a particular use of "bien"

[DerekJ]

I was doing some revision with my Michel Thomas Language Builder course yesterday and found something I hadn't properly absorbed on previous listenings. It is over a particular use of "bien".

The particular example relates to this.....

These are in the context of perhaps a question like - Do you want to come to the cinema?

I would like to - je voudrais bien

I want to - je veux bien

Now to my question.  If I want to say something like  .... I think so

Would I say - je pense bien

In other words is bien used to make a similar ending. In this case "so" instead of "to" ?

I hope that makes sense. Any guidance will be very much welcomed.

[Suze01]

I thought that the "bien" in je voudrais bien meant "really" as in I would really like that.  It emphasises your desire for something.

[Albert the InfoGipsy]

In your examples 'bien' isn't translating 'to', but means 'a lot' or 'very much'. Maybe not quite as strong as the English equivalents, but sort of: 'Oh yes! I'd like to'.

My resident French teacher tells me that 'I think so' would translate as 'je pense que oui'  (literally 'I think yes').

Edit: Lisleoise's 'really' is a good choice of translation.

 

 

[Cat]

I use it as literally meaning meaning well, although in modern English it would be taken to mean really or quite.  As Lisleoise says, used for emphasis.  Even in the UK you can hear kids saying things like "it was well cool", "he was well chuffed".   

Have a look here for other uses... http://www.wordreference.com/fren/bien

[DerekJ]

Thanks a lot for all the quick responses.... all very useful guidance.

The "bien" as a "to" translation was a direct quote from the MT course. Previously I'd have only thought of it as "well" translation in the context I gave. Hence I took particular note of him using it as "to". I guess you could use it in the same phrase to convey a similar meaning, albeit a little stronger than just "to".

Albert... thanks for the "je pense" translation/suggestion. I certainly never knew that one.

Cat... thanks for that link. It's very useful.  I must admit that "bien" is one of those words that is used in so many ways that beyond the basic use I get a bit confused.

The other one that seems to be used all over the place and not always where I would expect to find it is "donc".

Thanks again.

[Callie]

[quote user="DerekJ"]The other one that seems to be used all over the place and not always where I would expect to find it is "donc".Thanks again.[/quote]

"Donc" is therefore, so or then.  Almost like "as a result of...".  You can use it as a conjunction, or at the beginning of a sentence if you are replying to someone.

[Cat]

Donc is also a useful way to join two phrases together if you need to stop for a breather/pause for thought in between the two.

Example...

Il était vraiment fâché  (pause) donc (pause) j'ai parti en vitesse.

 

 

[DerekJ]

Callie, Cat.  Thanks for the guidance on "Donc". Again, it's one of those words where I understood the dictionary translation but found it seemed to pop up in places I wouldn't expect to use it in english.

Your feedback helps with this... thanks.

[Albert the InfoGipsy]

Going back to the 'to' issue. In English it is really just a stub that really means 'to do that'. The 'bien' in the French version has absolutely no connection with it.

You could actually translate 'Yes, I want to' as "Oui, je veux le faire'.

I don't know the Thomas course, but my tame French teacher says that it is good for learning set phrases but poor at giving a structure to build understanding on.

[Callie]

Another one of those "space fillers" is "alors...." and of course there is "...ben.....".  And I just love "allez....venez...".  

[DerekJ]

[quote user="Albert the InfoGipsy"]

Going back to the 'to' issue. In English it is really just a stub that really means 'to do that'. The 'bien' in the French version has absolutely no connection with it.

You could actually translate 'Yes, I want to' as "Oui, je veux le faire'.

I don't know the Thomas course, but my tame French teacher says that it is good for learning set phrases but poor at giving a structure to build understanding on.

[/quote]

Thanks Albert, but now I'm a bit confused as in your previous post you said...

[quote user="Albert the InfoGipsy"]

 Maybe not quite as

strong as the English equivalents, but sort of: 'Oh yes! I'd like to'.

[/quote]

Which is sort of the context of my original question.  Sorry to be thick but I'm getting a bit confused.  What I'd like to be able to say is just " I would like to" without adding extras like "to do it" or "to go there". That's on the basis the French say something similar.  I thought I'd found it with the MT "bien" bit but perhaps not.

As to MT and set phrases versus structure? Well, that's not my opinion for what it's worth. I feel he teaches the basic structures rather well. What he doesn't cover is a lot of vocabulary which is pretty limited.

However, the Language Builder course I referred to you is more vocabulary/set phrases biased but not the Foundation and Advanced course.

