Missy Posted July 5, 2005 Share Posted July 5, 2005 L’ordinateurDans une école anglaise, un prof de français essaie d’expliquer à sa classe que les noms communs en français sont soit masculin : The pencil=LE crayon, soit féminin : The house=LA maison.Un élève lui demande : « C’est féminin ou masculin : the computer ? »Au lieu de donner la réponse le prof partagea la classe en 2 groupes. L’un avec toutes les filles et l’autre avec tous les garçons. Chaque groupe devait débattre de la chose et donner 4 raisons pourquoi.Le groupe des garçons décida que ‘the computer’ DEVAIT être féminin car :1/ Personne, sauf leur créateur, ne peut comprendre leur logique et façon de raisonner.2/ Le langage utilisé par ces machines, afin de communiquer avec d’autres ordinateurs, est incompréhensible pour la plupart des gens.3/ Même les plus petites des fautes faites, est mémorisée sur mémoire à long terme pour être disponible à une date ultérieure.4/ Aussitôt en possession d’une de ces machines, on débourse la moitié de son salaire en accessoires inutiles.Le groupe des filles décida que ‘the computer’ DOIT être masculin car :1/ Pour faire quoique ce soit avec eux, il faut les allumer.2/ Ils ont beaucoup de données acquises mais ne peuvent pas se débrouiller par eux-mêmes.3/ Ils sont supposés à résoudre vos problèmes, mais la plupart du temps EUX sont le problème en question.4/ Aussitôt acheter, on réalise que si on avait su attendre un peu plus longtemps on aurait pu avoir le plus nouveau des modèlesSo what do you think?.....!!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deby Posted July 5, 2005 Share Posted July 5, 2005 Missyesbut,Very good! Je crois l'ordinateur est féminin,c'est mon avis.Deby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tourangelle Posted July 5, 2005 Share Posted July 5, 2005 Slightly off topic, but the one I can never get my head round, even though I know it, is: le féminisme. Also how "gens" has to take the feminine form of the adjective if the adjective goes before. Sometimes French is just too weird! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vraititi<P>PSG till I die -fluctuat nec mergitur.<P> Posted July 5, 2005 Share Posted July 5, 2005 Indeed, I can't quite get my head around it either and, sometimes, pondering and wondering and despairing out loud of the fools who invented these rules and exceptions, such as the one you've picked up on, i.e feminine adj. in front of 'gens', mostly used in the well-used (mostly journalistic and literary) phrase 'les petites gens' (meaning 'people of very modest means'). Maybe it is euphonic in this case, what does the Grevisse say about this one ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Smith Posted July 5, 2005 Share Posted July 5, 2005 Ah, the old problem of confusing sex and gender...And don't forget that tomorrow is National Kissing Day! Could be problematic... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vraititi<P>PSG till I die -fluctuat nec mergitur.<P> Posted July 5, 2005 Share Posted July 5, 2005 Well Dick, we should deem ourselves lucky that words aren't allowed a sex change at all by the Quai de Conti ! (Académie Française). The venerable immortals are far too prudish for that ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teamedup Posted July 5, 2005 Share Posted July 5, 2005 How do they decide when a new word arrives as to what gender it will forever hold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vraititi<P>PSG till I die -fluctuat nec mergitur.<P> Posted July 5, 2005 Share Posted July 5, 2005 Oh, rien de plus facile. The uber-trendy blokes (not) at the 'Commission Générale de Terminologie et Néologie', created in 1996 si je ne m'abuse, and working under the aegis of the Académie Française, will meet, look at what funky new word has appeared out of nowhere of late, make a few phone calls to people swotting up in various specialised language committees (people far more knowledgeable and better informed than themselves), and decide on the official sex of the new word. Then, it'll usually be ratified by the Journal Officiel (sort of 'Hansard', but more exhaustive). If you're interested into the 'sex' of the new terms, check out the following informative link:http://chiennesdegarde.org/article.php3?id_article=51a now famous movement in France (Les Chiennes de garde) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Missy Posted July 6, 2005 Author Share Posted July 6, 2005 [quote]Slightly off topic, but the one I can never get my head round, even though I know it, is: le féminisme. Also how "gens" has to take the feminine form of the adjective if the adjective goes before. So...[/quote]In this context 'les gens' is neither feminin nor masculin.'pour la plupart des gens' = for most of the people.Same as 'pour la plupart du temps il fait beau en juin' = for most of the time there is nice weather in June La plupart = for most (part) of the ...Gens is always used in the plural, otherwise known as a collective noun.Le féminisme = think of it and translate it as an ideal, a state of being, as 'le mouvement féministe' However, US THE Women!, can only think that such pedantic semantic will have been dreamt up by a man!