Non French speakers

April 3, 2004

Hi,
We are planning to move to France later this year, however, my wife is a little concerned as we cannot speak French. Are we mad? Can we learn as we go?

Tell it like it really is

Patf · April 3, 2004

If you are hoping that you will find french people who understand english, it depends what area you're moving to. Also whether town or country. Where we are very few french people speak english and you would be lost without any french. You should try to learn pronunciation and basic vocabulary before you arrive. Libraries have language sections with tapes or cds plus book. The first few months are very heavy going language-wise while setting up house purchase, utilities etc. If you are thinking of looking for work french is essential unless you work entirely with expats. Good luck, but you also need to prepare carefully. Pat.

April 3, 2004

I`d say "Yes" but who cares!!
Buy the Michel Thomas CD`s and just go for it, If you make the effort you will get alot in return. Good luck and enjoy your new home!
Ronni

April 3, 2004

Thanks everyone for the advice - better get swatting then.

letrangere · April 4, 2004

>Hi,
>We are planning to move to
>France later this year, however,
>my wife is a little
>concerned as we cannot speak
>French. Are we mad?

Yes, absolutely.

Can
>we learn as we go?

No, and please do not believe anyone who tells you otherwise. If you're an intermediate or advance level speaker, you may well improve orally thanks to increased practice but you won't otherwise. Also be very wary of what you supposedly "pick-up", it could be grammatically incorrect and you may end up speaking a sort of pidgin language. In fact, I often hear Brits in France speaking this gobbledegook.

I'm afraid you really must start working hard NOW. Strangely, unless you're very lucky, you may find it easier to enrol in a good course in England than you will you in France. You do find English courses in rural France but it's pot luck as to whether there's one near you.

Your life in France will be so much easier and immeasurably more enjoyable if you can communicate with even the basics. And although these CDs, etc. have their place, unless you are extremely well motivated and accustomed to home learning, I would urge you to enrol in a proper course. If you are moving to France permanently, why not resign from your jobs in England a month or two earlier and enrol in a full time course? Learning the language really has to be top priority.

Bon courage.

Margaret

Sue Smith · April 4, 2004

Hi,
We moved to France a year ago with a vague smattering of "O" Level French. As yet, we have found no English speakers here (Nievre - 58) and no classes/courses (no call for them, of course!) We did have weekly lessons with a French friend for a while but, as she has decided to "retire," we are now desperately searching for another teacher. Our vocabulary has certainly grown and our confidence to "have a go" has increased. Shopping, restaurants, official-type meetings are OK but it's conversation with neighbours etc. that is really frustrating. The neighbours are wonderful, really welcoming and delighted that we battle on with our poor attempts at French. We have asked them to correct us - and they certainly do! However, we've found that French doesn't just arrive! Maybe it's because we're in our middle fifties (Children and younger people seem to be the ones who can just "absorb" a new language.) Anyway, we love our life here and wouldn't dream of returning to the UK. So, it's now down to the hard slog of trying to drastically improve our conversational French. We want to be able to socialise with our neighbours and take FULL part in the conversation. At the moment things are rather stilted and full of desperate attempts to explain ourselves clearly - all with good humour and friendliness, but frustrating all the same. I'll feel I've "made it" when I can have a good natter with my French friends - at the moment I have to wait for the arrival of UK visitors (who, you'll find, only tend to visit in the summer months!) Anyway, I'd say that you should go ahead with your plans but work really hard at acquiring the language.
Bon chance!
Sue.

Duckalaronze · April 4, 2004

We moved here 3 months ago with 'O-level' French. Yes, the people are great - friendly, helpful, and we are improving, but with our level of French we find it frustrating being unable to communicate - I think without any French you would find it incredibly difficult. You'd be ok with shopping etc, but when it came to (like we had to) getting a telephone installed, bank account, changing from 3-phase to single phase electricity, trying to find someone to repair the roof etc - things that you can do subconsciously in the UK - you might find it a real struggle. We find it quite tough with our limited vocabulary - having to draw straws as to who will phone the 'ramoneur' for example.
But...even with the difficulties we wouldn't go back to the UK now. Don't be daunted...learn as much as you can before you come over, don't worry toooooo much about grammar - communication is the important thing!
Bon courage!

Liz · April 4, 2004

>
>Tell it like it really is
>
Last week-end husband lost wallet with Carte de Sejour, Driving Licence and Bank Card. No idea what to do but, as always, first port of call the Mairie. Advised us to go to the Gendarmerie, which we did, to report the loss of the official documents. Information to be given and form to be filled in. For the Bamk Card off to La Poste to report loss and complete another form.

