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As Gillian and Jeffrey Quirk can no longer foxhunt in England, they want to organise it here :

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,3-1480318,00.html

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4249861.stm

http://www.au-chateau.com/Sombrun.htm

The Rassemblement Anti-Chasse are asking everyone to write to this couple asking them to stop bringing their "sport" to France and also write to the Maire of Lascazeres, Monsieur Bourbon.  If they have bee stopped in England, please don't let them start here : 

si vous ne pouvez pas lire ce message, cliquez sur le lien http://www.antichasse.com/mailings_new/anglais.htm

 

Rassemblement  Anti  Chasse

Les Anglais veulent chasser à courre en France

   

Souvenez-vous, en février de cette année, nous vous avons alertés sur le risque de voir des anglais invités par le maire de Pau  pour faire des chasses à courre au renard puisque cela venait d’être interdit chez eux. Le maire parlait même de rénover certains bâtiments pour mieux les recevoir !

Vous avez réagi en nombre auprès de la mairie de Pau ; cela a fait prendre conscience au maire à quelques uns de ses conseillers de la violence qu’était en réalité la chasse à courre sous des aspects de fête et d’ambiance sympathique.

Ces invitations ont été annulées. Vous devez toutes et tous en être remerciés.

Mais le même anglais, avide de cruauté,  Jeffrey Quirk ,  qui avait sollicité la Ville de Pau, veut maintenant exercer sa violence sur les renards de Lascazeres dans les Hautes Pyrénées !  Le temps presse, nous vous prions de faire l’effort d’écrire vite, par La Poste, au maire de Lascazeres, Monsieur Bourbon, juste quelques mots pour dire « arrêtez ! assez de violence dans notre pays ! La chasse à courre, survivance seigneuriale ne devrait plus exister dans notre République, refusez de réaliser les fantasmes de Jeffrey Quirk !  . »

Vous qui respectez la nature et les animaux,  dites le avec vos mots, avec votre cœur, avec votre conviction, écrivez vite, aujourd’hui, demain, bientôt !  C’est urgent. C’est vite fait et c’est important.  

Nous pourrons, ensemble arriver à faire arrêter ces horreurs !

Monsieur Bourbon  Maire de Lascazeres     Mairie de Lascazeres

7 rue des Pyrenees

65700 Lascazeres  ;

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Gods teeth it will be cricket next, wonder how that will go down with the old froggies eh what!

On a more serious note (couldn't help be flippant there, sorry if I offended and French person here) I do think this sort of thing is a bit off. I know somebody is operating a hunt somewhere up north because there was a posting here a year back on it. This is France, not England, it's bad enough having guns going off all around me without some pratt tally hoing through the local forest. Mind you the French might take to it a bit and start shooting at the hunters, easy targets and all. Now that would be fun.

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I guess it just shows what a determined crowd the British fox hunters are. Being against UK fox hunting I’m pretty cynical and thing this is diabolical. Trouble is many of them have the money to travel backwards and forwards.

However, I does beg the question about all the arguments they made for keeping fox hunting: important for rural UK economy, need to control the foxes (as vermin), etc. I don’t quite understand how hunting in the Pyrenees will help keep the British rural economy going, control UK fox populations (mind you there would be fewer UK foxes if the hunts did not captive breed and release them into the wind as they used to do where I lived in the UK).

I hope they are thrown out of France pretty quickly.

Ian

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It wouldn't be the first time there has been English foxhunting in Pau.   It was well known in the 19th century.   (Not that I'm approving of it).   For example: 

En 1837, les Anglais achètent un terrain pour construire la Christ Church, temple protestant ; la chasse au renard s'organise avec la création du Pau-Hunt qui défrayera la chronique pendant plus d'un siècle ; un magnifique terrain de golf, le premier du Continent, est installé dans la plaine de Billère, jouxtant le terrain de polo ; l'hippodrome voit le jour, des courts de tennis et une piste « cycliste » sont inaugurés au Bois-Louis. De somptueuses villas parsèment la ville : Pau ville anglaise n'est pas un mythe mais une réalité bien solide.

