Ryanair - another planet

[PaulT]

In the Traveller magazine of the Independent newspaper on Saturday 12 April 2008 Simon Calder, their travel editor, wrote about the wonderful development of mobile phone use of planes [:'(].

He stated that three companies were keen to bring this in, Air France, BMI and Ryanair. He stated that when this occurs and you use your phone:

'Effectively, you are in a foreign country (or, in the case of Ryanair, another planet).'

Wonder what he meant by that [:D].

Paul

[Hagar]

Not sure about the "planet" comment but in terms of "foreign country" I assume he is making the point that you are effectively roaming. eg. You take the plane from Paris to Toulouse - use your phone on board - your in/over France so you might well expect the charges to be the same as if you were on the train. Not the case. The service is actually provided through a satellite link from the plane. This m,eans you have to pay extra for outgoing calls and for incoming calls - just like you were in a foreign country.

rgds

 

hagar

 

  

[dave21478]

Just what we need. Its bad enough listening to some folk yakking on the plane between themselves, but to have to endure peoples shouted conversations down a mobile.....

"hi mate...yeah, im on the plane!!!! great innit? nah, weather was pish, too blimmin hot wunnit? nah...nahhh...yeah...naah...couldnt get HP sauce in the supermarket could we? ...hahahahah.... dunno, the telly was all in foreign wunnit?"

 

[:@]

[AnOther]

Recently discussed HERE along with some potential counter measures [;-)]

[PaulT]

[quote user="Hagar"]

Not sure about the "planet" comment but in terms of "foreign country".

rgds

hagar

 

[/quote]

I think he was making the point that Ryanair is different to other airlines, very different.

Paul

[AnOther]

I would have though that anyone who has ever flown with Ryanair would instantly appreciate the similie [:D]

 

[Iceni]

[quote user="P2"]

I think he was making the point that Ryanair is different to other airlines, very different.

[/quote]

Yup, O'ryanair makes a profit

John

[Stefan]

To be fair Iceni I think you'll find many Western European airlines have made a profit in the last year or two, and that includes the likes of Air France, BA (despite T5), Easyjet, et al, as well as Ryanair. The trick is going to be continuing to make a profit in the next year or two with fuel at  over 100 US Dollars a barrel and a credit squeeze.    

[PaulT]

[quote user="Stefan"]To be fair Iceni I think you'll find many Western European airlines have made a profit in the last year or two, and that includes the likes of Air France, BA (despite T5), Easyjet, et al, as well as Ryanair. The trick is going to be continuing to make a profit in the next year or two with fuel at  over 100 US Dollars a barrel and a credit squeeze.    [/quote]

Yes, it is going to be interesting to know what Ryanair is going to find that they can charge extra for.....

Perhaps set a low weight limit, say 6 stone for women and 7 stone for men and then charge for any excess over that?

Would you like standing or sitting - sitting is £10 extra.

In case of emergency place £2 in the overhead oxygen mask flap and the cabin crew will pass through the cabin renting out life jackets at £20 - £15 for children plus a £100 deposit in case you do not make it

The romance of flying eh

Paul

[Ron Avery]

No they are introducing a £10 fine for every post on Forums  by people who never use their flights and just winge about what for thousands of people in rural France is a very good service at a very low price.

As most of these posters admit to never having used the airline or tried it once when the Cesna was grounded and can obviously afford or aspire to BA business class, the £10 which they can well afford will go to a relief fund for gite owners whose profits will take a big dive when Ryanair get fed up of all the ill inforned wingers and  pulls out of rural France altogether taking us all back 10 years to using the car and ferries.  Is that what you really want?

[Iceni]

[quote user="Ron Avery"]

Is that what you really want?

[/quote]

Of course it's what they want. That would be an opportunity for yet another rant.

John

[PaulT]

[quote user="Ron Avery"]

No they are introducing a £10 fine for every post on Forums  by people who never use their flights and just winge about what for thousands of people in rural France is a very good service at a very low price.

