quel que soit

[seb47]

We've heard this phrase so many times recently, but are struggling to understand it.

Help please?

[M]

It's present subjunctive of être - 'Whatever may be...'

M

[Pads]

Not sure if this is right , but I think its  the youth saying:

Whatever !! 

[seb47]

Yes - that makes sense now I think about it! Stupid me. Thanks both of you. Just watching Jamie Oliver - maybe he'll finish off with 'quel que soit'!

[Tourangelle]

unlikely, it is quite posh!

[allanb]

It may be the Jamie Oliver "whatever" but it's much more useful than that : as M says -

il travaille dans le jardin quel que soit le temps

he works in the garden whatever the weather  or  whatever the weather may be  or  in all kinds of weather

tu ne peux pas faire ça ici, quelle que soit la raison

you can't do that here, whatever the reason  or  no matter what the reason is  or  for any reason at all

 

[seb47]

Thanks Allanb - that's a really clear explanation. I'll be trying to fit that phrase in as much as possible - and more important - I will remember what it means.

Any follow on with commonly met colloquial phrases?

[Tourangelle]

It is really not the Jamie Oliver whatever, because you can't say it on its own.  Before anybody tells me that you are not supposed to say whatever on its own either, that's not the point, "whatever" is said by others than J Oliver but quel que soit really can't be.

[Clair]

If you wanted to say the equivalent of "whatever" (as used in as dismissive manner), you could say "n'importe quoi!", which is short for "tu racontes n'importe quoi!"meaning "you're talking complete rubbish" or "you'd say anything".

[Frenchie]

When I'm in England and I want to say " N'importe quoi!!" I can never find an equivalent... So .... I say it in French .. [:$]

[Christine Animal]

What next !  could be similar, but it is difficult to find the equivalent.

 

[Cendrillon]

[quote user="Frenchie"]When I'm in England and I want to say " N'importe quoi!!" I can never find an equivalent... So .... I say it in French .. [:$][/quote]

 

"no matter what" or " no matter"

[allanb]

Since we're on the subject, I have often wondered what the "final" whatever actually means.  It seems unfair to blame it on J Oliver, but I think it really means I'm getting bored with this conversation but I can't think of any intelligent way to end it.

[seb47]

[quote user="Clair"]If you wanted to say the equivalent of "whatever" (as used in as dismissive manner), you could say "n'importe quoi!", which is short for "tu racontes n'importe quoi!"meaning "you're talking complete rubbish" or "you'd say anything".
[/quote]

Clair, and allanb "I'm getting bored with this conversation but I can't think of any intelligent way to end it"

So dare I say that when Agen CPAM phone us to say they actually do want 2006 revenue and not 2007 as previously indicated?

 

[Clair]

[quote user="seb47"]

[quote user="Clair"]If you wanted to say the equivalent of "whatever" (as used in as dismissive manner), you could say "n'importe quoi!", which is short for "tu racontes n'importe quoi!"meaning "you're talking complete rubbish" or "you'd say anything".

[/quote]

Clair, and allanb "I'm getting bored with this conversation but I can't think of any intelligent way to end it"

So dare I say that when Agen CPAM phone us to say they actually do want 2006 revenue and not 2007 as previously indicated?

[/quote]

You only can decide whose need is more important... yours or theirs? [Www][:)]

[Tourangelle]

whatever is a lot more relaxed than n'importe quoi, which could really give offence!

[allanb]

[quote user="seb47"]... allanb "I'm getting bored with this conversation but I can't think of any intelligent way to end it"

So dare I say that when Agen CPAM phone us to say they actually do want 2006 revenue and not 2007 as previously indicated?

[/quote]

You've lost me here.  I was referring to the British habit of saying "whatever" at the end of a sentence, with nothing to follow.

I can't imagine the CPAM ending a conversation by saying "whatever" in English!  What did they actually say?

[seb47]

Sorry Allan - it was just me making a very stupid flippant remark. They haven't actually said anything yet!

[just john]

As I understand it there are several ways of saying whatever (normal tone = nothing important, anything goes etc)
at the end of a statement, red or blue whatever (normal tone = it doesn't matter what colour etc)
and of course ''what . . ev. .er'' (dismissive, raising tone at end = what you have to say is irrelevant) !

 

[allanb]

[quote user="Tourangelle"]whatever is a lot more relaxed than n'importe quoi, which could really give offence!

[/quote]I'm not sure how n'importe quoi could give offence; it seems to me fairly normal French for "anything at all", "whatever you like", "it doesn't matter what", e.g. -

What shall we do this afternoon?  - Whatever you like! (or perhaps "whatever" on its own)

Qu'est-ce qu'on va faire cet après-midi?  - N'importe quoi!

What would you like as a Christmas present?  - Anything will do!

Qu'est-ce que tu voudrais comme cadeau de Noël?  - N'importe quoi!

You can also use it in a complete sentence, so the second answer could be -

Je serai content de recevoir n'importe quoi.

I'll be happy to get anything at all.

(It may be a foolish thing to say, but I don't think it's offensive.)

[Clair]

In the examples quoted above, there is clearly no offence.

However, n'importe quoi can be very offensive in other occasions. Take my word for it [:)]

[allanb]

I'm going to be worried now every time I use it!  Can you give an example?

[Clair]

OK...

Picture the scene...

Teenager being told something 'whatever...) by his mother. He thinks he knows better but does not have the verbal skills (or patience or knowledge) to express his opinion. He shuts down the conversation with "n'importe quoi!" and turns his head towards the telly...

or his mother walks away muttering "N'importe quoi..." shaking her head with frustration...

[allanb]

Ah, well, I 've always realized that there are special rules for communicating with teenagers.