Last week plumber came to install new central heating boiler. All this previously aranged with written quotes which we had queries on from the various installers. Eventually selected the one we want and made 3 phone calls to get him here on the days we wanted. He's done a great job but there is still a leak. Phoned twice to get him back and he has come twice and re-welded the bit. Further leak. Is it the Groupe de Securit that is leaking, he asks me. I suspect it is and tell him so. He'll pick up a new one and come on Monday.

All part of life's rich tapestry. All conversations conducted in French. What would you do?

Liz (29)

salamander · April 4, 2004

The willingness to 'have a go' is worth millions! So don't worry if you don't know much to start with. You WILL pick it up if you want to.
Worst case scenario - our friends have lived happily in France for 4 years with little more than Bonjour, merci etc. It can be done - not the way I'd want to do it to get the most of living in a foreign country but it's do-able if needs must.

""Also be very wary of what you supposedly "pick-up", it could be grammatically incorrect and you may end up speaking a sort of pidgin language"" Sorry I've done this wrong to make a quote BUT REALLY! IT'S QUITE OK TO BE GRAMMATICALLY INCORRECT.

To manage to communicate is priority no 1. My major hurdle which held me back for years was that I didn't want to get it wrong. Big mistake. Get it wrong and be grammatically incorrect. But try to get your meaning across, that's what communication's all about. Plenty French people are grammatically incorrect.

Yes, you can learn as you go. Far, far better than not learning at all. But harder than learning before you come to France.

Bonne chance!

GRT17 · April 5, 2004

>Hi,
>We are planning to move to
>France later this year, however,
>my wife is a little
>concerned as we cannot speak
>French. Are we mad? Can
>we learn as we go?
>
>
>Tell it like it really is

Take a look at my posting on The Post Bag, the "On the black" thread.
If you can't speak the language at all I think you will find that living in France your life will be very limited.
Gill

April 5, 2004

mmm....

SO many conflicting viewpoints, some say "no way" some say "it can and has been done" well maybe I should throw in some extra info here.

Someone suggested I chuck-in the job a month early and enroll on a course in French speaking. Actually I don't need to chuck in the job at all, I work form home as an Software Developer, and y wife is an Artist. In england we don't mix with anyone much, don't speak to people other than at the shop counter, where converstaion is limited to "Thank you" as I get my card handed back to me. I shop with plastic, I buy from the Internet, I go into self-service supermarkets, I do my own house repairs, I deal with he bank on-line etc... When it boils down to it, apart from my boss and family phoning me, who do I speak to anyway. I suspect you can see where this going....

Now here's the difficulty. My wife is badly dyslexic. Just about any word over four characters long is like a barnd new word never seen before. Like a child learning from Janet and John books, she has to try to gather the word together, decide how to pronounce it and where the emphasis goes etc - so basically for her english is also a foreign language, and conversations often take on a humerous twist.

I take on board how hard and frustrating it can be at times - for example I get calls from people trying to sell me windows and cheap electricity or sometimes just the wrong number. I guess that will be hard to decide if it's in French, whether it is a junk call or the phone company threatening to cut off the phone because apparently I haven't paid the bill? Can get hard I know, but in general if I learn as much as I can before arriving, then spend a year not getting into too deep a mess by shopping at hyper-markets and using the internet, using software translation for more formal issues, etc as in england, it shoudn't get too rough I hope.

I don't want to avoid speaking French I just don't want to wait to become a linguistic expert first.

A little analogy...
I happen to be a computer expert. Have been working in IT even before the PC was invented, and Apple and Macintosh were two seperate companies - Phew tha's a long old time...Anyway my point is how many of you bought a computer before being expert? How many spent a year on a course before getting a compter. I suspect like the vast majority, you got your computere and learnt on the way, and I doubt that you will be as expert as me, but it doesn't stop you having good fun with it, and making very good use of it, does it?

Stuart · April 6, 2004

Dear Cneal

After reading some of the answers here, you might think that the only people who ever moved abroad were completely fluent and grammatically perfect. Well, I doubt very much if that is the real story.

Last night, we watched a replay of a "No Going Back" programme about a young builder who. with his wife and two girls, bought a large fishing lake in Brittany. None of the family spoke any French when they arrived but they didn't let that stand in their way. All four of them had the most positive attitude I have seen on any of these programmes and they put 100% effort into everything they tried. At first, they got by with the inevitable international sign language but, within a few months, they were able to attend meetings (in French) at their local Mairie - and understand what was being said.