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[quote]It wouldn't be the first time there has been English foxhunting in Pau. It was well known in the 19th century. (Not that I'm approving of it). For example: En 1837, les Anglais achètent un te...[/quote]

They still hunt today but it's drag hunting, not for fox. I don't mind if they are coming to drag hunt but it seems a long way to come when they can do that in the UK.

Personally I think this guy is very clever. I can't see people bringing and keeping there horses in Pau for the occasional hunt. I think this is all about getting his B&B and photo in the right places and what better free advertising than the BBC and The Times, I bet he is in Hare and Hounds as well as Farmers Weekly all for free.

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For those who would not like these people to be an example to the French of the « English way of life in France » and would like to join those who stopped the Pau hunt project earlier in the year by stopping them at Lascazères, here from the RAC is a proposed text of a letter you can send to the Maire (of course those fluent in French may write what they wish, this is just to help those who are not) :

 

Your name

and address

                                                                           le 26 novembre 2005

                                                                  Monsieur Bourbon

                                                     Maire

                                                                    Mairie de Lascazères

                                                                  7 rue des Pyrénées

                                                                  65700 Lascazères

Monsieur le Maire,

Je me permets de vous adresser cette lettre car je viens d’apprendre avec horreur que vous étiez sollicité pour autoriser des chasses à courre aux renards sur votre commune.

Si cette information est vraie, s’il vous plait, ne donnez pas votre accord pour cette cruauté. Ne trouvez vous pas qu’il y a assez de violence dans notre pays ?

La chasse à courre, survivance seigneuriale n’existera plus dans notre République, comme dans tant d’autres désormais, si vous refusez, avec d’autres élus et la grande majorité des français, de laisser libre cours aux fantasmes d’une minorité, avide de sang et dénuée de sentiment.

Je vous remercie et vous prie d’agréer, Monsieur le Maire, l’assurance de ma considération distinguée.

 

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[quote]Gods teeth it will be cricket next, wonder how that will go down with the old froggies eh what! On a more serious note (couldn't help be flippant there, sorry if I offended and French person here) I ...[/quote]

I have to say Quillian, thanks for making me laugh, I needed a good laugh !!

There was a programme recently about this and one of the organisers was sucking up to a french farmer who called his deer individually to show him, one even took an apple out of the farmer's mouth.  Amazing it was.  He said he would give his consent but I don't think he knows what he is letting himself in for.  He said even though he would consent he did not know how his sons would deal with it when they took over the farm. Can just imagine them barging through the field killing everything in sight and his beautiful deer being scared out of their wits.  What is wrong with these people, no respect for any living thing. How embarrassing also is this going to be.

Georgina

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Sky News Home


The French are unhappy about the arrival of British dogs

Out-Foxed In France

Updated: 16:52, Friday November 04, 2005

The French didn't seem that bothered about fox hunting - until some opportunistic Brits decided they wanted to start doing it in their back yard, writes Sky News' Greg Milam in France.

Jeffrey Quirk, a former tax accountant, owns a stunning chateau and stables in Pau, in the shadow of the Pyrenees.

From January he hopes horses and hounds from the UK will have been moved to the south-west of France and be taking part in the 'chasse au renard' - live fox hunting.

Since the ban on hunting with hounds took effect in the UK, those who previously hunted in the English countryside have been looking overseas for places to carry on the pastime.

The area around Pau would appear to be ideal.

The town is still known as La Ville Anglaise from the days 200 years ago when a fifth of the population was English, lured by warm winters and the mountains.

In the early 18th century, officers with the Duke of Wellington started fox hunting in the area - the Pau Hunt Club was founded by an English lord.


Hunters are taking advantage of new opportunities

Over time, the pastime died out and it has been years since the last live fox was killed in the area.

With its wood-panelled rooms and dusty pictures, the Pau Hunt Club is still active but only in 'drag-hunting', chasing the scent rather than the fox.

