How does the "silence vaut accord" law work in practice?

[EM]

Does anyone have any experience with the "silence vaut accord" law and how it applies in practice after a government organisation has not responded in time in cases where you actually need something from them?

For example, I've applied for a social security number by sending the "demande d'ouverture des droits à l'assurance maladie" form to my local CPAM 2.5 months ago and have heard nothing back. Not even an acknowledgement - but luckily I sent it by registered mail. According to https://www.service-public.fr/demarches-silence-vaut-accord/demarches/1609 the "SVA" law applies to this procedure. So, in principle, my request is "deemed approved", but in practice I still have no social security number. If I wanted to use the SVA law here, how would I go about doing that?

(Yes, obviously CPAM might reply soon anyway, and I hope they do, but my question is specifically about the SVA laws and not about registering for social security as such.)

[Chancer]

I learn something every day but this one has taken my breath away, a hithereto unbeknown to me a very sensible law but one that is completely at odds with how the whole of France operates every single day.

 

After 11 years of being completely ignored whether it be by letter, E-mail or face to face I now realise that everyone has been agreeing with me [:P]

[andyh4]

I cannot help with SVA but if your CPAM is anything like ours a reply soon would be close to a miracle. It took them 21 months to issue a carte vitale.

[nomoss]

EM:

In this case the SVA principle could be interpreted to mean that your application is approved but you will receive your documentation in due course.

Maybe you could visit the office and ask for an "Attestation de droits à l'assurance maladie", which is the printed document establishing your rights, on the basis that your application was approved under the loi SVA.

I don't know how it works these days, but we received our Attestations when we applied, although the plastic cards did not arrive until some time later. The advantage of the card is that in most cases the claim is processed automatically with no need to post paperwork to your CPAM.

[quote user="Chancer"]I learn something every day but this one has taken my breath away, a hithereto unbeknown to me a very sensible law but one that is completely at odds with how the whole of France operates every single day.[/quote]

When one applies for planning consent I believe this law is mentioned in the blurb accompanying the forms to submit. At least there is a statement that consent can be assumed if no reply is received within two months.

Whenever there has been a delay in getting consent (or advice of lack of opposition)  I have received a response giving a reason for the delay shortly before the deadline, which gives them another two months.

So they always have paperwork to justify their delays, even if their reasons for delays might seem slightly flimsy.

[Chancer]

Of course, I had forgotten that Nomoss, that is exactly how it worked.

[NormanH]

There are exceptions though.

If you apply for a 'carte de séjour UE -séjour permanent' for example you are told that if you don't hear back in 4 months it means that the request has been refused...

Votre carte vous est remise au guichet de la préfecture ou de la sous-préfecture où vous avez déposé votre demande.

Si la préfecture ou la sous-préfecture ne vous a pas répondu dans

un délai de 4 mois, votre demande de carte de séjour est refusée.

https://www.service-public.fr/particuliers/vosdroits/F22116

[EM]

[quote user="nomoss"]In this case the SVA principle could be interpreted to mean that your application is approved but you will receive your documentation in due course.[/quote]

I'd actually be fine with that. :) As long as I had some official confirmation of it.

[quote user="nomoss"]Maybe you could visit the office and ask for an "Attestation de droits à l'assurance maladie", which is the printed document establishing your rights, on the basis that your application was approved under the loi SVA.[/quote]

That's an interesting idea! Would they know be able to find my application by my name at the office, though? And would they even know anything about these SVA laws? I have the feeling people don't walk in with such demands every day. :)

In fact, I tried to submit my application at my local CPAM office, but they told me it has to be mailed in. They also told me I should receive a response in 1 - 1.5 months.

My other concern is that they could just deny having received the application and I have no way of proving otherwise. I do have a registered mail receipt for posting it, but this only proves that I sent them *something* - it could have been an empty envelope for all anyone knows. So, as a starting point, I'd really like to get them to acknowledge that they actually received the application. Perhaps the local office can help with that, even if they know nothing about SVA.

[Chancer]

SVA vaut rien!!!

[EuroTrash]

From reading the govt website it looks to me as if you have to specifically initiate it. You write a letter saying 'if I don't here within 2 months from now I will take that as meaning acceptance', and the 2 months starts from when CPAM (in this case) receive the letter.

The clock doesn't start ticking automatically every time an application is submitted unless it is part of that particular procedure, such as declarations of works, in which case it tells you so on the application form. If it doesn't say this on the application form, you would have to initiate it.

Or at least, that's how I read it.

Also there are so many get out clauses - it can be withdrawn if you haven't met the criteria, provided all the necessary information, etc, etc.

I suspect that in practical terms, what would happen is that 60 days after sending your letter invoking SVA you will receive a request for further information. And then the 2 months will be reset to the date when you send the requested info (which will probably be the same as what you already sent).

Unfortunately some things do take longer than 2 months and I wouldn't put too much faith in this law. There is a theory that says the more times you hassle fonctionnaires, the more times they get your file out to see where it's got to, and put it back at the very bottom of the pile.

[EM]

Oh! Could you provide the exact text, please, and a link to the page? I'd love to know the exact wording a letter requires to "invoke" SVA, too. If this is how it works then I might as well send such a letter with every written request.