How to?

[Monika]

How do you conjugate(?) the verb se souvenir (to remember), like venir, but it sounds funny? And how do you say, I look forward to.....?

[Richardrawlings]

Monika

Present tense

je me souviens

tu te souviens

il se souvient

nous nous souvenons

vous vous souvenez

 

To look forward to.

One way would be attendre avec impatience ie j' attends avec impatience or you could use j'hâte de +verb which is sort of I am in a hurry / eager to

 

Regards

Richard

[Vraititi<P>PSG till I die -fluctuat nec mergitur.<P>]

Monika, to answer yr first Q, le Bescherelle is the best Conjugaison book you could buy on the market, Carrefour and the likes will have it, 10 euros or so. It is probably one of the all-time best sellers in French publishing (30 yrs ago, we were given one at school in France !). If you buy it in the UK, the list of verbs at the back will also have the English translation (check amazon.co.uk)l

As for 'to look forward to', no straightforward answer I'm afraid, what Rich' says is spot on though. Most of the time it would have to be translated by: 'J'attends avec impatience'... or 'c'est avec impatience que j'attends...' or (a little more formal) 'j'ai hâte de'. Sometimes, it is simpler and more natural to French ears to translate it by using 'vivement'.

Have a look at the following translations:

I look forward to seeing you again (to a friend): J'ai vraiment hâte de te revoir/je suis impatient de te revoir. Or, simply: Vivement qu'on se revoit/retrouve !

Or (literature):  Il me presse de te revoir !

I look forward to Sunday !  Vivement dimanche !

I look forward to hearing from you (formal letter) Yours,

Dans l'attente de votre réponse, recevez, Monsieur, mes sincères salutations.

But also common to use: 'je m'en réjouis à l'avance' (for 'I look forward to it). There could be as many as 5 other ways to translate this phrase, also 'je me fais une fête de...' is reasonably used (a little posh maybe !)

 

What context did you want to use that phrase ?                                        

[Teamedup]

I wouldn't be without my Bescherelle Conjugaison, on sale in supermarkets and librairies. I admit that I needed  a bit of help on how to use it though.

[Monika]

[quote]Monika, to answer yr first Q, le Bescherelle is the best Conjugaison book you could buy on the market, Carrefour and the likes will have it, 10 euros or so. It is probably one of the all-time best sel...[/quote]

I want to write an e-mail to my neighbours saying: I remember you telling me.... (so: je me souviens vous me disiez que... is that right!)

And then: We look forward for the builders to start on our house, so we can come and stay.....

So which one would be the most appropriate phrase to use?

Thank you

[Vraititi<P>PSG till I die -fluctuat nec mergitur.<P>]

Monika, sorry for not answering earlier, I've been very busy today. Anyway, here is the best translation to your 2 phrases:

Je me souviens que vous m'aviez dit que... (EXPLANATION: 'you (were) telling me' here is not really a 'pure' continuous past, rather a spoken version of 'that you told me that')

('Je me souviens que vous me disiez que' is also perfectly correct but slightly strange here as the fact that (s)he told you was very brief -your version is fine, no mistake, but it is spoken French, with a pause in the middle)

'We look..........stay' (is it our house or your house ?), anyway if it's 'your':

Vivement que les travaux de votre maison commencent pour que nous puissions venir y séjourner !

if it's 'our': the same but 'notre' instead of 'votre'

Au plaisir, le Titi.

[Monika]

[quote]Monika, sorry for not answering earlier, I've been very busy today. Anyway, here is the best translation to your 2 phrases: Je me souviens que vous m'aviez dit que... (EXPLANATION: 'you (were) tellin...[/quote]

Thank you so much for all your help, my neighbours will be very impressed.

[letrangere]

you could use j'hâte de +verb which is sort of I am in a hurry / eager to

I picked this up from a French teacher years ago and have used it ever since.  But it isn't that commonly taught, is it?  In fact, only yesterday I used this phrase in writing to a French educated Lebanese national who wrote back asking what I meant by it.  M

[Richardrawlings]

It came up while working for the interpreting exam about 4 weeks ago I had never thuoght abut some of the phrases that I would need, particularly that one.

