Are P&O Watching and Listening?

[Baz]

I received a letter today from P&O which states as part of their business review they have concluded that the Frequent Traveller Scheme will close this year and travel must be completed by 5 September.

Now for what may be very good news.
They are developing a new, simpler, low cost, airline style pricing system for implementation during 2005, with flexibility and attractive fares. Prices will be based on demand and time of booking therefore offering value to the early bookers.

I think they are feeling the effects of the likes of Speedferries,Ryanair,EasyJet, etc. so perhaps we should thank these companies for making P&O see the light. It will be interesting to see if the other Channel operators follow suit.

Baz

 

 

[Alcazar]

As I posted elsewhere, P&O have this year sold me three crossings for £252 all in, as a shareholder, whereas last year, the cheapest I could get them to do it was as season tickets, £252 for TWO crossings!

Perhaps they are listening?

Alcazar

[Loiseau]

Oh dear.

Cynical ol' me took "airline-style" pricing to mean more obfuscation, like Brittany Ferries.  And I wrote off a furious letter in reply to them, with copy to the Chairman!! 

I said that I was sure they were not *really* intending to make it as customer-friendly as airline bookings - citing British Airways' commendable online system of showing you prices for a week either side of your chosen date so that - if you are flexible about dates - you can see at a glance that shifting your travel by a day would save money...

Perhaps I have wronged them.

Angela (shareholder)

[Linnorton]

[quote]As I posted elsewhere, P&O have this year sold me three crossings for £252 all in, as a shareholder, whereas last year, the cheapest I could get them to do it was as season tickets, £252 for TWO c...[/quote]

I'm sure P&O are watching and listening but not because they have any particular interest in delivering good customer service.  They will no doubt price very keenly on the short channel route in order to try to force Speedferries off the scene.  If they succeed then prices will rise like a rocket.

[Baz]

[quote]I'm sure P&O are watching and listening but not because they have any particular interest in delivering good customer service. They will no doubt price very keenly on the short channel route in o...[/quote]

You might be right, however Hoverspeed are offering £49 return fares a £1 cheaper than Speedferries. So maybe the fight is on, I hardly expect that P&O will undercut these prices. Therefore P&O have to now fight two companies making it far more difficult to put both out of business. I think the Channel Pirates know there is a fight on hand which will hopefully benefit everyone will fares possibly dropping to an acceptable level.

Baz

[Linnorton]

[quote]You might be right, however Hoverspeed are offering £49 return fares a £1 cheaper than Speedferries. So maybe the fight is on, I hardly expect that P&O will undercut these prices. Therefore P&...[/quote]

Unfortunately a Dover-Calais-Boulogne price war won't benefit those who have no real option but to use the Western Channel routes.  I commute monthly and will be leaving a car in the UK, then travelling with BF as a foot passenger and taking the train to Staffordshire.  I want to be able to take the car on the ferry but I've never paid more than I was comfortable with in previous years and I've no intention of being held to ransom now.  

I don't understand why P&O and Stena were allowed to merge on the short channel routes resulting in a situation now where P&O have been allowed to cherry-pick the routes that suit them and BF are apparently picking a price at random and then doubling it when asked to quote.  "Flexible pricing" would be a joke if it were not for the amount of ill-will it's creating amongst reuluctant users of their services.  

[Russethouse]

Everybody wants the lowest possible price, but I hope there will not be crocodile tears shed when there are more redundancies at P & O - something will have to give !

[Linnorton]

[quote]Everybody wants the lowest possible price, but I hope there will not be crocodile tears shed when there are more redundancies at P & O - something will have to give ![/quote]

It's not a question of "lowest possible price" but "value for money" and I don't consider that BF's pricing comes anywhere near being value for money at the moment.  I won't be shedding crocodile tears when P&O pulls off Portsmouth-Le Havre because I assume that employees are either actively seeking and taking other jobs or, if it's worth their while, waiting for  a redundancy payout.

[Russethouse]

IMHO, BF are 'having a laugh' but their staff are protected by their French union who seem to have more teeth than the UK version.

I was really thinking of P&O Dover - Calais route.

There was a lot of posts about the poor staff at Portsmouth a few months ago, but the price of stream lining and providing 'value for money' may be jobs......or even the cancellation of more routes.

[Alcazar]

[quote]Everybody wants the lowest possible price, but I hope there will not be crocodile tears shed when there are more redundancies at P & O - something will have to give ![/quote]

No, I won't shed crocodile tears. Someone will run a service, because the market warrants it. If P&O go bust, it'll be their own fault and they'll have done it to themselves.

Prices HAVE to come down. Not for nothing is that stretch of water known as the most expensive in the world. Strange that it's our problem, rather like "Pounds for Dollars" for everything Japanese, or the most expensive cars in the world, or the most taxes, or the dearest petrol and diesel............but all that's another story

It might "amuse" some on here to know that 4 years ago, we planned on taking our caravan to Greece. The ferry from Venice to Athens, nearly 36 hours, was going to be cheaper than the ferry from Dover to Calais. Now THAT'S disgusting!!!

Alcazar

[BJSLIV]

One mustn't forget the British obsession with low taxes and cutting subsidies. Virtually all major ferry routes anywhere  in the world receive some sort of subsidy. The cross channel ferries get none.  I would bet that we also apply more stringent safety regs. Both of these will tend to push up prices.