Jeffrey's plans to re-introduce the 'real thing' have prompted an angry response.

Andre Labarrere, the mayor of Pau for the last 35 years, was initially quite welcoming to the idea.

Then, he received a thousand letters of complaint - now, his response to whether fox-hunting should be allowed is: "Non, non, non."

He says: "People say to me 'how can you allow it - the poor fox'. Drag hunting is fine, but fox hunting - no."

The anti-hunting movement in France is not nearly as active as that in the UK.

In the Pau area, town councillor Eric Schatz is one of the most vocal opponents to the sport.

He has spoken to the League Against Cruel Sports in the UK and they are planning their next step. He says most French people will view the sport as 'cruel', irrespective of which nationality is carrying it out.


Greg Milan

But Fox hunting would not be against the law in France.

If Jeffrey can secure the permission of landowners and local officials, there is nothing to stop him from realising his dream.

For Brits who want to hunt abroad, he says, there is an element of wanting to find the sort of rural life that has disappeared from the UK, as well as the freedom to hunt.

All over France, hunting areas are rubbing their hands at the prospect of people heading across the Channel in the search of sport.

Property and land prices are on the increase as Brits look to stable their horses somewhere new. Hunting is also popular in Ireland, Italy, the US and Canada.

Jeffrey is confident he can win people over and that everything will be ready to go in January.

But the president of his local Hunt Federation perhaps sums up the feeling best. Bruno Dacencau says: "It's going to be difficult because all this talk about English people descending on the area, it doesn't go down well with everyone.

"People here are very tight-knit, they have their routines, their traditions. They like their own way of hunting. The young are fine about it, but others find it much harder to accept."

The fight over fox hunting - one we're so familiar with in the UK - is about to play out all over again.

More on This Story:

 

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Good on him,hope that the british wets do not bring their towny ways over here,being from the towny myself I only see the anti-hunt shower as just that.....I love to squash the dead foxes in the road it leaves a right mess and it is legal pity one cannot eat them like the dead deer.A more serious note is if the hunt is stopped by the well meaning but dim anti-hunt mob(for thats what they are)from the UK where will they stop?I love my bull fights in here in France will that be next?.....YOU BET.ps viande du toro is great to eat and at around 7.5E per kilo really good value and on sale on the open market here in France as is horse meat(though a little dearer)wild pig is shot round here and is on sale at around 6E depending on what joint(can be bought marinated).Fish, well until the mob try to have fishing stopped! there is loads of fish about.
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I have to say that I don't have a problem with the French hunting in my area apart from the noise of the guns because it frightens my dog. The French where I live are poor and they hunt to eat, the stalking is the sport part, the kill the eating part.

What I do object to is people killing animals cruelly for fun, fashion and entertainment. People like Jeffrey Quirk are just plain stupid and two faced. In my opinion he does not give a toss about hunting, he is only interested in the money. I would also consider any person who comes over to France and hunt with him equally as stupid and two faced. All this rubbish they spout about eroding the English country way of life then coming here to hunt. What the hell has France got to do with the English country way of life. They would be better off staying at home and watching Emmerdale particularly the Dingles who show a far higher level of intelligence than those that hunt fox's.

As for bull fighting well take it or leave it. Personally I will leave it as I see little or know point in it and feel it is cruel and barbaric but then thats some of the Spanish and Catalonians for you.

The UK anti hunt lobby has no place in France, it's place is in the UK. I don't recall any French anti hunt people coming to the UK and sticking their nose in, obviously more intelligent than their UK counterparts. Perhaps the UK lot should, after scientific proof that sticking a hook in a fish's mouth does cause it pain and suffering, turn their attention to fishing in the UK and leave the French alone.

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Merci Quillan.  Most importantly, most Brits have come to France for the peace and quiet, quality of life and "savoir vivre".  It is a shame that the wonderful and welcoming attitude the French have towards them and the good impression they have of them could be spoilt by a rampaging few who en réalité are probably not after the foxes, but filling their bank acccounts via rich "hunting guests", because they can no longer do it at home.