R

[Vraititi<P>PSG till I die -fluctuat nec mergitur.<P>]

I can understand why yr Lebanese friend did not click straight away when you used   'J'ai hâte de + verb'   as it is not massively used  in French but, nevertheless I am a little surprised that he did not know what you meant as this construction is not exactly rare. The register of language here ('J'ai hâte de') corresponds to what is called 'académique' and therefore not used by everybody. Indeed, it would be slightly odd in spoken French to use it in an ordinary conversation.    It looks like this set phrase is NOT readily understood by non-native speakers (even those with an excellent command of French, such as the Lebanese people). In fact, I would surmise that a small % of French native speakers might not always understand it either. We really need dictionaries that would indicate the frequency of use of such phrases !

The phrase 'I look forward to' is a staple of translation exams as it is a well-known difficulty for would-be translators, so beware ! Which one did you take Richard, wouldn't it be the IOL exam by any chance ?

[letrangere]

We really need dictionaries that would indicate the frequency of use of such phrases !

But don't even the most learned French often refer to a dictionary?  It's something that comes as bit of a shock to us students initially.  A native French teacher friend told me that she always carries her Larousse le Verificateur d'orthographe in her bag and regularly consults her Bescherelle too.

You mention "register".  I had a teacher in Paris who placed considerable emphasis on this and it's something that's remained with me ever since.  Most of us were working towards the DALF, many towards French university entrance.  He repeatedly reminded us that R2 was the minimum accepted standard of French for an examiner in the oral exams, R3 preferably for the written papers.  Any hint of R1 and we were finished.  (For those who are new to this:  R1 would include polite colloquial, plus less polite, slang, etc., R2 would be the equivalent of what used to be known as "BBC English" (tho' arguably no longer the case), R3 is much more scholarly.) 

Was this teacher an exception or is register still regarded as important today in France, even away from academic and/or professional circles?  I suspect it is but stand corrected.

M

[Vraititi<P>PSG till I die -fluctuat nec mergitur.<P>]

Absolutely, the 'registre' used to be mightily important. It went from 'argotique' to 'académique' / 'soutenu' and you were often reminded of its existence. As I studied English, it became a source of fascination to me, trying not only to use the right word but in the right register as well, which of course was nigh on impossible as dictionaries do not tell you that, only practice and experience matter here. And how fussy some teachers were ! With hindsight, they were a joy to behold. One of them, Professor Wechter was extraordinary, he used to deduct points for 'common' mistakes, wrong 'registre' and the likes, you'd soon end up with a 'thème' (translation French>English) marked 'minus 25' !!! I remember only cold Monday session when he gave us back our 'thèmes' where he had a right go at us (25 petrified students) for being 'lamentables, indignes d'être en Licence', I think the best mark that day was 'minus 2'... It was to give us a lesson no doubt, as many of us tended to be a little cocky and would take shortcuts with such important issues as 'the right language at the right time with the right people', which is partially what the register of language stands for.

Yes, a dictionary or exhaustive glossary type is necessary in French if you work in that field, not pompous at all. As is a grammar book, we used to have 'Le Littré' with us all the time at the Fac de Lettres, probably a little old fashioned, but given the complexity of the French grammar and its numerous exceptions, contradictions, 'nonsensical' rules, etc. it is almost obligatory, what with all the agreements and the C.O.D's (complément d'objet direct), etc. especially when it come with the auxiliary 'avoir', a nightmare. I do not live in France so I can't ascertain how important this register is today, probably not as prominent as it was 25 yrs ago. In my old days, I hope to write a glossary of 'colloquial/everyday' English<>French WITH an indication of frequency of use, maybe by a system of stars, I personally think that the market is crying out for such a thing.

[Teamedup]

Vraititi and MWJ I cannot help but wonder how many members of this board understand what you were talking about and it's implications in real life.

I understand and think it is a very odd thing. My argotique is my strong point, should I put it like that.

 

Also VT,some professeurs still believe in the negative enforcement theory of giving out minus marks on work. How this is really supposed to encourage is beyond my imagination, I just cannot see how it can work. 

