Tally Ho - Oh Non ! Not in France, what a Quirck...

[crdale]

Never called it anything other than a sport.

Don't know enough about the french situation to say anything specific bar that there are nearly 100 packs of fox hounds in the country, plus any english ones that spring up in the next few months.

Chris

[Deimos]

[quote user="crdale"]

…

Are you using a complicated way of

saying that over hunting has wiped out the fox population?

 

Chris

[/quote]

 

Not at all and it has not. You seemed to have missed (or

maybe not understood) my point. 

Irrespective as to one’s agreement or disagreement with hunting, the

argument about “managing the countryside” and vermin control” is one that at

best is untrue and at worst shows how incapable those managing the hunting are

at managing the countryside and its resources.

Both vermin control, and countryside management are

arguments put forward by the pro hunting lobby – though my rather long and dull

post illustrates (in simplified form anyway) that this is either another

untruth or those undertaking the work are incapable (or their techniques

flawed).

If the “pro-hunting” lobby wishes to control vermin then

they should stop captive breeding and releasing vermin that then need to be

controlled.

If the pro-hunting lobby maintains that they are managing

the countryside, then the fact that there is a need to re-stock on an ongoing

basis shows that they are incapable of such management as their attempts have

failed.  In this I am being generous and

have not suggested that they are actually “managing” for short term self-interest

(i.e. enjoyment and profit from their sport.

Personally I disagree with the type of hunting carried out

in the UK as outlawed in the recent new laws – but that is personal

opinion.  What irritates me is the

continuing untrue arguments and justifications being put forward by the

pro-hunting lobby to try and overturn the new laws.

Ian

[crdale]

If the pro-hunting lobby maintains that they are managing the countryside, then the fact that there is a need to re-stock on an ongoing basis shows that they are incapable of such management as their attempts have failed.  In this I am being generous and have not suggested that they are actually “managing” for short term self-interest (i.e. enjoyment and profit from their sport.

Personally I disagree with the type of hunting carried out in the UK as outlawed in the recent new laws – but that is personal opinion.  What irritates me is the continuing untrue arguments and justifications being put forward by the pro-hunting lobby to try and overturn the new laws.

Ian

 

There shouldn't be a need to restock I know there is no such need around here and in some livestock areas of the country it would damage relations with the farmers if it did take place where in the country are you referring to?

What are the untrue arguments and justifications being put forward?

 

Chris 

[Deimos]

[quote

user="crdale"]

What

are the untrue arguments and justifications being put forward?

 

Chris 

[/quote]

 

There are many, some of which have been discussed through

his thread – maybe read back through the thread.  A classic example is the “need to control vermin” and yet captive

breed/release.  The area of the

countryside I’m referring to is Oxfordshire and the captive breeding “centre”

is in the Banbury area.

 

I can only speak about areas where I have personal

experience and re-stocking the fox population does damage relations with

farmers.  However, local hunt’s do not

seem to care to much about this (in fact their attitude is that they could not

care less about anybody that does not fully agree and support whatever they

chose to do).  So they do it anyway,

hunt anyway, generate all the negative feelings in the local community.  However, most do not live in the local

community but visit from the towns so there are well clear of local “ill

feeling”.

It is such a attitude that probably helps those who wish it

banned and gives the pro-hunt people such a hard time to win any public

support.  Were they to “court public

opinion” a bit then they might have more success, but arrogant attitudes and

not caring about the local/farming communities just alienates them from

everybody.

The village I used to live in Oxon is far from alone in have

such a “local hunt”.  Lived in Wiltshire

for a summer (working on a farm) and was forever being told horrendous stories

about the local hunt by the local farmers (e.g. stampeding a herd of cows into

barbed wire fences (massive vet bills, etc.) yet hunt ignored what they had

done and just carried on with their “sport”.

Ian

 

[crdale]

[quote user="Deimos"]

<!--[if !supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]-->

There are many, some of which have been discussed through his thread – maybe read back through the thread.  A classic example is the “need to control vermin” and yet captive breed/release.  The area of the countryside I’m referring to is Oxfordshire and the captive breeding “centre” is in the Banbury area.

<!--[if !supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]-->

I can only speak about areas where I have personal experience and re-stocking the fox population does damage relations with farmers.  However, local hunt’s do not seem to care to much about this (in fact their attitude is that they could not care less about anybody that does not fully agree and support whatever they chose to do).  So they do it anyway, hunt anyway, generate all the negative feelings in the local community.  However, most do not live in the local community but visit from the towns so there are well clear of local “ill feeling”.

It is such a attitude that probably helps those who wish it banned and gives the pro-hunt people such a hard time to win any public support.  Were they to “court public opinion” a bit then they might have more success, but arrogant attitudes and not caring about the local/farming communities just alienates them from everybody.

<!--[if !supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]-->

[/quote]

 

Reading back through the thread I see some arguements for hunting are better than others but then I look at some of the twaddle and multiple untruths the antis come up with and as for the vermin arguement it is all relative if you live in an area where foxes take your livestock you might well consider them vermin. Not sure about captive breeding as I have never come across it before other than with thing such as pheasants and the like so I will not comment on that until I know more, however if the local farmers were so upset by this breeding program why did they not ban the hunt from their land, most of the people I hunted with were local to that area  and so were happy to be considerate to others as they were living in the comunity they were hunting in.The most arrogant and abusive attitudes to be seen on hunting day were from the antis, but I will not start a my anti story is worse than your hunt story arguement.

 You are right about courting public opinion the antis do have a fairly easy time of it defending such a sweet looking creature however the hunting crowd have done allot of work on that front and many more national UK newspapers are somewhat more pro hunting than they once were.

 

Chris

[Russethouse]

it is all relative if you live in an area where foxes take your livestock you might well consider them vermin

The farmer might also consider his farming practices if this is a reguar occurence.

[crdale]

"The farmer might also consider his farming practices if this is a reguar occurence."

 

Better evacuate the sheep off the welsh mountains then

Chris[&]

[Russethouse]

I think most hill farmers are quite canny enough to allow a % for loss due to nature, and the fox is less often to blame than might be thought.

Some hill farmers often bring at risk animals down, or even in.

[Deimos]

[quote user="crdale"]…,

however if the local farmers were so upset by this breeding program why did

they not ban the hunt from their land, most of the people I hunted with were

local to that area  and so were happy to be considerate to others as they

were living in the comunity they were hunting in.The most arrogant and abusive

attitudes to be seen on hunting day were from the antis, but I will not start a

my anti story is worse than your hunt story arguement. …

Chris

[/quote]

 

That was not possible in those villages where I have

lived.  Two main reasons – leased land

and even if a farmer owned the land and banned the hut they totally ignored it.  They even go through people’s private

gardens when it suited them.

Local game keeper was once put in prison as when

there were some protestors around he deliberately ran over one of their dogs on

his quad bike.  Fortunately somebody

videoed the incident, it all went to court and he was in prison for a year (I

never saw the video but must have been pretty black and white for a prison

sentence).

Ian