The perfect hosts?

[letrangere]

A friend writes to tell me about a B&B they stayed at recently in the Loire Valley.  British owned, beautiful place, lovely rooms, immaculate ensuite, owners very helpful, good food too.  Problem was, their stay was spoilt somewhat by the uphill struggle each evening to make conversation over dinner.  For as nice as their hosts were, neither had much to say.  He was obviously a quiet type, happiest working on the house or in the garden and was much better during the day on a one-to-one basis.  They couldn't quite work out whether she was snooty or perhaps just a bit miserable.

But surely it can't be easy having to eat dinner with complete strangers each evening at the end of a long hard day, how do you B&B owners cope with this?  Does it help to be naturally outgoing and chatty if you're in this line of business?  Are their times when you wish you could just sneak away in the evening and have a sandwich in front of the TV?   

M 

 

 

[Quillan]

It’s not really that difficult but you have to have a system and you have to sort of interrogate the guests without them knowing and make them instantly at ease in your home and this starts from the second they drive through the gates.

 

The first things you need to know and understand are the nationalities of the people. Knowing the nationalities is not a problem if they have booked in advance but understanding their culture is something you learn over time or if you are lucky and are well travelled you have a pretty good idea.

 

 

We start by offering people a drink as soon as they arrive, we call it a welcoming drink. We then take them to their room(s) and give a run through everything in the room like how to use the shutters (nothing worse than having a rattling shutter in the night because somebody didn’t know how to lock them back), heating in the winter etc. If the people are tea drinkers I show them how to get fresh milk from the dinning room fridge because we have those little ‘plastic’ milk things which (as I tell the guests) are pretty disgusting if you are a tea drinker.

 

We then take them for a walk round the garden (we have just over 2 acres) and show them the garden railway, the views of the mountains and very importantly the vegetable patch dropping in little things like ‘we are not organic but I only spray if I need to and this is what we use for the guests dinner’ this often results in them booking meals with us.

 

We then have our drinks over which I explain that we try to run true to the Chambres d’hôtes principle in that they are part of the family whilst with us so they should make them selves at home and that basically the only areas that are out of bounds are the kitchen and our bedroom. We also tell them to ask if they want anything or have a general question and not to be shy. This helps break the ice and makes the guests feel at ease, it’s a great opportunity to learn about the guests, things like what they do/did as a living, hobbies, have they got animals. children etc. The trick is not to use this information immediately but to ‘file’ it away for future use.

 

Your guests now know the house rules, hopefully feel at ease and you have set the stage for the nights meal.

 

Evening meals then become a real pleasure and great fun. We normally start at seven and finish at eleven. I have the information I require from the arrival chat and always keep a smile on. Of course you get some people who you just don’t like but you can’t be rude or just ignore them, you must treat them all the same. Sometimes you really have to force yourself.

 

Flattery always works providing you are not to smarmy, comments like “We don’t see many men here with child brides so how did you meet”, works well with the over 50’s. Of course there are taboo subjects like ‘don’t mention the war’ to the Germans although I love getting in the 66 world cup in although sadly not many remember it now. With blokes sport and cars are always good, keep off politics and religion of course.

 

For further tips both Malcom Hilliers book on Entertaining and of course the (couldn’t do without) Debrett’s Guide to Entertaining are always kept near to hand.

[Miki]

Good post Margaret.

Guests come in all sizes and guises.

The trick I think, is to weigh them up pretty quickly. Some want to chat, some have had a long journey and just want to go to their room, some want a drink and chat some just want a cup of tea and relax alone, it really is quite a melange.

When we had the gîtes, we found it best to give them a drink on arrival then leave them for a while to settle in and not to keep bothering them. We told them that if they wanted anything we could be found somewhere around the house or grounds. Worst thing we found, was to ask "Is everything alright" after just an hour or so. People are settling in, weighing it all up and for sure anyone could find something wrong for them personally, quite quickly. Give them time to settle in and relax, they will come to you when they either need something or want to ask questions.

