Children to renounce inheritance

[Monika]

I have just been reading in the Living France Magazine (article by Bill Blevins) that since 1. January 2007 chilren can now renounce inheritance from their parents in advance, allowing parents to freely leave property to each other under the terms of their wills (if they have not adopted the community marriage regime). Has anybody looked into this already. Would a handwritten statement and signature of each child suffice to renounce their inheritance or does it have to be written up by a notaire? Also: Is a handwritten and signed will in France legal?  

[Cat]

Monika, in order for children to renounce their succession rights, the agreement (Pacte de Famille) must be witnessed by two notaires.

A handwritten will (holograph will, and not the same thing as the Pacte de Famille) is legal in France, but should be lodged with, and checked by, a notaire.

Your first step should be to make an appointment with your notaire to discuss the implications of the changes to the succession law.

[Monika]

Thanks so much Cat, that clarifies it and I will make an appointment to see our notaire as soon as possible. Perhaps, after all, it would be simpler just to change our "marriage regime", which as far as I know would not involve the children (signing etc.)?

[Beryl]

I can see this being of benefit to those who have second families and may not, for whatever reason,wish their other children to inherit. It is a step forward but it still puts the 'power' in the childrens hands. 

I wonder also, if it can be reversed  eg the child signs it away and then falls on hard times and wants to be reinstated.

[Teamedup]

Well in theory Monika, if you change your marriage regime without your children's permission, then they could take the estate to court when you die and say that you had disinherited them.

I'm pretty sure that children could always renounce inheritance legally.They would ofcourse get the money eventually, wouldn't they? and have to pay the added inheritance taxes.

[:)]I mentioned this to my friend a few years ago, she was horrified that anyone would want their children to pay the government extra tax when they didn't need to.

[Will]

TU is right up to a point, because many of the measures, like the adoption of the CU to protect the surviving spouse could always be challenged. That is one of the reasons behind the small but significant change in the law (which we told you about on the forum several months before it came into force). By involving a formal legal way of renouncing inheritance, it will efectively rule out the challenge.

Though, of course, this has yet to be tested in a case where a child may say that he/she had been forced into agreement against their will, and it still seems less than clear as to how legal this will be when applied to children who are not French domiciled, and thus may not be totally governed by French inheritance issues. 

The part of the new law which gives recognition to stepchildren (again, this has to be set up in advance by a lawyer) could be more relevant to a lot of forum users, but that too is new and untried, particularly for stepchildren living outside France.

French law seems to attach a particularly high value on the handwritten will, as long as it is correctly lodged and does not contravene the rigid succession law. In some ways it can be said to be even more 'legal' than a conventional will. Perhaps it is seen as representing the testator's wishes more firmly than something written and witnessed by others, even if signed.

[Loiseau]

Is there a link to a site with details of the changes regarding stepchildren, Will?

tia

Angela

[Will]

There used to be something on the www.notaires.fr site about the forthcoming changes, which mentioned it, but gave litttle detail, but now the changes have forthcome, so to speak, that page has gone. It was only on the French version - the English pages are still locked into the December 2001 law.

The fact that a quick search failed to throw anything up makes me wonder if it wasn't finally included. It was no big change, but was significant - as I understood it, it was going to be possible for children from a previous marriage to be treated, for inheritance purposes, on an equal basis to any natural children of a marriage, but it would require formal documentation to identify the stepchildren and record the consent of the natural children.

 

[Cat]

The French version is on the Notaires de France site, as Will suggests.  It has not yet been translated for their English version website

http://www.notaires.fr/notaires/notaires.nsf/V_TC_PUB/REFORME-SUCCESSIONS-LIBERALITES

 

[Loiseau]

Thanks for that, Cat!  Nothing very specific, but it's something I'll take advice about in relation to my stepchildren.

I was amused by the paragraph that preceded it:
"A noter : les pays, notamment la Grande-Bretagne ou les Etats-Unis, qui permettent de déshériter totalement un enfant connaissent un développement important des contentieux. Dans ces pays, les enfants lésés contestent très souvent le testament qui les prive de tous droits dans la succession de leurs parents. Il est alors frappant de constater que les tribunaux accueillent fréquemment leurs demandes, au motif que le testament a été établi « sous influence ». La liberté de déshériter en totalité est ainsi source de litiges devant les tribunaux. Elle est au surplus souvent factice, car l’application du testament est, la plupart du temps, remise en cause. "   [:)]

Angela

[Will]

Thanks Cat, I was beginning to think that my memory had been playing tricks. Hope that helps, Angela.

[caramba]

In a situation where all the children were born and live outside France how would the French authorities know that they exist?

[Loiseau]

Good question, Caramba!

After my husband died, the French notaire told me he was writing to my UK solicitor in order to check that very fact - whether my late husband had had more than the three children I had told him about, in addition to our joint one.  I pointed out that this London solicitor had known my husband and me for about 6 months - since we had updated our wills - and that the only way he the UK solicitor was going to find out how many children my husband had had was to ask me!  So the notaire agreed it would be cheaper all round if he just took my word for it!

I think he fondly imagined some scenario of there being an old family solicitor who would be privy to everything in the family's life.  He must have watched too many old black-&-white movies about England...

Heaven knows how they would  really be able to check.   I should htink it would rely on spurned children coming out of the woodwork to declare themselves in answer to a newspaper ad or something.

Angela

[Barkham]

Following Cat's comments (20/01/07),  would a Pacte de Famille:

a. Have to be written in French?

b. Is there a special format, and where could I find it?

c. As Cat says it must be witnessed by two notaires, would that mean that the child renouncing his rights have to be physically present in France when the signing takes place?

[Teamedup]

[quote user="Tylden"]
Following Cat's comments (20/01/07),  would a Pacte de Famille:
a. Have to be written in French?
b. Is there a special format, and where could I find it?
c. As Cat says it must be witnessed by two notaires, would that mean that the child renouncing his rights have to be physically present in France when the signing takes place?
[/quote]

 

 

And have reached their majority.