We had a similar experience when we went to live and work in Greece. We could barely say "hello" and "how much" when we arrived and it took a lot of sweat and effort in the first 6 months to get to the stage where we could hold more than the most basic of conversations. However, after about 15 months, we were chatting about all sorts of things with all the locals. After 8 years, we still had to resort to a dictionary for the odd word and we had picked up the local slang and dialect. We would never pass a Greek O'Level but we were happy and accepted by the people that mattered.

I'd say that, if you are willing to give it your best shot, the locals will make all kinds of allowances for your inevitable mistakes. You can do it if you want.

Stuart

letrangere · April 7, 2004

As a "ps" I think you are to be congratulated for having posted a question that has - for the first time ever in this section? - achieved the magical status of 30+ replies. Quite an achievement for a section of the Forum that periodically disappears presumably because so little happens here.

Margaret

Penny29 · April 18, 2004

Hi,

Thought I would put in my ha'pennorth, for what it's worth:

Cneal - If you are going to regret doing sometjing regret that you DID it not that you didn't. In other words GO FOR IT!!!

If we all waited until we were perfect at something we would probably never attempt to do anything in life at all.

I came over here with O level French (learned way back when the old king was in nappies), but we have got by (at first), got better (after 6 months) and are now gradually improving. Yes, my grammer is awful, sometimes I am reduced to pidgin French, and I look forward to the day when I can finally have a proper conversation.............. but a smile, a sense of humour and the guts to TRY are worth more than all the paper qualifications in the world.

I also know one guy who came out here with NIL French and after 12 months he is speaking the lingo better than any of us - so it CAN be done.

Good luck

Penny

Teamedup · April 19, 2004

I came here with five words. We hadn't 'planned' on coming here particularly, a job came up and was taken and that was it. I have no natural talent for language and it was hard.

Husband came over first and I did go for a course of holiday french in the UK just before I came over, of which learning the alphabet was the most useful thing I gained from it. Even if you can't say the pronunciation of a particular word, it helps if you can spell it out properly. ie Reims in english 'reems', in french it is said 'rance', with a rolled 'r', sorry not a good everyday example, but the only one that came to mind.

If you are planning on coming then get some lessons of some sort and either leave a french radio station on all the time or if you can TV5. Doesn't matter that you can't understand, you hear the 'music' of the language without the pressure of having to either ask any questions or reply.

Quillan · April 19, 2004

I can remember a long time ago somebody posted the same question (I wonder how they got on) and I can remember at that time I could speak no French and I replied by saying so and that it didnt really effect me that much. I still cant speak much French although I have probably improved dramatically since arriving.

My attitude then was who cares, you can get by. Well you can when dealing with big stores, there is always somebody around who can speak a little English, but its the rest of life thats the problem.

18 months down the line and having had to deal with the authorities, like the taxman, Chamber of Commerce, CPAM and the rest I now strongly believe, having spent a lot of money on translators to come with me, that you do have to speak French and to a reasonable level. If you dont, not only can it make dealing with these people very difficult but you may end up paying a lot of money to the tax man etc that you didnt really have to.

Then theres the social side. There are a very few people in our village that speak English so our social circles were limited from the start (it widens dramatically once you start speaking French). Of course you can mix with the local Brit Pack but then you are somewhat limiting yourself and this is how The English Quarter starts in villages, we now officially have one in Quillan.

I see people are recommending the Michael Thomas CDs, I have to say that they are very good value for money (60 for the 8 CD set). Not only has it taught me most of my French (I took German at school) but my wife finds them very good for revision of her O Level school French.

I dont want to say dont come if you dont speak French but I would strongly advice you to buy something like the CD course mentioned, try the BBC website as well but do it now and carry on when you get here.

