Daft Doctor Posted November 11, 2013 Share Posted November 11, 2013 In an email discussion with a neighbour about us getting some work done on our communal road, she used this phrase: 'Je sais que vous n'y êtes pour rien'. I can easily directly translate the words, but I assume it is more of a colloquialism/saying. Could anyone please tell me what it means? Thanks in advance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idun Posted November 11, 2013 Share Posted November 11, 2013 In very simple terms it means that she understands that it (what ever it is) is not your fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NormanH Posted November 11, 2013 Share Posted November 11, 2013 Yes..'it has nothing to do with you' in the sense as idun says' it is not your fault' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daft Doctor Posted November 11, 2013 Author Share Posted November 11, 2013 Thanks to you both. That is entirely in context. We were emailing about some work to the common driveway that Mrs DD & I are responsible for. My neighbour knows we have been let down by our terrassier on several occasions, and she was obviously telling us that she knows it's not our fault that the work hasn't been done. That's pleasing to know! [:D] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idun Posted November 11, 2013 Share Posted November 11, 2013 Said this way, it feels conciliatory, 'not your fault' or 'I understand that this is beyond your control'. 'Nothing to do with you' I think that I would use something like ca ne vous regarde/concerne pas, if it was nothing to do with someone, ie none of your concern/business????I do get things wrong, and that is how it seems to me[Www] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chancer Posted November 11, 2013 Share Posted November 11, 2013 Whenever I have heard "je ne suis pas pour rien!" uttered I have always taken it to mean, I am not useless!, I am not worthless!, do not ignore me!, that kind of thing.Have I misunderstood it or confusing perhaps another term? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NormanH Posted November 11, 2013 Share Posted November 11, 2013 'Nothing to do with you' I think that I would use something like ca ne vous regarde/concerne pas, if it was nothing to do with someone, ie none of your concern/business????I totally agree used in the way you explain, but I would also use the English phrase in a conciliatory tone, "I realise that the problem has nothing to do with you", not, "it's nothing to do with you" as in the version you giveIt's one of those situations where tone of voice and facial expression can't be adequately conveyed on paper.idun's "not your fault" is absolutely right, but I was just looking for a phrase where the word for word match is a bit closer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idun Posted November 11, 2013 Share Posted November 11, 2013 Please take into account that I have said some incredibly awful faux pas in the past. And my french is 'street' french, I don't understand, never mind 'do' grammatical things.Je ne suis pas pour rien, said, where I lived 'J'suis pour rien' if you could hear the other words, well good luck to you, if I was annunciating, I'd probably say je n'y suis pour rien, whether it is right or not?. Means not my fault, nothing to do with me............ . Often accompanied by both hands going up in the air as a quick gesture, of giving up.So who is going to tell me I have got this wrong for the last few decades..........IF you do, then it will slightly surprise me, and will be hysterical actually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idun Posted November 11, 2013 Share Posted November 11, 2013 Chancer, people tend to use 'nulle' or 'paumé' when they are saying that they are useless, or useless at something specific. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chancer Posted November 11, 2013 Share Posted November 11, 2013 Its probably me thats got it wrong to date, I learn like you did Idun by experience, you hear something said in a certain situation and try to guess what it means by the context, how it was said etc, hear it a few more times and you can be more certain and start using it yourself without ever really knowing the meaning.Or you can get it completely wrong like I may have, peu importe as I dont have the confidence yet to use it myself.When I have heard it I thought it was being used as a rebuttal, saying "I am not useless" "dont treat me as if I wasnt here or arent worthy of consideration", nulle is used to self deprecate and often by others to describe me [:D]An example of copying speech, I dropped in unanounced at friends, I had run to the gym and got the times wrong so needed to kill 30 minutes. When I saw it was high time to go I said "je me casse", they looked at each other and said "you have learned that around here havnt you!" which told me it was not a good way of speaking.I asked if it was impolite, vulgar etc and they said no, you can say it if you want and then with a wicked smile and a dismissive wave of the hand said "alors, casse-toi!" and the penny dropped [:$]A very good way to teach the lesson and one I wont forget.What things have you unwittingly absorbed into your vocabulary only to be told that by using said phrase it devalues you somewhat?Par contre is one that I have been picked up on, was told its more polite to use en revanche. I wish more people would tell me when I sound like an abruti. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idun Posted November 11, 2013 Share Posted November 11, 2013 There is only one occassion when I have felt a little sorry that my french wasn't better or more polite, and that was when my son whispered to me that I should not have ' je m'en fiche' to a waitress. He said that 'ca m'est egale' was polite. A lesson I have not forgotten.I was quite shy and timid in my youth, but that move to France meant that I had to just jump in and speak,, so I did. My gaffe's have been horrible and joyous over the years. How could I have done otherwise. If I didn't speak, then who was going to speak to me and most found my faults very entertaining and still do. Devalues me, no, no, never. The meer thought of anyone looking down on me because of my faulty french is comical. I have done my best and I ask questions, but I don't need 'telling', it interupts conversations. Maybe if I was at a lesson, or language group it would be different, but it is a long long long time since I have been to either. Maybe I am an abruti, but that is OK, I can live with that.