[DerekJ]

[quote user="Callie"]Another one of those "space fillers" is "alors...." and of course there is "...ben.....".  And I just love "allez....venez...".  

[/quote]

Callie...  I don't know "ben".. in what context is this used?

It's these things that make all the difference in understanding what's being said and being able to communicate in a more colloquial way.

I agree about "alors" this seems to get thrown in everywhere.

[Callie]

Derek - "ben" is "well" or "er"  - for example "would you like something to drink?"  "ah, ben, oui".  If you ever get the chance to read the Astérix books in French, there all sorts of useful little things like "euh".

You may have noticed how many people add "quoi" at the end of a sentence????  That's a bit like saying "y'know".  [:)]

[Richard T]

[quote user="Albert the InfoGipsy"]I don't know the Thomas course, but my tame French teacher says that it is good for learning set phrases but poor at giving a structure to build understanding on.[/quote]'Sfunny - my take on MT is the opposite. It's good for learning structure (even if it's a bit formal in places) and weak on set phrases and general niceties.

Richard T

[Richard T]

And don't forget "bof" meaning "dunno", "whatever".

Richard T

[mint]

Got to get in on "bien" because I thought I had cracked this one.

I disagree that bien emphasises things when used as in je veux bien.  Je veux bien translates as by all means.

I shall quote from my Linguapone Course here if I may:

Strangely enough bien added to je veux, as distinct from je voudrais, does not reinforce.  Je veux bien is much less emphatic.  The equivalent English phrase would be by all means.

This is as distinct from, for example, Je voudrais bien pouvoir vous accompagner which translates as I would really like (to be able) to come with you.

I normally use je veux bien when I'm not too keen, don't want to give offence and hope the other person would not insist!

[Albert the InfoGipsy]

My french sister in law is notorious for replying "je veux bien" when asked "qui veux du vin?"

[Albert the InfoGipsy]

[quote user="DerekJ"][quote user="Albert the InfoGipsy"]

Going back to the 'to' issue. In English it is really just a stub that really means 'to do that'. The 'bien' in the French version has absolutely no connection with it.

You could actually translate 'Yes, I want to' as "Oui, je veux le faire'.

<...>

[/quote]

Thanks Albert, but now I'm a bit confused as in your previous post you said...

[quote user="Albert the InfoGipsy"]

 Maybe not quite as strong as the English equivalents, but sort of: 'Oh yes! I'd like to'.

[/quote]

Which is sort of the context of my original question.  Sorry to be thick but I'm getting a bit confused.  What I'd like to be able to say is just " I would like to" without adding extras like "to do it" or "to go there". That's on the basis the French say something similar.  I thought I'd found it with the MT "bien" bit but perhaps not.

[/quote]

I'm not saying that you must translate the 'do it' bit. The word I used was "could".

I am trying to highlight that 'bien' has absolutely nothing to do with the English word 'to'. In formal English grammar 'to' is the infinitive indicator, when coupled with the root form of a verb. It can be used on its own when the listener knows what the verb being referenced is, as in a question and answer situation: "Would you like to kiss her?" -- "Yes, I would like to."

What is happening here is that Michel Thomas's French version adds (very slight) emphasis that is not present in the English version. "Je voudrais bien" does not mean exactly the same as "I would like to". That's why you are trying to find something to link the "bien" to, although in fact there is nothing.

 

[DerekJ]

That's a good explanation Albert. Thanks for that and for taking the time to help.  The answers here have been very useful and put a few things in context

[M]

"donc...(pause)... je suis parti en vitesse!. Partir is conjugated with être.

M

[cassis]

Like every other verb associated with motion.  I'm sure I've got a sense of dayjah vooh here.  [:)]

[5-element]

"J'ai bien mangé et j'ai bien bu, merci petit Jésus". Wot they used to expect little ones to say in kafflik schools.

But that's the more obvious use of "bien", not the particular use of "je voudrais bien", so, probably not so relevant here.[geek]

[Cat]

[quote user="M"]

"donc...(pause)... je suis parti en vitesse!. Partir is conjugated with être.

[/quote]

Drat!  Les experts sont arrrivés [:$]

[Polremy]

or the adult version:

"J'ai trop mange

j'ai trop bu.

J'ai le ventre

Trop tendu."

(or something like that. may have misheard it)

[5-element]

[:D] You are right, I'd forgotten; I think it goes:

"J'ai bien mangé

et j'ai bien bu

j'ai la peau du ventre bien tendue"

which is perfect to illustrate different ways of using "bien"!