Visa requirements when living with French citizen

[ChezMerlin]

I have just moved from the US to France to live with my boyfriend.  We are planning to go to the prefecture (during the massive 3 hours a day that they are open [8-)]) but would love a little info before I hear it in high speed French.   I would like to get a Visa- I have no job here yet but would like to acquire one in the coming months.  We think there is the possibility to get a Visa and then after a couple months, my boyfriend's company will put me on his health insurance plan.  Sound realistic? visa requirements for a US citizen without a job in France?

 

[Lori]

ChezMerlin - you might want to review this website.  It covers all issues relating to Visas to France.  Normally, you obtain your Visa before you leave the U.S. 

 

www.sos-net.eu.org/

 

 

[Sunday Driver]

Lori is right. If you'd checked first with the US Embassy in Paris, you'd have found out about this:

"U.S. citizens planning to enter and visit France as tourists do not require a visa and are permitted to remain in the country a maximum of 3 months (90 days).

Americans planning to stay in France for more than 3 months, or for purposes other than tourism, must have a long-stay visa (visa de long séjour) in their passports on arrival in France. They must apply for the appropriate long-stay visa issued in the U.S. at the French Consulate having jurisdiction where they reside in the U.S.

Note: It is not possible for an American to come to France as a tourist and then change his/her status to that of a worker, a student or a resident. The French authorities will require such individuals to return to the U.S. to apply for the appropriate visa. Bearers of long-stay visas must apply for a Carte de séjour within a week of their arrival.

To be able to work in France, Americans must have arranged employment approved in advance by the French Ministry of Labor and they must have obtained a long-stay work visa before entering France.

Americans who disregard the visa requirement and apply in France for a work permit are required to leave the country to obtain the appropriate visa at a French consular office in the U.S. Americans should not come to France expecting to find a job and to regularize their status after arrival. Such expectations are unlikely to be fulfilled and personal hardship may result. In some cases, individuals may have difficulties with French authorities and may face expulsion from France."

This means if you stay here for more than three months, you will be classed as illegal alien and you will be deported back to the US. You should avoid this situation by returning voluntarily to the US before that deadline in order to regularise your situation.

You can then return to France and join your boyfriend.

 

[Anton Redman]

Go and talk to somebody local or try the Americans in Tolouse website. The French Embassy site in Washington also states the rules and is probably a better place ot start

There are a lot of French people who want / need visas for the USA and in consequence it is probably easier than the website suggests to obtain a visa for France if you are a US citizen. Are any of your grand parents European ? Ireland, Italy and Greece have a pretty liberal attitude to issuing visas and passports which cover all of Europe to people who have one grand parent born there. US gets a bit upset at the idea of anybody having dual nationality

Post war loads of people used to take the train to Brussels 4 times a year

In view of your profession you may be able to sort out some kind of exchange via the French Equivalent of the Musicians Union.

 

[Wendy]

How long have you been together or lived together? If you have enough of a 'history' to be classed as partners you wont need a visa but should apply for the European Residence Permit. Its free and, if you've been together long enough they are obliged to issue it. Our Mairie handled this for us as you shouldn't be required to attend the Prefecture under the conditions of the Permit. By the way, can you speak French?. You will need to to get a job or it will be quite difficult. Go for it!.

[Sunday Driver]

The US Embassy in Paris sets out the regulations for US citizens seeking entry into France. The French Embassy in Washington DC sets out the same regulations for US citizens seeking entry into France.

Just in case the two respective governments have got it wrong, then by all means, try the Americans in Toulouse website where I'm sure you'll obtain more accurate advice.

Surprise - the Americans in Toulouse website states:

"Visas:
Non-EEC/European Union members are required to have a long-stay visa in their passport, upon arrival in France, if they plan to remain for more than three months. This visa can be obtained from the French consulate having the appropriate jurisdiction in your home country. It is not possible to apply for this visa within France. French authorities will require you to return to your home country to apply. ".

Sound familiar?

So what about the European Residence Permit idea?

EU Directive 2004/38/EG:

Family members, irrespective of their nationality, have the right to accompany and establish themselves with a european citizen who is residing in the territory of another Member State. Family members who can enjoy rights under Community law include the spouse, minor (under 21) or dependent children, and dependent ascendants, though in the case of students only the spouse and dependent children enjoy this right. If the family members are not EU citizens, they may be required to hold an entry visa by the Member State where they intend accompany the EU citizen. They shall be granted this visa free of charge and with all facilities by that Member State."

Any more suggestions?

 

[samdebretagne]

You can't just move to another country like that, without doing any of the paperwork (ie. getting a visa) beforehand, especially if you're not married!  And as the others have said, it is not possible to obtain a visa while in France, you can only get them in the US, from your nearest French consulate.  And you will have a hard time doing this since you are not married - they are not just going to let you come to France with no way to support yourself.  You could try getting a student visa though.

I doubt the European residence permit would work in this case since 1, they are not married, and 2, they would've had to have applied for it before entering France.

As for getting a job without having a work permit or speaking any French - good luck!  There are thousands of French people out there that speak French perfectly and who don't need a work permit, and still can't get a job.

[mascamps.com]

In fact, you CAN just move to another country without any paperwork under European law, specifically European Freedom of Movement legislation.

If you are from a non-visa country (as America is in respect of France), there is no requirement to have any kind of entry visa for stays of up to three months (see http://www.consulfrance-londres.org/article.php3?id_article=318); that's for the UK embassy in London but the information is applicable to citizens of other countries.