As most of these posters admit to never having used the airline or tried it once when the Cesna was grounded and can obviously afford or aspire to BA business class, the £10 which they can well afford will go to a relief fund for gite owners whose profits will take a big dive when Ryanair get fed up of all the ill inforned wingers and  pulls out of rural France altogether taking us all back 10 years to using the car and ferries.  Is that what you really want?

[/quote]

Well Ron, do not lump me in with those who have never flown Ryanair - because I have a few times.

And I am not into BA business class flying, just economy.

Ryanair seem to try to create this myth that you can fly for pence - sometimes they are dearer than BA or Easyjet and in my opinion offer the worst service.

Paul

[Ron Avery]

P2 As there are few if any flights to France where BA, Easy Jet and Ryanair all compete its hard to compare fares isn't it?  I don't think anybody has ever flown with BA  for pence, but with Ryanair, I have and so have thousands of others,  a couple of times it cost just 1p.  Some flights from Rodez to London right now are free, only 10€ taxes to pay, just what is wrong with that? 

 As you appear to be lucky to have an airport near you that has other airlines, although you don't even say if you live in France, when BA and Easy jet start flying to Tours, Rodez, Limoges, Poitiers, La Rochelle, Toulon and Beziers etc we will all be in the happy position of getting these really cheap fares from BA like you have been able to ........[Www]

[Benjamin]

[quote user="P2"]

Ryanair seem to try to create this myth that you can fly for pence - sometimes they are dearer than BA or Easyjet and in my opinion offer the worst service.

Paul

[/quote]

Does this sound familiar?

1st car salesman " Your motor's in really nice nick. I'll be able to give you 7.500€ for it, which is a lot above book. The new model is going to cost you 15.000€.

2nd car salesman " I can give you 4% off list for the new model and the book says 6.900€ for your trade in.

Which salesman are you going to buy from (I'll save you the trouble of working it out as you'll have to give either salesman your car and 7.500€ for the new one)

If you're not capable of looking at the final price at the bottom of the page on any airlines website should you really be out without an accompaying adult?  [:D]

[Baz]

[quote user="Ron Avery"]

 As you appear to be lucky to have an airport near you that has other airlines, although you don't even say if you live in France, when BA and Easy jet start flying to Tours, Rodez, Limoges, Poitiers, La Rochelle, Toulon and Beziers etc we will all be in the happy position of getting these really cheap fares from BA like you have been able to ........[Www]

[/quote]

I wonder just how long Ryanair can maintain their 23 destinations to France at the prices they charge. With Fuel at an all time high, the pound being at its lowest since the introduction of the Euro and  probably less passengers per plane especially from the UK, cuts in frequency and routes are becoming a real threat. We already know that Ryanair are grounding some of their fleet this winter as the cost will be less than maintaining some routes and I suspect France will suffer. It has often been said that people must not rely on the low cost airlines maintaining their routes and I hope that I am proved wrong as this would only make life more difficult for any businesses relying on the UK traffic.

One further point, it could be the likes of BA and Air France that may save the day on some routes. Certainly BA can be cheaper than Ryanair if you search out the flights, although there is less choice of destinations.

Baz

[PaulT]

[quote user="Ron Avery"]

P2 As there are few if any flights to France where BA, Easy Jet and Ryanair all compete its hard to compare fares isn't it?  I don't think anybody has ever flown with BA  for pence, but with Ryanair, I have and so have thousands of others,  a couple of times it cost just 1p.  Some flights from Rodez to London right now are free, only 10€ taxes to pay, just what is wrong with that? 

 As you appear to be lucky to have an airport near you that has other airlines, although you don't even say if you live in France, when BA and Easy jet start flying to Tours, Rodez, Limoges, Poitiers, La Rochelle, Toulon and Beziers etc we will all be in the happy position of getting these really cheap fares from BA like you have been able to ........[Www]

[/quote]

No Ron, I do not live in France - the health changes mean that our planned relocation in 2009 will not now take place. I will take early retirement now, when I am 60 and spend just under 6 months in France and the rest remaining a UK resident until I am 65 at which time we will sell up in the Uk and move to France permanently - and perhaps when retired it does not matter when you fly, so you can go for the cheapest deals which normally involve mid-week flying with Ryanair.

