land rights

[swallowtail]

We have had a house in 04 region for 4 years. Last year, we bought a small piece of land from our neighbour, with the intention of turning it into a small garden. I tidied it up, terraced it and basically prepared it for planting. However, a couple of neighbours complained, and it transpires that the land we bought was used as an informal path leading up to a tourist attraction in the village, and that the original path actually goes through our terrace. We were not aware of this when we bought the house. We went to the mairie to clarify the issue, and was told that there was nothing he could do, and if we were to close the path off, he would demand the demolition of our terrace. We then went back to the notaire, and had a 3 way conversation with the mayor, the notaire and ourselves. The mayor wouldn't budge, but said as a compromise we would have to make a path available for locals and tourists. Has he the right to demand the demolition of our terrace if we decide to close our garden off? The terrace has been there for at least 25 years and there are different routes to the attraction, so I think we are being treated unfairly. Any ideas on how best to proceed, bearing in mind we want to keep garden and terrace.

[timc17]

A couple of questions - Was your land purchase dealt with by a notaire and what was his/her take on the mayor's demand? 

[swallowtail]

Yes, the notaire who overseen the land purchase, was also the notaire who overseen our house purchase. At no point when buying our house was there mention of a path running through our terrace. She was quite surprised by the mayor's demand for either access through our land, or the demolition of our terrace. We showed her photos of the land, and she tried to persuade the mayor to change his mind, but to no avail. Apparently, one of the villagers complained that the English were buying all the land. The mayor said he couldn't please all the people all of the time. Our friends in the village say he sits on two chairs at the same time. It's a crazy situation, as we bought both land and house in good faith, without knowledge of these paths. The mayor showed us an ancient plan of the village, pointing out that the path ran directly through our terrace, then why was the terrace allowed to be built? Also, if we hadn't bought the land, and our neighbour closed it off, would we still be threatened with the demolition of our terrace?  Somehow, I am not convinced of the legality of his decision, and feel that there must be a higher law. I dislike confrontation, but really want to challenge, but am unsure as to what is the right direction forward. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

[Chancer]

I think that his suggestion of a compromise could be the best for all.

Up to now there not been a problem, when your terrace was built there was (and still is) an alternative route for the right of way, if you close off or terrace this land then effectively there is no longer a way to traverse either plot of land.

If you can accomodate the compromise then you conrol the situation and your future enjoyment of your home, if you dont buy the land then someone else may do and enclose it as could the current owner, the aggrieved villager could then force the Maire to demand access through your land.

IMHO but for the aggrieved party and your plans for this parcel of land nothing would have changed, it is not the Maire driving this and I think his compromise suggestion is for your benefit.

[timc17]

As far as i'm aware every recognised track or path is normally assigned the same Land Registry number as the land on which it's sits or is classed as a Chemin Rural (for the use of everyone in the commune). Our neighbour has a CR running past his back door and people do use this to reach the fields behind his house. The CR is clearly marked as such on the cadastre so it's not in dispute. As from Jan this year the cadastre for most of France is now available online. Perhaps this would be a good starting point for researching the path's history.

It would appear your mayor is under pressure from the locals but unless he can prove that the path is a CR he might well struggle to have your terrace demolished. My advice would be to consult a Notaire or Avocat a.s.a.p.

[swallowtail]

Thanks for that, a peaceful existence is what I am after, so I think a little more research is necessary in order to clarify the status of the path, and the outcome of this will determine any future action. Once again,thanks

[NormanH]

You are very sensible to seek a quiet life.

There is nothing to be gained by antagonising the Maire. I wonder if your Notaire did a proper job, and is now feigning ignorance.

Normally any "servitude de passage" ( like a right of way, and not at all as big as a chemin rural) is noted in the acte authentique in both senses..if you have one over neighbours' land, and if they have one over yours, and should have been brought to your attention at the reading of the acte when you signed.

If you read French ok you might like to look at this site:

http://www.jurisprudentes.org/bdd/faqs_article.php?id_article=2783

but note that it is not an official 'texte' just a site giving advice about these sorts of problems.

[woolybananasbrother]

There are loads of lengths of old footpaths and lanes which are dotted round most rural communes. Sometimes they are tidied up and sold off for nothing to the nearest landowner. Their status as right so way has never been tested but it generally accepted. Most are simply never used or forgotten about. It seems that you might be dealing with one of these.

Would it not be possible to designate a width of say two metres of land as an access path along the edge of your field and come to an agreement with the Maire that it will be a substitute?

[swallowtail]

To be honest, the land we bought is only about 20 mts long by 4 mts wide, and there are designated paths around us. This very small, and pretty insignificant piece of land is basically used as a shortcut to a couple of towers which are popular with locals and tourists. The mairie has asked for a designated width, or as he says, with wheelchair access. It is steep and in places quite rocky, and I would applaud anyone who gets up it in a quad bike let alone a wheelchair! For us, it  is something to grow herbs and flowers, and there is a small ruin attached which we were going to renovate into a terrace above, and storage for wood beneath. I will investigate all our options, but my gut feeling is we will have to compromise. The notaire, I believe, didn't do her job properly, as the last meeting we had with her, which also involved the mayor by telephone, she didn't charge us for. I think she felt somehow responsible. Anyway, we will see, there are many people with more pressing issues than us. I suppose the most worrying aspect is that we have an apparantely official path running through our terrace. So, the solution must be, for the mayor to rewrite the boundaries, give us our terrace officially, and he can have his wheelchair access.