Inheritance

[cs]

Hi, can anyone advise me regarding the law to inheritance in my particular case as I can't seem to find anything covering my situation in any reference books unless of course I'm not reading them correctly.

We have been married to each other for 30 years.  Neither of us were married previously.  We have no children.   My mother and father are dead and I only have half brothers and sisters but from both my mother and father's side still alive I think although I don't know them.  My husband's mother is still alive, his father is dead and he has a sister and brother alive and kicking.

If my husband dies, does my mother in law cop for 25% of everything I own?  We had a clause tontine put in the contract when buying the house so I believe she owns 25% of the house but does she get 25% of all my previously our savings as well?  Also if I die would my step brothers and sisters be entitled to my share of our goodies?  I sincerely hope not as I've never met them !

If no one knows the answer can anyone recommend a good adviser.

Thanks in advance

 

 

 

 

[Clarkkent]

The tontine clause you inserted ensures that in the event of your spouse's death the real property is treated as though you had bought it as an individual. The rights of any other inheritors are postponed until YOUR death - your mother-in-law herself may be dead by then!

After your spouse's death you have total freedom to do what you like with the property - you can sell it and keep all the proceeds without reference to anyone else. Until such time as you die (assuming you still own the property) no-one else has any interest.

[Tia]

My partner and myself bought a house on a 50/50 basis. I am told now that if anything happens to him his children from his ex wife will inherit his share. Is this so even if we both get a will drawn up leaving it to each other.

I was never informed of this Tontine clause and dont really know anything about it. Is this something we can do now or is it too late.

 

[Viv]

Yes, Tia, his children would be entitled under French law and unfortunately there is not a thing you can do about it.

I believe that the law is changing / has been changed so that the surviving spouse can remain in the property though I don't know if this is for life or if when the spouse decides to move house, the children can claim their share then.

You could try putting the house in your name, but then if you died first it would create problems for your husband.

[Tia]

Thanks.

I know its a drastic measure but would it still be the same if we got married.

[Tia]

If you have a joint mortgage on a property and the deeds were in both names could you re-register the deeds and put them into one sole name to avoid this inheritance if the other partner was in agreement. No doubt there would be a cost to do this but would it be possible does any one know.

 

[Will]

The French authorities are wise to this sort of thing - if they decide that somehting was done for the purpose of avoiding inheritance tax, then they will impose the tax anyway.

[Tia]

Its not the tax we are trying to avoid its trying to avoid property being left to partners grown up sons from his previous marriage.

[Will]

Then it's a matter of timing as to when the divorce took place, when the house was bought, and when the kids were born that govern exactly how it might work, and you would need to consult a lawyer ( and still not get a clear yes or no in my opinion). But under French law you cannot disinherit direct blood relatives so your husband's children from the previous marrriage would be entitled to a share, although under a tontine or similar agreement you would retain your right to live in the property.

You might get round it by re-selling the house to just you, but that would certainly involve charges and could cause new complications - spouses have certain rights, and even if the spouse does not take up those rights, then the spouse's relatives could.

[Tia]

Thanks Will. I am now waiting for a solicitor to get back to us to see what our options are. We havent actually had the deeds registered yet, they are in the process of being done, so I am hoping something can be sorted. Thanks again !

[David_Janet]

There was a similar question on another forum recently and I posted a query which nobody answered.

The poster hadn't seen or spoken to his son (by a previous marriage) for nearly 30 years, and was very reluctant for this son to have any of the inheritance.

My question was:  If the poster had not mentioned this son to the notaire on buying the french property, how, in the event of the death of the poster, do the french authorities get to know of this 'long lost' son?

Am I missing something obvious?

Regards

[Coco]

I've often wondered that too.  Because my step-dad never adopted me, when my parents bought their house here they bought in my name so that if my step-dad outlived my mum there would be no inheritance problems, as he has a niece who is a blood relative.  However, it also struck me that as she knows absolutely nothing about France, French or French law, and he never speaks of her or sees her, why on earth would anyone know that she even existed?

[Will]

I don't see either how anybody would necessarily know, but that doesn't stop somebody finding out. With the current vogue for rooting about around the family tree it seems perfectly possible that somebody could find they had a forgotten uncle who went to France, and when he died they should have copped a few grand. Even with French inheritance tax it could be worth pursuing.

[Tia]

Does the inheritance laws (ie that the children inherit the property) still apply if you dont live in the French property and actually live in the UK. I was told that the French laws only apply if you are living in the property and people get round this by not spending more than 6 months there at a time. Is this true. Welcome anyones advices.

 

 

[Will]

An immovable object (which is how the French charmingly refer to a house) on French soil is subject to French law and tax.

There are ways that this can be circumvented to some degree for non-residents owning property in France. The most common is to buy the house through a company (the most usual format is an SCI - Société Civile Immobilière) so that shares are traded and inherited rather than the actual property. But this comes at a cost and has potential tax implications so may not work for everybody.

[alcahols]

I am in a very similar position to cs (who started this thread) in that neither my husband nor myself have any children. My hubby has a living parent plus brothers & sisters, I have a living parent plus half-brothers & sisters.

When we bought our house (used as a second home not our main residence) we didn't include a clause tontine. Can this be done 'after the event' or do we need to make a will with a French solicitor to ensure the house passes to the surviving spouse? Does anyone know if a will drawn up in Britain leaving the property to the surviving spouse (or in the event of the death of both of us, a share to our respective parents) is legally recognised in France?

Thanks

[Will]

As I understand it, it is difficult to amend the acte de vente after the sale to include the tontine. But you may be able to change your marriage regime to communaute universelle which is often a better solution anyway. As neither of you have children this should be perfectly possible (sorry, not sure if that's the right spelling for the CU, I'm using a computer on board a ferry so don't have my dictionnaries etc).

An English will has no standing as such in France, but in the absence of a French will, an English will can be taken into account as long as it does not contradict French law and practices (e.g. a British will that disinherited any children would be thrown out). So in your case it would probably be OK.

[andyh4]

Am I right in saying that a simple piece of paper saying that you give usifruct of the property to a surviving spouse would be sufficient in this case?

[Alexis]

There are yet more changes arriving on 1st January regarding inheritance.  My SIL was talking about them last weekend.  She and my BIL are going to change their marriage regime to the same one as my in-laws...you can tell I wasn't listening can't you...but whereas that change went to tribunal, from January, it can be arranged by the Notaire.  As it stands, their two daughters inherit 30% each so she is left with 40%.  They agreed with their mother Friday night but as the weekend progressed and they realised that their parents had adventurous plans including selling up and buying a 60m² in the VIeme and exploring the world....possibly leaving them with nothing, the tone changed.  My SIL was distraught as she thought that her daughters weren't like 'all the others'.  Grasping.

A friend of hers is in the terrible predicament of being a widow and a bit short of cash.  She wants to sell 'her' holiday home but her children say no...

One of the reasons we are leaving France.  Well.  The main one really.