I live near Gatwick and with a house south of Toulouse near the Haute-Garonne / Gers border I have the choice of Gatwick to Toulouse with Easyjet or BA or Stanstead to Pau with Ryanair.

We would like to come over for a long weekend in July. Current prices:

Ryanair - Stanstead to Pau £229.24

Easyjet - Gatwick Toulouse £216.24

That is for similar times of flight with 2 bags and without priority / speedy boarding.

BA is about £320 but I do find book early enough with BA and you get cheaper flights. We are flying over next weekend  for less than £140 and that includes 2 bags and, on-line checking in 24 hours before selecting seats and then using the bag drop at Gatwick.

I do notice that Ryanair do quickly pull out of airports when the local authority stop giving them a subsidy. That sort of action can lead to people buying in places because of the transport links only to find that they are marooned in the future when those links are dropped.

However, we have now decided that for any visit of a week or more then using the tunnel and driving down is better and also cheaper - the dog can come with us, who thoroughly enjoys France and we save kennel fees.

Paul

EDIT: Plus I forgot, the baggage allowance per person with BA is 23kg - that is 8kg more than Ryanair, how much extra for 8kg both ways for each of two bags?

[AnOther]

It's too easy to become blinkered by the "Budget Airline" tag and forget that there may be equivalent deals on the mainsteream airlines, i.e.

KLM

Norwich - Amsterdam - Toulouse - £223

LHR - Amsterdam - Toulouse - £214

Air France have similar prices to KLM but via Paris.

The fact that KLM/Air France still allow 20kg baggage plus "reasonable" hand baggage means that if you simply MUST tote that much with you it could tip the scales (ha ha) in their favour.

Not much use if you want to go to Bergerac or Rodez I agree [:-))]

 

[Ron Avery]

Well you are lucky being near both Gatwick and Toulouse, others are not so fortunate and rely on and appreciate the service provided by Ryanair to provincial French airports. 

Which you use and why really depends on where you are and what your trip is for, for a pop back to the UK to see family and friends Ryanair has been a godsend,  a 2 hour maximum journey as opposed to a 13 hour drive in the past just to reach Calais, with fuel and tolls costing more than a Ryanair flight.  I think Baz is right, come the winter a lot of routes will be suspended and that is why people should encourage their use not knock them just because they are lucky to have or prefer alternatives.

Just as a matter of interest I would recheck your prices P apart from the fact that your comparisons are loaded to make Ryanair appear more expensive because you have included what they charge heavily for and that is bags and why would anybody take two hold bags for a weekend, you are really paying through the nose with both BA and Easyjet.

 Ryanair to Pau long weekend in July, 11th -14th £95.(EasyJet Gatwick -Toulouse  is £143 BA is £152)

Next weekend is £104 (Easy Jet £166 BA £172)   All flights travelling out Friday and back on Monday on similar timed flights.  In all cases a Thursday out and a  Tuesday return is the same or cheaper with Ryanair but not so with EasyJet or BA. 

[PaulT]

Do not really wish to extend this but the price I quoted was for 2 people travelling Thursday and Sunday.

And why 2 hold bags? Well, when we fly out next weekend we shall be taking 2 hold bags with books in them - I am against throwing away books - and at other times brought out bed linen etc.

The car is normally packed with more fragile items, such as ornaments etc and things that I cannot find in France.

Yes, it is sometimes nice to travel with no luggage or just cabin luggage but there is sometimes difficulty finding space in the overhead lockers because people are taking more cabin luggage because of the cost that some airlines impose for taking hold luggage.

Plus I think anyone buying in France needs to be careful if there is only one provider of transport to an area. Where we are there is the Toulouse or Pau option and also Carcasonne not too far away. So there is the choice of 3 airlines and admittedly with Airbus at Toulouse it does generate traffic.

There also seems to be the questioning of the legitimacy of some of the handouts from some of the provincial airports - these naturally have an affect on fares. Plus, it seems that with Ryanair profit is the prime motivation (yes, unless a business makes a profit it goes bust) but perhaps they need to balance fares with service - i.e. charging a little extra during the peak season to subsidise the low season thereby not marooning people during the winter when services are withdrawn - could even go down to one flight where there are more than one during the peak season

Paul

[Stefan]

[quote user="P2"]

 

 I think anyone buying in France needs to be careful if there is only one provider of transport to an area. [/quote]

 

Very sound advice. BTW judging by your other posts you know a bit about the aviation industry, can I ask are you/were you a P2, P2?

