Competition !

[Miki]

LAST EDITED ON 04-Feb-04 AT 02:48 PM (GMT)

Further to the thread on "How many more" here is something that will cause rumblings perhaps?

In recent months we have been getting more and more persons staying here from the UK who want to start up gites or B&B. We, for many years, living in 3 different areas of the country, have offered help and information to these people, of how best to go about it all.

I spoke with another couple of friends (also in the B&B gite business and in fact for longer than us)today on this subject about assisting others and their reply has had me thinking hard.

They said that they no longer offer any more advice, other than, "the area is saturated, look elsewhere if you really want to do this". We thought about it and have to say, they are perhaps right in their attitude.

At the end of the day, for everyone that arrives in your village, area, region, is another one capable of taking some of your potential clients, so why should you assist them to become a competitor when the area is already saturated?

For those with families or anyone in fact, who need their B&B or gite livelihood to live on, why should they assist or help any others who wish to open a similar enterprise in their vicinity ?

What do others think ?

Miki

[Larenaudie]

Interesting point!! But I for one will happily give advice and welcome competition. An old saying springs to mind about, getting out of the kitchen!!!!

Like most of you, we gave up everything to come to France and rely on our B+B income for a livelihood. We would recommend it to anyone who has what it takes to survive in our industry, the only word of caution I would offer is, don't think it's going to be easy - but have a go.

Cheers K

[Will]

Miki, I think that attitude is perfectly reasonable. There are all sorts of ifs and buts, but in general why should you give away income that you have worked hard to generate?

Of course, it's totally different for us. (As long as you don't stop speaking to us because we're on the other side of the fence). We depend more on selling people their potential gites etc than from anything we might make from accommodating them while they are looking.

How about you? What proportion of tourists to property seekers do you reckon you have?

Will (50)

[A_Redman]

For as long as I have been posting on the forum I have recommended that people who want to research gites. Stay close to but outside the area they are thinking of working in. Try booking the year before in high season in the areas they are looking at. If the market is as tough as you say I do not think there is any harm in letting people know the booking situation and how much worse it is this year.

I know of two established gite / chamber de hote business close to our house in the Haute Vienne where the husband has gone back to real work this year because bookings/income were so much down last year.

[Ash]

Whilst I agree with you, in that there are many people who are looking at their life style and looking to make a break, albeit, moving to France to run a BB/Gite complex, just ask yourself, how many will actually DO IT?

For starters, many people get fed up with living the UK and just the same as some, who do the lottery, they look at how they can change their life. The rising house prices in the UK have given lots of people the opportunity to look at the options available to them. Having the resources from your own property, either by selling it or re-mortgaging it, has now offered lots, the chance to look beyond their life at present. This, in my humble opinion, is why so many are looking for starting the good life here in France, but just the same as when the original Good Life was broadcast the 70s, there arent many, who faced with selling up, or taking on further huge financial commitments and leaving behind the familiar life in the UK even though it is pretty awful at times, for many reasons, not many will get past 1st base

How many people will leave a perfectly nice suburban life (however boring)and life style, holidays, takeaways, people who speak your language and swap it to move to a country which it is non English speaking, more beauractical and a completely different culture, to make a living or hope to make a living in these circumstances, knowing that they will have to pay much more tax, have people living in their houses, using their facilities, accommodating all sorts of people, good and bad and not being able to complain, as these very same people are their livelihoodthe answer NOT MANY! How many have any idea how hard it is to work in a service industry...NOT MANY

I cant blame people for looking to make changes regarding their life, we did the same, but truly, there were just as many who dreamt of running a smallholding in the 1970s, thanks to one TV programme, but none who ever actually did it.

Lots of people dream and usually, most realise eventually it is a pipe dream. The reality of actual putting it into being can usually make most people wake up.

I remember people saying to us arent you brave, well brave we maybe, but blinkered we are not. It is nice to dream and it is nice to talk to people about their dreams, but I, personally, think you should temper the dream with reality. How many people would ever consider running a self catering complex or B&B in the UK.a very few.

Finally, just how many sell up, after a very short time and return, after the money runs out or they find that life here is not what they thought it would be.



Carol

[Woodchurchzoo]

Interesting reading from everybody.

My husband and I will have our B&B up and running by March this year and are looking forward to it, even though I know it will be very hard work.

We were given advice by other B&B owners almost 18 months ago now, but I must say that none of them live in our area.

I think I would have to judge everyone individually before given them advice on setting up where I live, but I would not discourage them from living in France. So far it has turned out to be a great move for us and the children.

We just hope that we can make enough of a living from the B&B and our gardening to keep us going. We just want to have a good family life and be accepted by our community.

Not sure yet whether we will register to be in the tourist offices, not sure how complicated it is - all in good time.

Nicola

[Clarkey]

VERY SELFISH & UTTERLY ENGLISH !!!

Small minded values will always breed contempt, thankfully something I do not see in the French! Shame to see it is very evident in some of the English who live here ! Get back to the Uk I say, where I'm sure you will find lots of like minded fools!