[Tourangelle]

I remember one lecturer I had a university (who was French) would systematically give everybody 39 (when 40 was the pass mark) for the first translation of the year. Not exactly pédagogie d'encouragement.

I followed the debate on register with interest. I suppose a very real example of register that many forum members will have come across is in the formal letter.

[Vraititi<P>PSG till I die -fluctuat nec mergitur.<P>]

Oh, Teamedup , you' be surprised ! you are underestimating our fellow forum users by quite some way.

And, bon sang, this is a laid-back forum you've entered Man, not an arena ! It's bad for one's health to be 'coincé' ya know.

Now, have a guess, what register of language have I just used there ?

[letrangere]

I hope to write a glossary of 'colloquial/everyday' English<>French WITH an indication of frequency of use, maybe by a system of stars, I personally think that the market is crying out for such a thing.

It most certainly is.  I searched high and low for such a book and drove successive profs crazy asking for recommendations.  No one in Paris could come up with anything suitable (surprisingly) but eventually on a trip back to London I found a Cambridge University Press book in Dillons entitled "Using French, A Guide to Contemporary Usage" written by Batchelor & Offord.  As it says in the forward, "It not only clarifies points of usage and grammar, but shows the circumstances in which words, expressions, grammatical constructions, and so on, are most appropriate."  Until Vraititi's work is published, I can thoroughly recommend this!  M

[Vraititi<P>PSG till I die -fluctuat nec mergitur.<P>]

Well, chapeau bas MWJ for having 'dégoté' (register: colloquial. To 'find, to come across smthg, sometimes unexpectedly', usage rate: 18/20, approx. translation: to fish out, to dig up)       such a useful book ! 

I just knew such a book must have existed somewhere, I'll look up the ISBN later on. In Paris, did you try 'La Maison du Dictionnaire' 98 boulevard Montparnasse ?

[Teamedup]

LOL Vraititi, I know there are brits who are littéraire and have a talent for languages too. And there are a few  such people on this board, please note, I say a few and I'm not one of them.

I'm not littéraire and  I have no talent for language (english included), I'm not unusual, unique by any means. I have trouble décortiquer'ing, all those nuances the verbs have here. I can but do my best and continue learning.

Someone like me lives their life with lots of R1 and a bit R2 thrown in, and a lot of that par hasard. R3, forget it. I'll never get there. And I know quite a few french people who won't either.

I look on it like this, I'm a paysanne and those who can R3 are artisto's. I don't tip my hat to the artiso's. Just accept that we are all different.

[Vraititi<P>PSG till I die -fluctuat nec mergitur.<P>]

I'm sorry Teamedup but I fail to understand your point, what do you mean when you urge me to 'accept that we are all different' ? I'm well aware of that fact and, to me, the more different we all are, the better !  What did I say to make you think that I thought otherwise ? I did advise you in jest to lighten up on yr previous post as you were starting, in my view and based on yr previous post, to have a go at me and the other participants to this topic on language and register of French. The register of language and its implications are certainly NOT an academic-type topic of discussion, quite the opposite. Academics rarely discuss that sort of things, believe me ! The difficulties linked to the right choice of register of language affect us all when we speak or try to understand our second langauge and if you're learning French, you must obviously be aware of this.                                                              When at university learning English I remember being mysteriously 'incapable' of understanding just ordinary discussions whenever I would visit anglophone countries, and it was not just the accent. I talked to my Uni teachers about this and consequently about the need, maybe, to have a course/module on precisely this, on 'the sort of vocab. that us students should also learn' (colloquial, slang, everyday lang., vernacular, etc.) on top of all the 'standard' English that we were ingurgitating week in week out. My request was swiftly turned down and even ridiculed by one of 2 academics. You know, I've forgotten many things about my sozzled university days, but this episod I shall never forget, me 22 yrs old, being told by all and sundry that I was a good speaker of English and NOT understanding a flipping word on many occasions in England, Ireland, Canada or the US during my visits, and me enquiring to my professors as to why, why on earth couldn't we do smthg about this parlous state of affairs in our French unis (i.e NOT learning the language that people spoke). I remember being replied to, by some respected and eminent professors that 'it was not possible' and (by others) basically politely TOLD OFF for being so irreverencious... In truth, I worked out that many    of these professors were quite incapable themselves of understanding basic 'pub' English, hence their embarassment... In fairness, one or 2 did try to inject some colloquial English into their lectures (through Pinter's plays or Salinger's books) but it was all very timid. Thank God, I had some excellent British and US mates who helped me to get to grips with 'the real English', when and when not to use it, and, more importantly who to use it with !  Many of these 'pure' language teachers (as opposed to the literature/civilisation/linguistic/etc. ones who were better) continued to spurt forth their nonsense while serving their narrow-minded brand of English on unsuspecting students for decades and it still rankles with me to think that the powers-that-be in our Unis utterly fail to see the real needs of language students. Anyway, you and I are probably very similar in our outlook on language, you know, in that we're both obviously into languages and keen to learn I'm sure. I'm not particularly talented myself, it's just that English/languages are my passion really (other than football), and that's what I've been doing full time (and teaching) for 25 yrs. I'm sure that I have the same process of thought as you have with French when I speak English, namely that I must ensure that I am correctly matching my type of English to the type of person/people that I have in front of me, be it a pupil, an adult, a 6th former, a foreigner, my boss, what have you. We all have to make these choices. 