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Quillan,for me I do not understand why foxes(UK,and the french cross over)can be shot but not hunted,sometimes it is a far quicker death with dogs that being shot,me I do not care one bit about all that,BUT as you say about the catalans and spanish once the morons get the "toe in the door"here in France what will be next,most people want the death penalty in the UK should they come to France and protest for it?oops the UK cannot impose that because we are in the corrupt EU,which in some way makes a joke of the EU for if it is legal(hunting foxes with dogs) in one EU country why not all EU countries?Toro Toro.
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We have fox's and mountain cats round here, a lot more mountain cats than fox's. If they come after your chickens you shoot them but nobody goes out to hunt them because you can't eat them.

If, like we are told, fox's kill chickens and lambs in the UK then shoot them, it's simple. This is the bit I just don't understand, shooting is quicker, easier and more humane than chasing an animal till it drops and letting a load of dogs rip it apart.

I do have one question for the hunters in the UK. How many hounds and horses HAVE been put down since hunting stopped, are there government figures, or any other figures? Not many I suspect.

I personally believe the anti hunt people and the hunters are just as stupid as each other really. They all make outrageous claims and nobody actually produces any proof of anything either party has claimed other than the distress it causes fox's being hunted with hounds. The rest, from both sides, is utter tosh.

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Quote [Quillan]: If, like we are told, fox's kill chickens and lambs in the UK then shoot them, it's simple. This is the bit I just don't understand, shooting is quicker, easier and more humane than chasing an animal till it drops and letting a load of dogs rip it apart.

Where I used to live in the UK (a strong hunting area), they used to release captive bread foxes. The captive breeding centre was about 25 miles away and the foxes released for hunting. There were several artificial sets constructed by the hunt (sort of “short term let for the foxes before being killed").

I still cannot understand quite why one would captive breed foxes, then release them into the wild, then start claiming that you need to hunt to control these vermin !!

I do think the idea of the French hunters starting to shoot the UK hunters (rather than shooting each other and people walking their dogs) sounds a great plus though.

But maybe I’m just slow.

Ian

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..also when they did not have enough foxes in the 19th century, they used to import them!  Just proves that keeping the foxes down is just a pretext for being able to chase after something (please also see the cruelty pages, which shows the methods) :

http://www.derbyfoxes.org/history.htm

 

Someone said "the English hunt to ride and the French ride to hunt".  Now they can no longer hunt to ride in their own country, why should we have them here...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/property/main.jhtml?xml=/property/2005/10/08/prfox08.xml

 

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I think the danger here is that whatever the French may think idealogically the fact is that the type of Brit hunter who is able to afford the luxury of hunting in France is going to be very well off with lots of disposable income to spend in LBF.

That might be very attractive to some communes?
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Quote [Russethouse]: … the type of Brit hunter who is able to afford the luxury of hunting in France is going to be very well off with lots of disposable income to spend in LBF

Thing is, how much of that money will be getting into the local community. Those organising it appear British (or at least not French). I bet the visitors will be spending their time hunting rather than visiting local bars, cafes, not really interacting and not really spending their money in the local communities.

It would be an interesting meeting a British hunter and a local French hunter (at least those I knew off who hunted when I lived in the UK and the hunters I have met around me in France). They seem such totally different people. In the UK the hunts seem to regard hunting as their right (they even took their case to court as they thought hunting was their right and it was illegal for the UK government to stop it). The French hunt in my commune(s) came to visit me and asked nicely if I would mind allowing them to hunt on my land. No pressure, just would I mind (previous owner had said no). I allowed it on some (little) but not the bulk. They were happy. Even offered to pay for it, to bring me some of the “meat” to cook and for my dogs (which I declined), etc.. such different people and attitudes.

As Christine says, if it was happening in my area I would be very worried about the impression those British hunting visitors would give the locals of what the Brits were like. I would expect they would risk starting some anti-British sentiments.

