French citizenship

[Tony F Dordogne]

Looked through the previous threads but unsure where the information is that I'm looking for now.

Does anybody have a link to a site/posting or a list of what is necessary paperwork etc to make application for French citizenship.  OK about the 5 years rule but is it purely a paper exercise or is there, as I think somebody posted ages back, some form of exam involved?  If there is an exam, is it a sort of basic national exam or can the various local offices set their own?

[Clair]

I am not aware of any exam being necessary.

Info HERE, HERE and HERE.

Application details HERE.

[Maricopa]

[quote user="Tony F Dordogne"]

some form of exam involved?  If there is an exam, is it a sort of basic national exam or can the various local offices set their own?

[/quote]

I think Tony you may be refering to this bit of text from the sites mentioned, if you have'nt found it already.[:)]

L'assimilation est vérifiée lors d'un entretien individuel avec un agent de la préfecture ou du consulat.  

[Tony F Dordogne]

Thanks for the replies, especially Clair.

I can't see a list of necessary documents - presumably my/our life histories - and what's the difference between decree and declaration, anybody with experience of either?

[Clair]

[quote user="Tony F Dordogne"]I can't see a list of necessary documents - presumably my/our life histories - and what's the difference between decree and declaration, anybody with experience of either?[/quote]

THIS is the pdf file for the demande. Your mairie should be able to give you a hard copy.

This page has more info and explains the difference between the décret and the déclaration.

[woolybanana]

Why on earth would one want to change citizenship? You'll have to be circumcised if you do?

[Madeira Jon]

The OP may well wish to change from UK Citizenship to anything else to avoid the new "spy passports" which are coming on line. These are to run parallel with the Bionic ID cards which will contain all manner of personal information.

http://www.no2id.net/

However regrettably France is also going down the same road, so changing to a French citizenship + passport will do nothing. Maybe, knowing French fonctionaires, it will be quicker to do your 3 years in the Legion Etrange to gain French citizenship.

[Tony F Dordogne]

Hi Clair

Thanks very much for the second response, now I know what I need to do, can start planning.

[Tom]

It can be a nightmare trying to obtain citizenship if the local prefecture isn't sympathetic.

There's one account here:

blog

[5-element]

Tom, how interesting. My husband also had "an experience" with the Béziers Bureau des Etrangers. As he is married to a Frenchwoman, he thought that, it should be easier to acquire French citizenship. Someone (cannot remember who), told him that he only needed to apply to Tribunal de Grande Instance and that the procedure would also be quicker. So then he rang up the Béziers préfecture to ask them what the procedure was, and which documents he would have to provide.

He had the most extraordinary telephone conversation with the person at Bureau des Etrangers, who in the end, said that such information could not possibly be divulged over the phone, and that my husband had to call in person. When my husband mentioned the website where such information is available, that person said to him that the website could not be trusted and that he still would have to call in person just for the initial general enquiry.

My husband has not yet taken it further, since the acquisition of French citizenship is not his top priority in life at the moment. But his experience, so far, seems to correlate with the one in the blog.

[Tom]

I was impressed that she needed to get, among other things, birth certificates and marriage certificates for herself , her husband and her parents. Along with apostilles for authentication translated into French. And send her fingerprints to  the FBI for verification.

It costs  a lot of money for all these documents.  

[Clair]

[quote user="Tom"]... she needed to get, among other things, birth certificates and marriage certificates for herself , her husband and her parents. Along with apostilles for authentication translated into French. And send her fingerprints to the FBI for verification.

It costs a lot of money for all these documents. [/quote]

These requirements are clearly indicated in the application notice (sample HERE). For example:

[quote]Les actes de l'état civil que vous devez fournir en original doivent être, le cas échéant, légalisés ou apostillés(1).

Lorsque l'acte est dressé en langue étrangère, vous devez joindre une traduction établie par un expert assermenté en France(2) ou dans votre pays d'origine.

(1) s'adresser au consulat du pays d'origine.

(2) traducteur

figurant sur la liste des experts judiciaires établie par les cours

d'appel et la cour de cassation, disponible au tribunal du domicile.

[...]

• Dans tous les cas :

• la copie intégrale de votre acte de naissance avec indication du nom des père et mère, délivrée par l'officier d'état civil du lieu où l'acte de naissance est conservé,
• les documents relatifs aux dates, lieux de naissance et, le cas échéant, de mariage de vos père et mère. Ils permettront au service central d'état civil d'établir des actes de l'état civil français complets. A défaut, ces actes ne pourront être complétés que sur instruction du Parquet de Nantes,
• le cas échéant, tout document justifiant d'une modification de votre nom,
• tout document justifiant de votre nationalité au regard de la loi de votre pays d'origine (par exemple, copie du passeport).
• Si vous êtes marié(e), séparé(e), divorcé(e), veuf ou veuve :

Vous devez fournir, selon le cas :

1) la copie intégrale de l'acte de mariage [...]

• le cas échéant, tout document justifiant de l'identité du conjoint, si celle-ci est incomplète dans l'acte de mariage.

