Air Rifle

Christine Animal · August 30, 2005

Good Night

Debra · August 30, 2005

[quote]"The wellbeing of my fish comes first and foremost." Now isn't that touching, I almost had a tear in my eye. You forgot to mention how much you make out of the "wellbeing of your fish". It's funny ...[/quote]

er - nothing yet actually, since if you read the thread you will see we're only just buying the lakes. Maybe nothing in future either - they may be private leisure lakes (we have the option to make something more of them but may not take it up if we can afford not to). However, the costs of stocking the lakes will be there regardless of whether we end up 'making' anything out of the lakes. The injuries to the fish by these birds, which apparently attack fish far too large for them to actually eat, leaving large, deep cuts down either side of their back, would happen regardless of any profits we might make if we decided to make the lakes a commercial venture. Are you only concerned about birds and not other animals? You do not mention the Coypu, which were the other reason for asking about air rifles in this thread. There are some pretty gory stories about these attacking dogs, which you apparently care a great deal about. Would you consider it OK to shoot these animals or leave them to attack the kids, dogs, destroy the lake habitat and kill the fish at the same time?

Debra · August 30, 2005

[quote]Good Night[/quote]

Good night, Christine. Perhaps its a good time for you to retire. You may wake up with a more rational argument than resorting to wishing large predators on a family with small children. Let us know where you live and when we do the vidange on the lakes we'll be sure to re-route all coypu, alligators and crocodiles found to your place, where I'm sure you'll find a way for them to live happily with you and your dogs.

maple · August 30, 2005

hi ,

this looks like a rather heavy thread for my first post ,

human and dog attacking coypu .......ive heard it all now !! lol when was the last time you heard of any non meat eating creature going on the rampage ? i spend a lot of time in france and hope to live there soon , ive seen loads of coypu and i can tell you given the chance they will run a mile at the first sign of humans or the dogs ! so you can forget about them attacking you , as for dogs well ive no doubt that a coypu would try to stand its ground if cornered by a dog , what animal wouldnt with no other choice ?

haveing said all that , coypu are a pest they do a lot of damage and do need to be controlled i beleave the french blow them up in the far south .

born to fish , did you say you was a fishery manager ? do they teach you to kill herons now ? do they teach you to upset the natural balance ? what about the birds of prey that hunt fish ? what about crested grebes they hunt fry ? what about coots they eat fish spawn ?

all of these freshwater birds are part of the natural balance of any lake , take them away and you get problems .

as for cormorants well they are a big pest and are not part of the natural balace !!!!!!!

other than that good luck with your move

August 30, 2005

Amazing two people with different names agreeing with each other I think I will get the missus to agree with this post that I am doing on two people with different names agreeing with each WOW

August 30, 2005

[quote]hi , this looks like a rather heavy thread for my first post , human and dog attacking coypu .......ive heard it all now !! lol when was the last time you heard of any non meat eating creature go...[/quote]

Well let me start by saying welcome.

Now that is out of the way do a search on this forum and most other french forum sites and you'll read about the exploits of some of "lovely creatures" that have attacked dogs (and left the dogs requiring stitches), chase people (one lady said she used to see it taking over her patio before she went out and after she came in) and burrow into the ground draining the lake and killing fish in the process. As I said I am a family man and within the responsibilities of that are looking after my kids and if Coypu are quite willing to attack dogs (maybe because the dogs are inquisitive) then they are just as likely to attack my 3 small kids who are probably more inquisitive than any dog and the have to go.

I'll also add that Coypu are classed as Vermin and can be shot or trapped at will.

As for cormorants they may be a nuisance but they are a protected one so they are safe (unless permission follows lol)

Christine Animal · August 30, 2005

If you feel so responsible for your children. Why do you take them into such dangerous climes?

Just wondering...

August 30, 2005

[quote]We are shortly to complete on our lakes in the Dordogne and I would like to have an air rifle powerful enough to take out a heron or a cormorant (not that I've seen any yet). I was wondering if they ...[/quote]

Thanks for all the side issues the original thread is above and is about the rules governing owning air rifles not the law or the moral issues, the reason that H, C & C were mentioned was to relate the kind of power needed, NOT something that I would be doing all of the time or any of it.