[:D][:D][:D] We all find our own ways of dealing with learning another language and for those of us without talent for languages or a good ear, then we can only do the best we can and jump in and keep talking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idun Posted November 11, 2013 Share Posted November 11, 2013 double post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EuroTrash Posted November 11, 2013 Share Posted November 11, 2013 Chancer, your phrase had an extra negative in it, which makes all the difference.The OP said: Vous ,n'y etes pour rien - literally, you are there for nothing - you are not involved in it.You said: Je ne suis PAS pour rien - I am NOT for nothing (though I can't say I've ever heard this)The effect of the double negative (pas + rien) is to turn it back into a positive - I'm not no use = I am of use. But the OP didn't have the double negative.Lesson over :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idun Posted November 11, 2013 Share Posted November 11, 2013 Lesson? EuroTrash, do people really annunciate every last syllable where you live? I would rarely hear the negative, never mind a double negative in a conversation. People just don't talk like that, at least with me they don't. As I said I don' t have 'the ear' but still, I know when I hear j'sais pas, and i know they mean je ne sais pas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EuroTrash Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 Yes the 'ne' gets swallowed or missed out but it's not the 'ne' that makes the difference, it's the 'pas'. In this case pas+rien=double negative. You can usually hear whether or not there's a 'pas' in there, or if you can't you would misunderstand completely.Miss all the ne's out if you like - J'y suis pour rien would still mean the opposite of J'y suis pas pour rien. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chancer Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 Thanks Eurotrash, I had thought that might be the difference.I guess I have never heard someone saying "je suis pour rien" or "vous êtes pour rien" only it being used to protest an inference of being worthless (my interpretation once again) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pitway Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 [quote user="idun"]Lesson? EuroTrash, do people really annunciate every last syllable where you live? I would rarely hear the negative, never mind a double negative in a conversation. People just don't talk like that, at least with me they don't. As I said I don' t have 'the ear' but still, I know when I hear j'sais pas, and i know they mean je ne sais pas.[/quote]In this neck of the woods many of them ommit the 'sais' so you end up with je pas! then they wonder why I can't follow what they are saying!! :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pickles Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 Chancer wrote: "je me casse"I seem to recall that this was one of Brice de Nice's catchphrases ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idun Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 I cannot remember ever hearing j'y suis pas pour rien on it's own. I can imagine 'je suis pas la pour rien' for example, but not 'sec' like that. Yes pitway, I have heard that too. [:D] It's OK, though, people do slice up their everyday language. I am now wondering if casse-toi is harsher than allez vous-en. I have said both, I can think of several things to say, that I know are far worse and much ruder, incidentally, but if the circumstances arrive, would say either or the aforementioned.So which is the worst expression? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chancer Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 The second I guess but said as va - t'en, its funny how the tu form is used when insulting, if Mr Sarkozy had said cassez-vous it would not have sounded right, any more than ..... votre gueule would in the place of ta gueule.Around here they say "shuis pas" and "shais pas" not a "je ne" to be heard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pitway Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 [quote user="idun"]I cannot remember ever hearing j'y suis pas pour rien on it's own. I can imagine 'je suis pas la pour rien' for example, but not 'sec' like that. Yes pitway, I have heard that too. [:D] It's OK, though, people do slice up their everyday language. I am now wondering if casse-toi is harsher than allez vous-en. I have said both, I can think of several things to say, that I know are far worse and much ruder, incidentally, but if the circumstances arrive, would say either or the aforementioned.So which is the worst expression? [/quote]Idun you are passing into the realms of (I don't no what!) caisse-toi said to a friend in a frendly mannar I doubt it would be a problem, said to a stranger with a bit of venom is a real insult and could equally be as offensive as some of the other things you are thinkng of! re "I am now wondering if casse-toi is harsher than allez vous-en." enormously different as I am sure you are aware! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idun Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 [:D][:D][:D] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NormanH Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 [quote user="Chancer"]The second I guess but said as va - t'en, its funny how the tu form is used when insulting, if Mr Sarkozy had said cassez-vous it would not have sounded right, any more than ..... votre gueule would in the place of ta gueule.Around here they say "shuis pas" and "shais pas" not a "je ne" to be heard.[/quote]One of the demands of the 'jeunes' in the 'cités' is that the Police use the 'vous' form when they address them to show respect and the 'tu' form is definitely to be avoided when in doubt.There is a famous story about President Mittarand who replied to an interviewer who asked him 'on se tutoie?'by 'Si vous voulez'...what a rebuke!It can get under your guard though. I once expressed surprise when I heard a friend of mine's daughter say 'vous' to her parents, and asked her if that wasn't being a bit bit over formal. But there are two of them she said Silly me[:'(] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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