Once such a person is in France, if they are married to, the parent of, the child of or in a relationship with a European citizen who is NOT French then they can apply for a European Residence Permit (Carte de Séjour Europeenne). Note that this is NOT the same as a normal Carte de Séjour and the only documents required are 1) proof of ID and 2) proof of relationship from the competent authority in their country of residence. In particular, they aren't allowed to ask for proof of income, address, and the 20 odd other additional documents that they generally ask for: the EU law is VERY clear about that. This permit gives you the right to live and work in France and the authorities are required to issue it within 90 days of your application.

If you are from a visa-country and would ordinarily be eligible for the EU residence permit then they are required to provide a European Family Permit free on request. In practice, this means that, for France, they'd be required to issue a Shengen visa.

You cannot apply for a an EU residence permit outside the relevant country (ie France in this case). What you apply for (if a visa-national) is an EU Family Permit. This is NOT required for non-visa nationals provided they are going down the EU residence permit route as EU law specifically allows you to change your status from visitor to resident (which is very common: Wendy certainly wasn't required to head back to Australia when I applied for the EU residence permit for her). If the EU residence can be applied for (and I don't think it can because your boyfriend is French, unless you have lived together outside France and can document that) then there is no requirement to leave, regardless of what the Prefecture may think (and most are very flakey on EU law).

As the permit is under European freedom of movement law, what needs to happen in this instance to get the EU residence permit is for the boyfriend to move to another country (unless he has another European nationality), establish residence there and then move back to France. Silly, I know, but that's how it works.

If the boyfriend has dual nationality, it's possible to apply under the other nationality as I did when we were living in the UK (same applies here as it's European law that's being used, not any national law).

Having said all that, this permit is very, very rare. Wendy has the only one every issued in Northern Ireland and in total I understand that around 40 have been issued across the UK so I'd say the numbers are probably similar in France.

Another possible alternative, if you have Irish roots is to get an Irish passport. If you have a parent or grandparent who was either born in Ireland pre-1922 or the Republic of Ireland after that or have had an Irish passport, then you are Irish and can therefore apply for an Irish passport. Note that if this applies, you don't need to apply for Irish citizenship first as you are Irish already (even if you didn't know it!). With an Irish passport you don't need to go through any of the formalities of getting a visa or anything and can live & work in France right away.

 

Arnold

 

[samdebretagne]

[quote user="mascamps.com"]

In fact, you CAN just move to another country without any paperwork under European law, specifically European Freedom of Movement legislation.

If you are from a non-visa country (as America is in respect of France), there is no requirement to have any kind of entry visa for stays of up to three months (see http://www.consulfrance-londres.org/article.php3?id_article=318); that's for the UK embassy in London but the information is applicable to citizens of other countries. [/quote]

The key word here is for stays up to three months....she is planning on living here, so this does not work as an option if you want to MOVE to another country.

[mascamps.com]

It doesn't matter whether or not you are planning on coming here to live. To quote the French embassy: "As a National from one of the countries cited below, you do not require a visa to go to France, as long as your stay does not exceed 3 months". So, if you've just arrived you have three months to stay before you have to either leave or do something about extending that period.

I will grant you that telling the immigration people that you are planning on living in France and don't have a visa isn't a sensible move but at worst it will entail a long interview during which you may need to point out that you are applying for an EU residence permit. In fact, if they decide to be pedantic about it, you could simply apply for the permit there and then as there are no forms for the application and you can apply by phone, e-mail, fax, letter, or even just verbally. Once you have applied for it, they can't deport you or do anything "silly" like arresting you.

To avoid any hassle though, it's probably best to tell a little white lie and say you're coming on holiday. It's entirely legal and merely saves everyone a lot of potential hassle. Just apply for the EU residence permit before you're here 90 days.

Wendy in fact changed her mind about going home when she came to the UK and I can assure you that it does not pose a problem in getting the EU residence permit. I was told by the person who issues them that it is a very common thing to happen and that it is fine. We specifically moved here with a view to living here and were quite prepared to tell any immigration officer that asked that we were doing that.

Don't forget that the applicable EU legislation is under the heading "freedom of movement". It means exactly that: it's a collection of laws that are in place to ease movement between European countries and it outlaws almost everything that puts a barrier in the way of your freedom to move to another European country.

 

Arnold

 

[mascamps.com]

One other option is to have a French child, of course. Bit more drastic but then you never need a visa regardless of the length of stay as you're then moving to live with family members.

 

Arnold

 

[ChezMerlin]

Hi guys- thanks so much for all your info- I just got back from holiday and hadnt checked in- ok- i have to read that all a couple more times- but I didnt give the whole scoop.  I am a singer under euro and american management- I can work in france and get paid in the US and I have to be back in the US to work in November (under 3 months-yes)- lived here in march and april too giving things a try-you all must know how tricky it is to be trying to come together in a relationship while dealing with government stuff too- NOT EASY!  I did do the research and was under the impression i would have to apply in November from the states and wait it out. But my companion felt that asking at the prefecture might be wise- no -never under the idea that I just ignorantly moved here and would like the french govt to cater to me-that'd be something.  thanks for chimin in-and about other links to check out-

 

[Sunday Driver]

[quote user="ChezMerlin"]

- but I didnt give the whole scoop. 

[/quote]

If you had, it would have saved us wasting our time responding to the wrong set of circumstances.....[:@]