Problem With The Bank

[BenryGale]

I leased a house just outside Paris while waiting on my home in the UK

to sell. My buyer was fine and it was just a matter of lining up the

dates.

I used a home finder agency who found one house which I was seriously thinking of buying at the time.

During the first viewing a small detail came up, it meant nothing at

the time but it's a major pain at the moment. We noticed that there was

a minor problem with the floor in one room, not a major one, just a

small air bubble where it wasn't put down correctly. Both the owner,

the agent and myself were all aware of this.

There was also a tree in the garden, one half of the tree was fine, the

other half was getting too much sun and had no greenery. I noticed it

but since I'm not into tree surgery, I didn't pay much attention to it.

So anyway, we rented etc. but we had to give them a years rent in

advance, stored in a secure bank account that no one can touch. Along

with a seperate three months deposit.

Just under a year later, I was offered a job in England. I informed the

rental agency that I was leaving France, I gave them three months

notice (as I am required to do) And they did an inventory to make sure

the house was in the same condition as when I first moved in.

They said that six weeks after I moved out, the secure account would be opened up and sent to me. That was four months ago.

I've been dealing with the banks for months and still nothing.

Yesterday my bank manager said that he had been trying to transfer the

money to me for the past three days, it kept bouncing back....oh wait

it just went through (but it may bounce back again).

I'm sure he's just lying, I don't believe that he was trying and

bouncing, but it just happened to work when I called, that just sounds

like an excuse.

But the best part is, the sixteen thousand I had in that account, is now down to fifteen thousand for two reasons.

Reason one: Damage was done to the house, they are deducting money for

that air bubble in the floor that was there when I moved in. They are

claiming I caused that.

They also claim that a tree was dying and the grass wasn't properly

cut. Even though I cut the grass the week I left and the tree was in

the same condition as when I moved in.

I'm sure they are just finding any way they can to milk me for money, I

contacted my agent and requested to see receipts for what I paid for

but have yet to receive them. (apparently it cost €300 to cut the

grass...seriously?)

Reason two: Remember I gave three months notice, well, I asked my bank

to cancel my direct debit for the rent. They didn't do this and

continued to send money to my rental agency after I left. So because

they forgot to cancel a direct debit like I told them, my account went

into an overdraft and they are now billing me for that.

Oh yeah, when I first set up my account I asked them not to install an overdraft facility.

So because they put something into my account that I didn't ask for and

because they didn't cancel a direct debit like I instructed them, I'm

now paying them for their own incompetence.

The worst part is, all the so called damage to the house. I paid for

that out of my current account. But my bank is also deducting it from

my secure account. I'm being billed twice. I would consider this theft,

incompetence and a complete lack of ethics on the parts of my bank and

rental agency.

I still haven't received my 15 or 16 thousand. Does anyone have any

suggestions because I am considering taking this up as a legal matter.

So any suggestions? Where do I turn?

[giantpanda]

Hi!

Mostly the error most expats make, it that they do not make ( either or both )

- Etat des lieux d'Entrée

-Etat des lieux de Sortie

http://vosdroits.service-public.fr/particuliers/F2179.xhtml

That really should be done noting absolutely everything with is wrong, or has been previously damaged.

The compensation due to the owner is based on this.

And if one is missing, then one can take advantage of this, and keep the security.

Yours,

giantpanda

PS. Without these 2 documents, you do not stand much a chance legally.

[PaulT]

Also take a photographic record, have two copies and get one signed by the other party and you could sign the other set and hand it over. That way you will have it in writing and also visually.

Paul

[BenryGale]

Yes I have those documents and photocopies. But those details were missing on the original documents. It's not something you would notice, unless you walk over the exact part of the floor with the air bubble, you won't make a note of it. I did, my agent did, the woman I was renting from did at the time, but now says otherwise. Unfortunately whoever did the inventory, missed that spot.

[Patf]

I can't comment on the legal rights and wrongs, but with such a serious situation I would say you really need to speak to the agent and bank people face to face.

Make appointments and go over there. If necessary take a french speaking legal person to the interviews.

Is there such a thing as a banking ombudsman in France?

[allanb]

[quote user="BenryGale"]...I asked my bank

to cancel my direct debit for the rent. [/quote]

Did you do this in writing?  If you did, you may have some recourse against the bank, depending on how your request was worded.  There is a Banque de France regulation which banks sometimes pretend not to know about, but it may help you (I am speaking from personal experience here).[quote]They didn't do this and

continued to send money to my rental agency after I left. So because

they forgot to cancel a direct debit like I told them, my account went

into an overdraft and they are now billing me for that.[/quote]However, even if I'm right, I think it will only offer you the chance to recover some of the bank charges.  Unfortunately, it won't help with the dispute over the house.  In other words, if the bank had cancelled your direct debit, you would still have had a claim against you (right or wrong) from the person who thought he should have received the payment. 

[BenryGale]

Unfortunately no, I didn't do it in writing. I did it face to face and my bank manager acknowledged it...then forgot. I really wish I had written a letter instead of seeing him face to face.

I realise that the claim of damage from the house is a seperate issue, I'm trying to deal with that by asking them to produce receipts for this €300 grass cutting.

But as far as I can tell, my bank charged me twice. First the rental agency billed me for the damage and that came out of my current account, that's pretty normal. Then when my bank opened the secure account, they read the rental agency's report and said "Oh look, damage was done to the house, lets deduct that" and so I'm paying for the same thing twice.

[woody234]

when you rent a property in the UK and maybe france, the landlord or eastate agent trick is to say the property is damaged or watever to keep the deposit, i moved out of a studio flat in the uk and they said they had to get proffesional cleaners in for £298 and i would get the rest so the deposit was 300 so i got £2 back, but that was in 1998 and the trick  mite have change now

[ams]

Looking from the other side, we always do an etat des lieux on entry 12 pages long and exit 8 pages long. It takes about two hours each time.  We insure that every detail of the condition of the house/apartment is noted and leave room for the tenent to include any notes that they want inserted, should they discover something different than what we have listed.

 

We found that we always had disputes when we used an agent for the entry etat and used ours for the exit. Generally the entry etat was of a general nature. Since we have used our own detailed entry and exit etat the problems have all gone with one exception. We had one french renter sign the exit etat and agree to all of the damage noted and sign each page and damaged area, to then dispute the amount deducted and disagree with the fact that any damages actually existed after we sent them their cheque and list of deductions plus cost invoices. They even went to the trouble of having an advocat send us a blood and thunder letter by registered mail. After we sent a copy of the etat des lieux sortie the matter died.

 

Just great fun this renting.

 

Next week we have been invited to join in our first manifestation on the 10.10.08 in Bordeaux to protest the 1.1% and other related matters, soon we will be speaking french. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

ams

[sunny]

Hi Ben,

Really sorry to hear this - you must be so upset!  We had a similar situation in the UK and lost our deposit, because the landlord came up with fake reasons (i.e. a crack on the wall near the ceiling - well, yes, it was a new building and it was settling, so yes there was a crack - but we were renters, not the builders, so don't see how it could be our fault...)

The best you can do is to write to everyone with a registered letter.  Your bank manager is obviously incompetent and just doing a CYA.  Can you send him a registered letter, clearly stating that * despite your conversation, he did not cancel the direct debit * he deducted money for damage without consulting you * and despite frequent reminders, he has not returned your deposit to you.

I would then follow-up with a copy of the letter to the bank's omsbudsman.  I think each bank has one.  .  Try the mayor and see if they have a person who can help you find a consumer advocacy group

Best of luck - it is hard and stressful, but hopefully you can get this sorted out soon.