August 30, 2005

[quote]If you feel so responsible for your children. Why do you take them into such dangerous climes? Just wondering...[/quote]

Almost missed this post as I was reitterating the original thread but as for taking the kids to dangerous areas what hogwash is that?

Kids can get run over by cars and buses but that doesn't make us keep them in the house for fear of it, it doesn't stop us teaching them the highway code so they know how to cross the road. Think of how many dangerous hazards we face in everyday life but that doesn't force us to become hermits or recluses does it?

Along with having kids comes the responsibility to teach them about the rules of society and the outlook to enjoy life rather than fear it, but, that being said if you can remove anything that will or may cause injury then you look for the answer and do it.

That is what the thread was about, but you look after your dogs and I'll look after my kids.

zeb · August 30, 2005

I think your children are in far more danger of drowning in your lake than being mauled by a coypu!!

Most of us have moved to rural France because we enjoy the countryside, the wildlife and the peace (as well as most things French). Do you really think that you are going to become a respected member of your community by taking pot shots (sorry, head shots) at herons and anything else that you consider a threat to your potential income? Maybe it would be best to practise your heron control in North Yorks rather than come here and act like yet another crazy Brit!

Maybe, if you insist on fishing in lakes, which I'm led to believe is a sport, you could just pit your wits against the rest of the competition rather than shoot it? That's sporting isn't it?

PS Noticed that there is another zeb around so I'm sorry if this is confusing but no, we are not related!

August 30, 2005

[quote]I think your children are in far more danger of drowning in your lake than being mauled by a coypu!!Most of us have moved to rural France because we enjoy the countryside, the wildlife and the peace (...[/quote]

Here we go again.....

As I said we teach our kids to overcome obstacles and yes believe it or not swimming is one of them not to mention that they have spent considerable time round lakes both with fishing and camping and have never as yet come back with even a damp wellie between the three of them.

As for moving to rural France yes we too enjoy the wildlife and the peace and quiet, however we will be responsible for the fish in our lakes and yes, I think that we will become respected members of our community as not only will we be taking care of our lakes and the terrain we own but mixing freely and embracing the French way of life.

As for the hunting.... There are so many hunts around rural France I would have thought that someone who detests it would move to a city or even back to the UK where it seems to have been banned.

As for the competition isn't this back to the question of letting the foxes eat your pet chickens?

August 30, 2005

[quote]hi , this looks like a rather heavy thread for my first post , human and dog attacking coypu .......ive heard it all now !! lol when was the last time you heard of any non meat eating creature go...[/quote]

haveing said all that , coypu are a pest they do a lot of damage and do need to be controlled i beleave the french blow them up in the far south .

born to fish , did you say you was a fishery manager ? do they teach you to kill herons now ? do they teach you to upset the natural balance ? what about the birds of prey that hunt fish ? what about crested grebes they hunt fry ? what about coots they eat fish spawn ?

all of these freshwater birds are part of the natural balance of any lake , take them away and you get problems .

as for cormorants well they are a big pest and are not part of the natural balace !!!!!!!

Right let me get this straight it is ok according to you to blow up Coypu, shoot Cormorants "but protect Herons" explain the difference a rule for one should be a rule for another. Just so you know Herons are like Cormorants in that they attack fish which are far too large for them to carry away and that results in badly damaged fish with open wounds that can get infected kill the fish cause polution in the lake and lead to all the fish dying. Bearing all this in mind we are still not sure that the lakes are going to be a comercial venue so there will be no income from it but there will be considerable outgoings such as buying the fish transporting the fish feeding the fish maintaining the water quality not to mention that nearly 50% of the time spent at the lake will be to manage the terrain

As for natural balance the lakes will be managed by me not by nature so perch and carp will eat the spawn and the small fry. If that starts to fail then you put in bigger predators to remove the problem like Zander or Pike or even Catfish. I'd be more than happy with a lake stocked full of females as they stop spawning and spend all their energy packing on weight and that removes the spawn and the fry.