[Sprogster]

Getting back to topic, the only saving grace about the new system allowing mobile phone use on planes, is that it is only capable of allowing up to eight phones at a time to make calls. Then again it could lead to a lot of frustration amongst those passengers who cannot get a connection, because the available lines are being used.

Also because the system uses a satellite up link, the call charges are likely to be very expensive and comparable to those built in phones in the passenger seats of some long haul aircraft. My guess is around £2 to £3 a minute roaming charge! 

[AnOther]

..........whch for me at least is about 9 too many (I read somewhere it was 12 BTW), but I can't help wondering who exactly is going to want to use it anyway ?

Steep onboard charges will be in addition to those of your own provider of course and frankly I don't see your typical Ryanair passenger availing themselves of the service to any significant extent so it will be the preserve of the business traveller on expenses and the "Walter Mitty - CAN'T TALK NOW, I'M ON THE PLANE" types who will simply not be able to resist an opportunity to show themselves up for the pillocks they are.

And I wonder what mechanism will be employed to actually collect the fee. Buy it in advance with your ticket, PAYG on board ?

Would sir/madam like a phone call to go with their scratchcard ? [+o(]

I'm pretty thick skinned but outside of an absolute dire emergency, where say you needed to urgently arrange something for when you landed, I don't think I'd have the nerve to do it.

Would anybody here I wonder.

[Hagar]

[quote user="Sprogster"]

Also because the system uses a satellite up link, the call charges are likely to be very expensive and comparable to those built in phones in the passenger seats of some long haul aircraft. My guess is around £2 to £3 a minute roaming charge! 

[/quote]

In theory , and I stress in theory, this new service should be cheaper than the Inmarsat phones that have been on long haul flights for some years. Reason being the new service uses bigger nuch more powerful satellites which can allocate bandwith "on-demand" and the basic satellite services are thus cheaper.

In practice, the airlines, the satellite service provider, Inmarsat and your own mobile service provider will all  see this as a revenue earning opportunity and by the time they all get their cut then around £2.00 a minute is probably about right. With a similar system offered on the Cross channel ferries the roaming charge is £1.80 a minute.

Rgds

Hagar

[Hagar]

[quote user="ErnieY"]

And I wonder what mechanism will be employed to actually collect the fee. Buy it in advance with your ticket, PAYG on board ?

Would sir/madam like a phone call to go with their scratchcard ? [+o(]

I'm pretty thick skinned but outside of an absolute dire emergency, where say you needed to urgently arrange something for when you landed, I don't think I'd have the nerve to do it.

Would anybody here I wonder.

[/quote]

To the end user it is exactly the same as if you are using your phone in a foreign country. Charges for calls and messages sent and received are billed by your own mobile phone service provider in your home currency. As with any other roaming charges a lot will depend on what style of contract you have with your service provider. With some contracts it will be possible to make calls without any additional charges (within limits). So to the end user it is just another service from his mobile phone provider.

The airline gets its money from the Inmarsat Service Provider (ISP) i.e the people who actually provide the service(connection) to the plane. There is a whole network of organisations involved but basically you pay your mobile service provider - they in turn pay the ISP - the ISP pays INMARSAT for the satelitte service and any land line network involved in connecting your call and so on. .

As to using it - I think quite a lot of people will - particularly the SMS services. " Plane left on time" " Will be late picking you up" kind of messages. Again - for certain kinds of contract the cost of these calls/messages will be included in your overall monthly bill.

rgds

Hagar

 

[Hagar]

Just an idle thought - In my experience information given out by Ryanair ground staff on flight alterations/delays/diversions is particularly poor. I remember one day at Carcassone all these people milling about waiting to meet people from Dublin when the plane had been diverted to Perpignan.

Imagine all the phones going in this situation - and the revenue for Ryanair. No incentive there for them to improve their information services.

rgds

Hagar