Its no surprise to find that most of the tubs withdrawn from The Channel go on to a lengthy afterlife in the Far East or the Greek Islands. The much unlamented Lion from the old P&O Southampton - Le Havre route was in service until a couple of years ago!

[Linnorton]

[quote]No, I won't shed crocodile tears. Someone will run a service, because the market warrants it. If P&O go bust, it'll be their own fault and they'll have done it to themselves. Prices HAVE to come ...[/quote]

I'm far from an expert on the subject and Will the Conqueror probably knows far more but from what I've gleaned on other websites, P&O's owners have deliverately run down the ferries because they want to get out of the market to concentrate on other interests like the over supplied cruise market. (Way to go, with last weeks expensive disaster; I hope it's cost them loads of money).  I've been a regular ferry user for twenty five years and there is no doubt in my mind that the writing was on the wall for P&O Western Channel routes, two years ago, when they stopped offering promotional prices for short break holidays.  The effect was immediate and had what may have been the desired effect.  Why pay £170 quid for a three day weekend in Normandy when you could fly to Prage for £70 for two people?  As for Brittany Ferries, I have no idea where they are coming from on pricing but they won't be making much from me this Summer while I travel as a foot passenger, clutching my flask of coffee and home-made sandwiches.

[Will]

LinN - you are quite right in your information that P&O, like just about every other large company, sees only short-term profit rather than longer-term satisfaction of its customers. I nearly referred to P&O being mainly interested in their shareholders rather than customers, but those small shareholders who hold P&O stock in order to benefit from so-called concessionary fares would certainly not currently feel benefited by P&O. At present, the cruise market is still seen as being a good one in which to operate, while ferries are seen to be a declining market.

Should the bubble burst in the cheap flights industry, and some experts feel it will, then ferries may become attractive again, after all there are a lot of people with holiday homes in France and Spain.

I personally think it's wrong to compare vehicle ferry fares with the likes of Ryanair or Easyjet (Speedferries, and the other operators like Transmanche or Hoverspeed who offer low-cost options are a fairer comparison). What you should be comparing are foot passenger fares and times. I did this last week when I had to be in London for a day. I had the choice of Brittany Ferries from Caen or flying from Dinard with Ryanair. The timing of the flights meant I would have to go the day before, and return two days after, which meant staying at our house in England. With the ferry I had more of a choice of times, but in the end I used the daytime crossings which compared more closely with the flight times rather than the dearer overnight crossings, which I have used before. Fares were very close, the ferry foot passenger fare being slightly less. Then there was the onward travel from ferryport/airport to our house, between London and the south coast. Here travelling via Portsmouth rather than Luton won hands down on both time and cost. Had our house been north of London, of course, the opposite would have applied.

Sorry Lin, but I didn't take my own sandwiches. BF's food is one good reason for using the service as far as I am concerned. I don't think they made much profit out of me, being the only customer in the restaurant, and perhaps that might give a pointer to the pricing policies; some more attractive offers, to French as well as English customers, might attract more people on board who would use the ship's eateries and shops.

The less said about the P&O Aurora debacle the better. On the face of it, the responsibility would seem to rest with the makers of the high-tech propulsion units (not, as widely reported, the engines themselves) and no doubt P&O will be seeking recompense, as such items have given trouble before on some ships, though on others they work perfectly. However, P&O's record of maintenance and mechanical reliability where anything other than standard marine technology is not good - just look at their record with fast ferries. But having just heard that the un-wanted food supplies for Aurora have been given by P&O for distribution to low-income families in the Southampton area maybe P&O has a heart somewhere. And so does BF maybe - see separate post because this one has got too long already.

[robinwolf]

To All,

This is a very interesting thread, but I think you will find P&O Cruises (Aurora et al) are owned by a third party & have nothing to do with P&O. P&O sold them off but allowed their name to be used as part of the agreement. P&O is now known as a ports operator with a dwindling ferry operation. The losses (£2.2 million) for the Aurora will not touch P&O.

Robin Wolf

 

[Linnorton]

[quote]To All, This is a very interesting thread, but I think you will find P&O Cruises (Aurora et al) are owned by a third party & have nothing to do with P&O. P&O sold them off but allowe...[/quote]

Damn, that really is a shame.  Just out of interest, what else are P&O into these days?  I know they sold off a large holiday complex; they appear to be still in distribution/haulage and as you say they are a port operator.  Would like to know so I don't inadvertently add to their profits.

[Robbie34]

[quote]To All, This is a very interesting thread, but I think you will find P&O Cruises (Aurora et al) are owned by a third party & have nothing to do with P&O. P&O sold them off but allowe...[/quote]

P & O Princes Cruises is still owned by P&O. It demerged from the Peninsular and Oriental Steam Navigation Company on 23 October 2000 when it started trading as an independent company on the London and New York Stock Exchanges. It is now one of the largest cruise companies in the world.

[phylisbide]

On the Portsmouth route last year, P and O staff seemed to be mostly new, many from agencies and therefore not on long term contracts, I believe. So assume the cost to P and O will be minimal. I am more concerned about the cost of a journey going up without the benefit of competition..