If you knew me, you'd realise pretty quickly that I am not an 'artisto' as you so wrongly surmise, far from it (!), more a laborious grafter like, and certainly not an academic, of the pompous or non-pompous type. Nor am I fan of lofty language terms although I do like to know (euphemism really) what words, any word, mean and know a bit about their origins and etymology at times. It is after all, Teamedup, a forum on Language !!! Well, you wouldn't wonder what knitters are doind talking needles in a Crochet forum, would you ?

Well, ici Madame, we are the lovers of language, littéraire, argotique, poétique, académique, culinaire, whatever. When you love your own/second language, you love it all, lock, stock and wine barrel.       Ici, on tricote de la langue, on tricote notre propre langage. We are all learning here as you pointed out. Some of us learners, some 'Masters', who cares, we're all here to share. Because we have to think and talk in our second language, we engage in a complex process, even with basic language. You do it, I do it, we all do it. Nous sommes tous des 'artisans-traducteurs'.

[Teamedup]

I'm sorry if you think that I imagined that you personally as being an artisto. It isn't that. As you said these things are not discussed and I do have a tendancy to name the un named to assist myself in  making sense of things.

 

If you can think of some very simple way of explaining this, then maybe I'll use your description instead.

 

And I should have said:  'I' just accept that we are all different.

[Richardrawlings]

Vraititi

 "Which one did you take Richard, wouldn't it be the IOL exam by any chance ?"

Sorry nothing so grand just A2 interpreting paper only lasted 15mins but it weas enough

Richard

[letrangere]

I'll look up the ISBN later on.

Woops, an oversight on my part:   0-521-44821-2

In Paris, did you try 'La Maison du Dictionnaire' 98 boulevard Montparnasse

No, I didn't.  Whereabouts is 98 on this longish street?  Will check it out later in the month.

M

[Vraititi<P>PSG till I die -fluctuat nec mergitur.<P>]

Thanks M, it is about 300 yrds or so from metro Vavin (line 4) walk towards the Tour Montpar', it is the Mecca for dictionary lovers. If you've still got time after spending hours in there as I sometimes do, and as your intellectual pursuits will have dried your 'gosier' up no doubt, you could do worse than have a bite and a 'bolée' de cidre at one hell of a creperie nearby, la Creperie de Josselin, in the rue du Montparnasse (not Boulevard), number 65 or 67 can't remember, very close to the librairie, the best crepes in Paris, and huge ! Plenty of Breton creperies in that part of Paris which used to be the first port of call of the Bretons (hence their massive presence around Gare Montparnasse) when they started to pour into Paris (circa 1880) in search of work. But that one takes some beating ! If shut, or full, head for rue Delambre, the HQ for Bretons in Paris, plenty of lovely creperies there and bars, I recommend the one at La Mission Bretonne, which doubles up as Breton Cultural Centre.