Leave those of us English souls who have come here to escape the bigots, to be hopeful, better that, than have the attitude of some of you. We live in a very big world, there is plenty of room for all of us!!


HAPPY DAYS!!!

[Alan]

I think its a sad world if you cant offer some advice. I do see your point. But at the end of the day if these people have done there homework they would know if the area is saturated or not. In every business there is competition we would all like to think that are places are the best and the service is second to none. But this is something you have to work at and I think a few people may have come complacent over the years.
I will admit that a lot of people seem to think opening a chamber d hote or gite business is easy money and have no real idea of the time it all takes.it does amaze me the amount of people we have spoken to who think they can just up sticks and come over and live the high life without putting much effort into it. Maybe you should start to run some kind of training course to show the ups and downs of running a chamber d hote I am sure after a week in high season many people would think twice before starting. We are lucky for us its just to provide the little extras in life as my partner works full time but if you were to work out my hourly rate it makes you wonder if its all worth it. In my case it is something I enjoy doing.

[Suzyq]

Light the blue touch paper and stand well back, this has obviously touched a raw nerve! I have a lot of sympathy with how you feel; especially if b&b is the greater part of your income.

There are 2 parts to consider - the first whether you should give advice to your guests on how to set up and possibly compete with you; well you aren't obliged to give any information; the questions can be redirected with skill and you can give very general help; that they can get anywhere. If you feel strongly you could even use subtle spoiling tactics ie how difficult it is, what long hours, the taxes, lack of privacy etc. The chances are that they will already have picked up tips, just by staying with you.

The second part is whether we should feel antagonistic towards competition. Well it is open for anybody to set up a business as they see fit. If the area is saturated they will dilute a difficult market; but if they have done their homework properly, they will know this and if sensible should think of something else to do or go to another area. With heavy competition; the theory is that only those who offer the best or different will survive - of course this isn't always the case. The best you can do is have a good presence and high standards and offer good value for money, and be really welcoming; customers will come back and will pass the word around. You have a head start already.
And remember a lot of people dream of opening B&b or gites; for most it remains a dream and they don't actually do it or they only last a year or 2 - it is hard work after all.

Competition on a level playing field can be for the good; making you rethink your operations and giving an injection of enthusiasm. We can all get complacent if things just go on the same year after year.

Suze

[ckenway]

I read your posting and the replies with some interest and to be quite honest I think you are right. As you know I posted some recent figures about the Aude area in your other thread and would like to think the Aude area is not as popular as up north (particularly with Brits) although I dont really know. Based on the published figures in Aude there are 52 beds (both Chambres DHote and Gites) for every person per night in season, could this figure be even higher up in your neck of the woods, I suspect so but dont know.

I like you have give a little advice to people in the past and as so many others have said told it like it is but have come to the conclusion that there will be no more Mr nice guy this year. Competition is hard regardless of the nationalities involved (was the friend you talked to English?) and when the chips are down the French will protect themselves first over all other nationalities and rightly so. I say this because of the stupid posting about being typically English, that person needs to wake up and smell the coffee.

We are lucky, we dont have much competition in our direct area and I want to keep it that way. I have given help on where we advertise and the results and who we wont be using this season and I think your attitude is right in these matters so I wont in future.

Last season we saw many Brits coming here to follow their dream as we did nearly two years back. Paint a room, stick a bed and some furniture in, put a sign up and wait for the money to roll in. When you explain your average day and what has to be done, the work involved and how little time you get to yourself they seem to look at you as if you dont know what you are talking about so in the end I think OK just get on with it and wait and see.

So yes you are totally correct, business is business, know body helped us we had to find things out the hard way. Lets not forget the sort of answer you would get if you opened a shop next door to somebody doing the same thing and then ask them how to run it successfully, it wont be very nice should you even get an answer.

With regards to being in a competitive market well thats OK if the market is not at saturation point, once it reaches that point people have to cut corners and that is what is happening, to quote from the Perspectives magazine in Aude (Feb 2004) A tough stance is going to be taken by the Department of Tourism and the Conseil General due to the fact that many Campsites, Gites and Chambres DHote fall well below International standards.

[Annabella]

Miki, you are quite right. I have just read one of your previous messages in which you give advice. No other industry would disclose trade secrets. Ever since our arrival we have been cautious about giving advice - other than the truth. Fundamentally you need a to make a large investment in property, employ at least cleaners and gardners unless you want to work your fingers to the bone (literally) and at the same time you will drive yourself insane with the employment laws. Plus, you need to spend a fortune on insurance and ending up by failing to make enough money go on holiday.

Is there a profit in this business? If there is any spare cash we have to fix the drains, and the roof - this is all in our living accommodation, our guests have it good.

The fact is that if people continue to provide free consultancy they increase the probability of poor returns or the failure of their business. Instead of advising newcomers to go in B&B, suggest they go into B&B Consultancy - open up a new field and get saturated on that.