Si vous séjournez en France depuis moins de 10 ans, vous devez fournir un extrait original de casier judiciaire étranger établi dans les pays où vous avez résidé durant ces années et sa traduction par un traducteur assermenté.

[...][/quote]

[5-element]

The rules are..... well, the rules, and they just have to be complied with. I have no dispute with that at all, even if they seem a bit odd at times.

But as far as Bureau des Etrangers in Béziers goes, it is true that there seems to be a bit of a problem there. I had overheard the conversation that my husband had with them, in his best French, when he was enquiring and told not to trust the requirements on the website (???), but to come in person to be given that list of rules verbally - and this, only between 9 and 12 on the days a certain person was going to be there.

There is another instance I know of, a British friend of African descent, being told at the same Bureau des Etrangers that she needed a visa to stay in France - this was said to her by a woman who was holding in her hands,  my friend's British passport.....

I would imagine that experiences vary from préfecture to préfecture, and hope that the Béziers one is just one of its kind. I will now make sure I accompany my husband if he does go there. You never know! But I won't be smug about it either, imagining only too easily how  "other" immigrants are treated there!

 

[giantpanda]

Hi!

They do test you: From Service public.

Assimilation à la communauté française

Le demandeur doit justifier de son assimilation à

la communauté française, notamment par une connaissance suffisante,

selon sa condition, de la langue française et des droits et devoirs

conférés par la nationalité française.  

La condition de connaissance de la langue

française ne s'applique pas aux réfugiés statutaires et apatrides en

séjour habituel et régulier depuis au moins 15 ans en France et âgés de

plus de 70 ans.  

L'assimilation est vérifiée lors d'un entretien individuel avec un agent de la préfecture ou du consulat. 

Yours,

giantpanda

[Clair]

It is an interview, not an exam.

[woolybanana]

If you are black or brown it is an interrogation by the sound of it.

[5-element]

If you are black or brown, there can be an automatic presumption that you should NOT be here in the first place.

Surprise surprise.

[chessfou]

[quote]Si vous séjournez en France depuis moins de 10 ans, vous devez

fournir un extrait original de casier judiciaire étranger établi dans

les pays où vous avez résidé durant ces années[/quote]

Ah, that's rather Catch22-ish, apparently ruling out any applicants who lived in the UK during that time - if I understand correctly it is not possible, as an individual, to get such a thing in/from the UK.

[Clair]

I thought UK citizens could get, on request, a police certificate, i.e. a statement saying either that there is currently no information held about the person making the request on the

police computer systems or providing a list of convictions, if any. [8-)]

[Loulou]

[quote user="Tom"]It can be a nightmare trying to obtain citizenship if the local prefecture isn't sympathetic.

There's one account here:

blog

[/quote]

That was me! 

I was given a complete list of what I needed before submitting the application and paperwork, then they came back and said I needed all the extra paperwork. 

Still slogging through.  Not giving up yet. 

I'm sure that one day I'll get it right...

  [:)]

[Lollie]

My son 19 went to the Tribunal to ask how to go about French citizenship recently , he was told it would be possible but as Britain did not allow dual nationality he would have to give up his British citizenship.   Another couple we know here where he is english and she is french,  was told the same story at the same office.   Anyone come across this?

 

Lollie (44)

 

 

[Scooby]

It is quite possible for a British citizen to have dual nationality - friends of our have British / Canadian dual nationality.  When they became Canadian nationals they weren't required to give up their British mationality.

[Clair]

[quote user="Lollie"]My son 19 went to the Tribunal to ask how to go about French citizenship recently , he was told it would be possible but as Britain did not allow dual nationality he would have to give up his British citizenship. Another couple we know here where he is english and she is french,  was told the same story at the same office. Anyone come across this?[/quote]

A clear case of misinformation.

I wouldn't expect a British county council employee to know about French legislation, not would I rely exclusively on their knowledge if they did know something...

The info is here: http://www.bia.homeoffice.gov.uk/britishcitizenship/dualnationality/

[Madeira Jon]

"but as Britain did not allow dual nationality"

Someone has given incorrect statements.  I have dual nationality.  British and Portuguese. My mother was Madeirense, my father British. I was born in Madeira.

[Will]

Citizenship and nationality are complicated subjects and there is no clear-cut answer. The fact that one should renounce British citizenship if one takes a foreign nationality is much-quoted but is basically incorrect. Citizenship acquired through birth is not necessarily regarded in all countries as being the same as citizenship through naturalisation.

Although British nationals can take citizenship of other countries without losing their British nationality, some countries do not permit dual nationality. There is no compulsion for any country to allow Britsh subjects to retain their nationality if that country rules otherwise - and that applies within Europe too. So although one can have dual British-French nationality, if a British subject takes Danish nationality, for example, he/she has to give up British nationality. There are further complications in that citizens of, for example, the Isle of Man, Jersey and Guernsey are regarded as British citizens while on British soil, but do not enjoy the rights asociated with British nationality in the rest of Europe. Switzerland, Finland and the former Yugoslav republics all have concepts of 'regional' as well as 'national' citizenship, while the Republic of Ireland/Northern Ireland is yet another special case.

The USA, India, many Middle Eastern states and most Far Eastern nations all have their own citizenship rules.