August 30, 2005

Well reading the "other" forum it seems obvious that this guy is going to shoot the birds even if it is not legal nasty nasty nasty

Debra · August 30, 2005

[quote]Well reading the "other" forum it seems obvious that this guy is going to shoot the birds even if it is not legal nasty nasty nasty[/quote]

That is a downright lie! Here is the link to the other forum to prove it:

http://www.totalfrance.com/france/forum/viewtopic.php?p=62915#62915

The answer seems to be to get free help from the mairie to control coypu (though still a bit worried about the trapping aspect as I understand from other threads that they use poisoned bait); contact the Guarde De Chasse regarding the cormorants (only he allowed to shoot them as the amounts shot per year are controlled) and there are lots of methods to control herons - spraying water at them seeming the favourite.

Are 'pinkfluff' and 'newboy' the same person since this last drivel has been posted on both forums?

At the end of the day, there may not even be herons or cormorants near the lake - or even the dreaded coypu - so all this may be irrelevant. However, the original question was about an air rifle - just in case one is needed for any reason. Having seen the site showing all the species classed as vermin in France, I'm more convinced than ever that one may be needed for our protection, never mind the fish!

August 30, 2005

[quote]Well reading the "other" forum it seems obvious that this guy is going to shoot the birds even if it is not legal nasty nasty nasty[/quote]

I never said that and yet again I have to agree with my wife in that we have said on both forums now that we will not be doing anything illegal and as my wife has posted on both forums stating that we haven't got a problem with any "pests" but if we do get one our 1st port of call will be the marie who we are buying the lakes from. I don't see how any derogatory comments can be aimed at us.... but then it takes all sorts and these forums seem to bring out the worst sorts (not aimed at the helpful and informative posts and pms we received)

Christine Animal · August 30, 2005

I haven't been on the other forum to have a look but I shall do so. Your last post "born to fish" seems to imply that you are backing out from what you said at the beginning. I just hope that the "marie" backs out from selling you these lakes, if it's not already too late.

We are not helpful? You did not, quand même, expect us to be helpful in shooting down herons. After all, the herons and the fish did manage before you arrived.

We have ragondins on the small stretch of water where we sometimes have the pleasure of seeing herons. They even cross the small road with their little ones, and we stop the car to let them pass. Walkers stop and sit at the table and benches to watch them, so far I have never heard that they attacked anything...

August 30, 2005

[quote]I haven't been on the other forum to have a look but I shall do so. Your last post "born to fish" seems to imply that you are backing out from what you said at the beginning. I just hope that the "m...[/quote]

I'm not backing out of anything just reiterating what I started the thread off with about owning/buying air rifles in France.

Too late they are ours.........

No I didn't want praise for shooting down herons etc I asked for advice about air rifles. I also said we don't have any pests on the land and that when/if we do then we will deal with them legally. Just one thing I must say is that herons and fish don't go together you find a flock of herons arrive, desimate the fish and then move on to new fish stocks there is no such thing as compatability between to the two.

About Coypu/Ragondin attacking well there were umpteen posts about this on various forums where they have attacked dogs chased people and we are still looking for the posts but the search facility is playing up at the moment. As soon as we find it you'll be the first to see it.

ps still no reply for my wife about sending them to your place to play with the dogs. Or for that matter whether you would let the foxes eat your chickens.

Debra · August 30, 2005

Here are some prior threads about Ragondin or Coypu (quite difficult to find since apart from the LF search engine seeming to be out of order, people have used many incorrect spellings of the word and some people even mistake them for otters!):

http://forums.livingfrance.com/shwmessage.aspx?forumid=296&messageid=119806#bm142137 (apparently the French love making pate with them)

http://www.totalfrance.com/france/forum/viewtopic.php?t=374&highlight=ragondin

http://www.totalfrance.com/france/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4884&postdays=0&postorder=asc&&start=15 (including the dogs they attacked and the thousands of pounds worth of damaged caused to a carp lake and other interesting stuff - but all sides of the argument are presented, so please do read it all properly, Christine, since you don't seem to read my comments properly or reply to them evenly remotely comprehensively).

http://totalfrance.com/france/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6833 (edited to add another link)

They were bred for their fur originally (same as mink in the UK), but got free into the wild, became a pest and are now classed as vermin. They carry disease, including leptospirosis apparently.

