCMB Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 Oh Coops, I wasn't having a pop, hope you don't think so! TBH, "explaining it properly" was a daily chore for me for quite some time. I think the potted version above is probably riddled with inaccuracies as time has finally (and thankfully) begun to erase much of the corporate twaddlespeak!! The latter phase of my employment, plus the inevitable "coming back as a consultant" phase was spent working far more with Nissan than Renault. And learning that Nissan was a far more dynamic company than the corporate dinosaur which was Renault. On the plus side, I confess to having learned a lot of what I subsequently found I needed to know about dealing with the entrenched fonctionnaire mentality from working with Renault France!! Every cloud, and all that!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolybanana Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 Do you drive a Renault? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cooperlola Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 [quote user="You can call me Betty"]Oh Coops, I wasn't having a pop, hope you don't think so[/quote]Not at all.[:)] I probably owe Nissan my life. 'Nuff said! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YCCMB Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 [quote user="woolybanana"]Do you drive a Renault?[/quote]Qui, moi? No. I drove plenty of them for a very long time, and Nissans, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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