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Notice how men outnumber women in this hallowed place 'L'Académie Française' the repository of correct French language!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Another quirk of the French language, why :le foie = the liver but la foi = the faith ?Because one sees at the end of 'foie' an 'e' as in 'l'oie' (the goose-feminin in french!) logic would tell you it is feminin word and as foi (faith) doesn't have an 'e' then a masculin word.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tourangelle Posted July 13, 2005 Share Posted July 13, 2005 and indeed (just going off on a pronuciation tangent) Foix, what's that nursery rhyme/tongue twister, something about une fois un marchand de foie, dans la ville de Foix... anybody know?I understand the nature of gens, what I don't get is why it is les petites gens, or les bonnes gens, but, for example, des gens curieux. It must be something historical. Are there any others like that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vraititi<P>PSG till I die -fluctuat nec mergitur.<P> Posted July 13, 2005 Share Posted July 13, 2005 What did you find in yr Grevisse about 'les gens' ? (mine's in Paris). It is, indeed, a very strange word when it comes to adjectival agreements, much like a sozzled Big Brother contestant on Week 10 it is moody to the extreme and suffers from a severe disorder to decide which gender to go for (feminine before, masculine after). I reckon the reason at the basis of it is euphonic as it is easier to say 'les vieilles gens' than 'les vieux gens', 'les curieuses gens' than 'les curieux gens', etc. Such is human nature that centuries ago some lazy erudite must have decided that it was preferable to choose the path of least resistance rather than trying to spurt out smthg which is a bit of a mouthful. That is purely my interpretation, I've never delved into the subject. I am sure that there are a few other such cases but off the top of my (tired) head I can only think of 'amour' which has a similar shifty bisexual nature (ou 'des moeurs louches'). Check out its subtleties in yr dico.As for nursery rhymes, I use www.momes.net/comptines with younger learners of French, there's a whole list divvied up by categories, 100's of them (words + music with some).The comptine about Foix is one of the most famous ones, words below.La ville de Foix, un peu plus au sud dans les Pyrénées, a inspiré cette comptine bien connue des enfants: Il était une fois, une marchande de foie qui vendait du foie dans la ville de Foix. Elle se dit: "Ma foi, c'est la dernière fois que je vends du foie dans la ville de Foix." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bizzyliz Posted July 13, 2005 Share Posted July 13, 2005 What a wonderful website! Merci mille fois, Vraititi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vraititi<P>PSG till I die -fluctuat nec mergitur.<P> Posted July 14, 2005 Share Posted July 14, 2005 Delighted to see that the older learners appreciate it just as much... Discerning learners, mature and immature, I salute you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teamedup Posted July 14, 2005 Share Posted July 14, 2005 It was lovely to see my favourite nursery song on the site, Tombe Tombe Tombe la Pluie. I like the rain so was happy to learn with my kids such a cheery song about rain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anton Redman Posted July 14, 2005 Share Posted July 14, 2005 La vie et dure Le vin et cherLes enfants sont facile a faire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vraititi<P>PSG till I die -fluctuat nec mergitur.<P> Posted July 14, 2005 Share Posted July 14, 2005 Bravo, de bon ton Anton ! Mais attends Anton, entends-tu ton tonton Vraititi ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loiseau Posted July 15, 2005 Share Posted July 15, 2005 I am sure that there are a few other such cases but off the top of my (tired) head I can only think of 'amour' which has a similar shifty bisexual nature ....---------------------------------------------------Yes, if I remember rightly, "amour", "délice" and "orgue" are M in the singular and F in the plural. Angela Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vraititi<P>PSG till I die -fluctuat nec mergitur.<P> Posted July 16, 2005 Share Posted July 16, 2005 Yes, finely observed loiseau but 'délice' slightly changes its meaning when switching gender (OK I'm splitting hairs here) which is not the case of the other bisexual weirdos (amours, orgue). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tourangelle Posted July 18, 2005 Share Posted July 18, 2005 [quote]What did you find in yr Grevisse about 'les gens' ? (mine's in Paris). It is, indeed, a very strange word when it comes to adjectival agreements, much like a sozzled Big Brother contestant on Week 10 ...[/quote]Grevisse says it is not easy, which coming from Grevisse is saying a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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