After all, the herons and the fish did manage before you arrived.

We aren't aware that there are any there, but clearly if there have ever been any there in the past then the previous French owner must have dealt with them effectively, since the fish stocks don't appear to have been decimated, yet.

Christine Animal · August 30, 2005

Debra, I've quickly looked at your links and can't see anything about Ragondins attacking dogs or people. As for your husband's remark about the chickens, I am not concerned as I do not have any, but if I did I would try to make sure they are shut in; perhaps you should put your fish in a tank as you do not seem to be prepared to share with nature.

Now I shall leave you to it, I am sure as your husband said on the other thread after threatening Newboy, you will be a great success. People like you usually are.

Debra · August 30, 2005

[quote]Debra, I've quickly looked at your links and can't see anything about Ragondins attacking dogs or people. As for your husband's remark about the chickens, I am not concerned as I do not have any, but...[/quote]

Didn't cut and paste all the links correctly - read the one by Susie on 28 Mar 2005 08:35

Please don't presume to know me because you've participated in this post. You know nothing about us. You are overreacting because of a supposed love of animals but it seems you only love some animals, not all, and as long as predators are not threatening your beloved animals then you object to anyone dealing with predators which affect theirs. You don't have chickens so you don't care about those - what if there were a predator attacking your dogs? You'd keep them locked up, like the chickens, I guess (really working with nature there).

You simply seem to have joined in this thread to attack and not come up with any useful advice about how to deal with the problem except to say you don't perceive it as a problem since you don't own the water you like to see the birds swooping over. Perhaps you should ask the owner of the water near you, where these birds swoop, how he deals with the problem? Then perhaps you could come back with some useful advice, maybe a humane way to deal with the problem, instead of just sarcasm and wishing ill on us.

Second thoughts - don't bother: plenty of other people have replied rationally and helpfully and we now know roughly what to do to stay within the law and deal with the problems with heron, cormorant and coypu - if they actually occur.

August 30, 2005

[quote]Debra, I've quickly looked at your links and can't see anything about Ragondins attacking dogs or people. As for your husband's remark about the chickens, I am not concerned as I do not have any, but...[/quote]

Hang on Christine before you get carried away (and you need to be), was it not you that wished alligators and crocodiles on our 3 small children.

Oh yes it was!!!!

We have looked at most of your posts and in my opinion are almost totally irelevant to the topic in hand, you don't answer questions and nothing has been mentioned about protecting your dogs for that matter either.

We are quite prepared to share them with nature but not prepared to give them away as free samples.

If we buy fish then surely we have a right to protect them and care for them much the same as any pet.

Or maybe I'm wrong NOT!!!!!!!!

August 30, 2005

A couple more threads for you to check out regarding Ragondin / Coypu

http://totalfrance.com/france/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6379

http://totalfrance.com/france/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6630

August 30, 2005

"I am an extremely competent shot and will not shoot the body but only go for head shots to make sure I get the kill."

But of course I have a fishing lake and I dont intend to kill the birds even though anyone can read what have been putting on here. I know it is getting boring this thread and I do try to stay away from it because I know It will get two or three replys from the "bird killers" just one last thought does the mayor who you buying the lake from know what you are going to do to the local bird population

August 30, 2005

Not bad pink fluff (or is it newboy on TF) only 3 hours to come back with that and lo and behold it goes out of context what a surprise. That was in response to leaving a wounded animal or bird in pain not to do with anything else. It was also before we posted that we had found out that Heron's are protected across Europe and an that only certain people can kill a restricted number of Cormorants per year. Whether fishery owners are included within these "certain people" as they are in the UK we still have to find out. Rest assured if they are I'll kill them in the most humane way possible.

No doubt on your 3 hour reply you may have managed to read some of the other posts you will see that the first port of call is the mayor IF we ever become infested but hey go ahead mis-quote me.

August 30, 2005

Just for the hell I dont sit on the computer all day I do other things so as your missus said on the other forum to Newlad aka me (big deal I post on two forums) "Go away, little boy" Her words not mine Now if you dont mind Im off to watch the tele with Mrs Fluff if that is alright with you . So it might be tomorrow before we speak again XXXXXX

Air Rifle

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