Ian

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The thing that bothers me about the whole hunting issue is the way that it has been hijacked by both sides to become a class issue and a reflection of the 'nanny state' brand of politics. I was born and brought up in the English countryside in the middle of a strong hunting community and have known lots of people who hunt. For them it was necessary for the control of foxes and part of their traditional way of life.

I happen to disagree with them about the fox control aspect, though I can sympathise with the tradition bit. So I have never hunted myself (despite having part-owned a highly suitable horse in the past). That is my choice, not the government's, and I object being told what I can and cannot do by those who do not understand the issues.

What we are in danger of here, and why I feel uneasy about France hosting British hunters, is the vast difference between French and British hunting traditions and outlooks. Yes, I know there is some hunting to hounds in parts of France, but mostly hunting in France is very much the preserve of the ordinary countryman, his dogs and his gun. I don't want a load of hooray henries, many of whom may have little real country background anyway, bringing their arrogant ways to another culture where they are unlikely to fit and, as has rightly been said, are not likely to contribute much of a beneficial nature.

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Quote [Will …]: The thing that bothers me about the whole hunting issue is the way that it has been hijacked by both sides to become a class issue

Quote [Will …]: I don't want a load of hooray henries, many of whom may have little real country background anyway, bringing their arrogant ways to …

(Sorry but I just had to point that out.)

I know it’s a bit of a side track (discussing the UK hunting issue) – but any thread on hunting is bound to drift in that direction.

Anyway, (Quote Will …) I object being told what I can and cannot do by those who do not understand the issues.

How far would you take the argument. For example, why should people who own bears not tie them to a post with a chain and bait them. Some people look after cockerels and it is quite in the nature for such animals to fight so why should the government stop people watching it. Fine, maybe there are holes to be picked in my examples, but for me, society sets levels of what is considered acceptable behaviour. As attitudes change (e.g. with regard to what is acceptable treatment of wildlife), so eventually the government will act (normally some time after the move in public opinion) and stop behaviour that is now considered unacceptable.

For me the tradition argument holds no weight. Just because something has been done in the past does not make it acceptable these days. There are many aspects to society which have happened in the past which have now fortunately been stopped.

As I mentioned previously, if it is about verim control, why captive breed and release (which did happen in the village I used to live in in the UK).

Ian

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"It would be an interesting meeting a British hunter and a local French hunter (at least those I knew off who hunted when I lived in the UK and the hunters I have met around me in France). "

You can just hear the conversation can't you.

English Hunter - "Well fo course it's great fun riding over fields and fences on my expensive pedigree hunter. I had to buy a Range Rover and a really nice expensive Ivor Whilliams trailor so I can go hunting all over the UK, it's really good fun, Drinkies down the pub after and all that what, what"

French Hunter - "I go in my mates 1963 Pegeot van, normally in the back with the dogs. I shoot the b*ggers, costs me a Euro a go plus I get to eat it. Nice bit of French bread with cheese washed down with a bottle of local red wine. Sounds a lot less work and a good deal cheeper to me."

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Like I posted I care very little if a fox is shot or hunted the fox will be killed quicker with a pack of dogs than a non fatal gunshot wound,it,s mainly about the class thing as is popping up in the last few pots.

           To see a fox running wild with it`s tail up and fine red coat it is hard to see them as vermin,as for bear baiting,just because it is banned does not mean it as stopped and all the begging ads on tv about mad bears cock fighting the same,public opinion can be whatever some people want it to be.Here in France most folk know the countryside is much bigger than in the UK and fox hunters need not ever even see a french native when hunting M Renard.

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[quote]Like I posted I care very little if a fox is shot or hunted the fox will be killed quicker with a pack of dogs than a non fatal gunshot wound,it,s mainly about the class thing as is popping up in the ...[/quote]

Might be true in the UK but in France the ammo used is high velocity, hollow tipped and soft nosed, sort of normal size going in, size of large dinner plate coming out. I should immagine, if they shot Fox's in France there would be very little left to be alive after.

What they do in the UK is up to them, I have no interest what so ever just don't bring it over here.

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