Best of Luck

Q

Cjb · July 22, 2004

In response to those that claim arriving with next to no french is a viable option I have to strongly disagree. Imagine yourself as a french person thinking of relocating to England without any english! There are those that claim that you'll pick things up as you go along. I'd be very interested to know just how good their french is. It's not an easy language to learn and is extremely precise in terms of grammar. Your best bet is to have 1-to-1 lessons before you arrive. Unfortunately schools have tended to prepare us for only communicating with waiters, train station staff etc.....
Before moving to France I had 6 months of 1-to-1 lessons. This is about enough to give you a very basic grasp of the language. If at all possible I would also encourage you to continue such lessons when you arrive in France. You really need a sound grammatical understanding of the language (provided through lessons) and the chance to regualrly practise your french, something that obtaining a sound basic understanding will allow you to access more easily.
I was fortunate to be married to a french girl, to have had 6 months of weekly 1-to-1 lessons in England and then taken a year out to study french (20 hours per week) in a language school over the course of 10 months. A combination of all three of these things has enabled me to reach a level of near fluency, although I still make mistakes. Don't expect to conquer the masculine/feminine thing within the first ten years!!
I appreciate that I am in a more fortunate position than most when it comes to learning french, but I feel this outlines the level of time and commitment required to learn the language.
I don't mean to make the task of learning the language seem too daunting, but you did ask for honest responses. In my view the whole purpose of living abroad is to enable us to integrate into the country in which we have chosen to live. Inevitably this means learning the language. People that tell you that certain nationalities have no sense of humour or quality cinema have no right to make such sweeping generalisations unless they take the trouble to learn the language of the people to whom they are refering.
Learning french can be a great experience and it will enable you to develop a whole new understanding of the country.
Some people claim that they've left it too late to learn. Try telling that to the 81 year old english guy who was in my class. His level of french would put the pidgeon french of most well established expats to shame.
Best of luck and don't forget the first thing we must lose if we are to successfully learn a language is our sense of pride. You will make mistakes. You will find that french people reply to you in English (although this may appear rude at first, I can assure you this is not their intention). You can reclaim your pride later on when you're able to develop meaningful relationships in a foreign language whilst watching fellow Brits ordering in very slow and loud English.

Richardrawlings · July 23, 2004

LAST EDITED ON 23-Jul-04 AT 06:03 PM (BST)

I am planning to move to Frnce and have got absolutly no intention of going anywhere until I can follow a conversation in French.

How would you know what they are saying when discussing important things. How would you know if they are not s****ing with some clause or other. If you are intending to set up a business how will you talk to your customers or are you only going to have English speaking customers. If you have to get a job how do you think you will fair against native speakers in a country with high umemployment. Not to mention all thoise other things that you need in day to day life. I think it would be a good way to become very isolated.

Incidentally I know for a fact that some Belgian and French people that live in the UK watch and listen to French stations so I see no problem with watching English stations in France.
But as listening to French is an intergral part of learning the language I would refrain from doing it as much as possible.

The French are very proud of their language and are always keen to help you learn and will take time IF you make the effort.

Richard

Lassie · July 24, 2004

Your question was "Am I mad". Frankly, Yes. if neither of you have any local support through a helpful estate agent, bilingual neighbours or a friendly expat neighbour, then its going to be tough. Possibly dangerous. How will you understand the traffic reports which say the roads are closed by snow, or fallen trees?
How will you report a power failure, forest fire? Or like today call in the 'Eau' because of a major 'fuite' in the basements of our block of flats? How do you 'live' in a country without knowing its politicians, its social structure, new laws that affect you? Getting by day to day is not like being on holiday. Its so sad seeing the Brits turning up at empty supermarket car parks because they didnt know it was a fete day, or letting market traders write down the price of apricots on their hands because they dont understand the words 'deux euros'. Want to look a wallY? Welcome to expatworld.

We have been here three years and still resist Satellite TV because otherwise we would learn nothing and not be able to communicate on a normal level with the people of France. Dont talk about who won Fame Academy last year. Its Star Academy here and it was Elodie who won.

We didnt start off with degrees in French or could afford one to one tuition. But there was some preparation done in the UK and you can start now, but still should expect several years of frustration and feeling impotent, unable to complain or present yourself as an intelligent being with a point to make.

Of all the aspects of living abroad, not being able to communicate effectively is the hardest so please don't under estimate it as we wish you all the best in your new life.

BJSLIV · July 24, 2004

An important distinction between France and the UK, which for me underlines the importance of speaking the lingo, is that the UK policy is to encourage Diversity whereas the French policy is towards Integration.

If you want to do something in France , you do it their way. If you can't understand the lingo you don't stand a chance of working out what that way is.

Stuart · July 25, 2004

>Hi,
>We are planning to move to
>France later this year, however,
>my wife is a little
>concerned as we cannot speak
>French. Are we mad? Can
>we learn as we go?
>
>
>Tell it like it really is
>

Cneal

I'm interested to know whether any of the posts that have been generated and the different points of view have helped you to come to a decision about your prospects? If so, do you want to share it with us?

Stuart

Non French speakers

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