Anyway, back to B&B. I really cannot see that by being as those people were, it will work for them. Look at any good pub or inn etc and mine hosts, are the reason it works or doesn't. If I can get people to laugh and have a joke, then I feel we are on the way to making "friends". Of course some people are not that way inclined and are studious or serious and just want to be left alone, so that is quickly realised and space given to them.

As far as eating with everyone on every night, although GDF wax lyrically about all of us being at the same table and eating away in harmony, it is not always practicable. When we have 15 eating, quite common in summer and other busy periods, it is totally impossible to cook, serve, wash up, and generally sit and eat with the guests.

I will always find time to talk individually with them all but for Tina it is simply not practical to leave the kitchen and sit with the guests. She will come out at the end of the night and will often sit and drink with a guest(s)and chat about this and that, especially if it is with guests she can really relate to.

Most if not all the food is home made and I am sure the ladies on here will sympathise with her and how the heck she manages to cope, let alone be expected to sit and eat with the guests as well. The trick here is to get your guests to talk among themselves and to quickly form an ambiance in the room. BUT it can only takes one person to be a "miserable stuck up twit" and it will make it double hard to get that ambiance, so I tend to pretend that person is not there and give the other guests my full attention. That type of guest is pretty rare (thankfully) but every year you just know that the family or guest from hell is due through your door at any moment. All those who run a B&B or gîtes will know exactly what I am taking about, right ?

The lady of the B&B you talk about could well have been snooty or simply tired of running a B&B or perhaps, just wanted to be back in the UK?

As I have mentioned before, the B&B, although part of the house, is in fact completely seperate to our private accommodation. We have a salon de residents and TV room which is for the guests only and is only used by us when we are closed or quiet, the dining room is solely used for the B&B or lunches/dinners with large groups of friends when we are closed. We are completely seperate, having our own private salon/lounge/living room (depends on what part of the UK you come from, chose your own word !!)

The kitchen is ours and so we are completely independant, unlike many others but of course we each work differently but I can only speak for us by saying we really could not run a B&B unless it was totally seperate from the guests and we had our own private space to relax and live in.

We do get tired obviously and it is so vitally important to us, to be able to go and "watch TV, have a sandwich" as you say Margaret, whenever possible.

So guess where I was last night whilst Tina looked after the 6 who ate ? Sorry but I couldn't possibly miss it ! For lunch today, we are going to Plancoet with good friends and that again, is pretty vital to our mental approach. We try to get out as often as we can and get away from the house, it is too eay to become institutionalised by staying in the house 24/7 and that would drive us totally bonkers !!

As you can see by Chris's reply and mine, we do things slightly differently, his way works for him and our way works for us (hopefully !)and the mixing of ideas and choosing what suits you and your business best is the way to get the best out of ones B&B. you ahve to try an dfinds a way or running a B&B, not let it run you and that's harder to do, than one thinks !!

[Coco]

And we're somewhere in between!!!  Well, last year and the year before we definitely took Chris's approach but this year we want to back off a little.  Not because we're losing interest but because we want to give it 100% - sounds a bit daft I know, BUT.... by September last year we were knackered (now I know why Miki closes for 4 months of the year, just wish our turnover was enough to be able to do that!)  And a few times I felt that I wasn't giving my all, and certainly as far as eating with the guests was concerned, I felt as though I was force-feeding myself.  Night after night after night of 4 course dinners is very hard tolerate and yes, I would have loved to escape occasionally to a "sandwich (or perhaps chilli or curry) in front of the TV".  So this year we are doing a bit of building work which we will hope will allow us to do this.

We are breaking through into our barn which will give us a bigger kitchen, out of sight of the guests (at the moment the kitchen/dining area just has a type of high "breakfast bar" dividing it) and all too often I find I am being accompanied by a guest while preparing dinner!  We are also creating a family suite, which has also resulted in LOADS more bookings for the summer already and we are moving the dining room into the lounge area and making the small dining area into a sitting area for guests because we will have our own "escape area" in the new kitchen   Now I thoroughly enjoy our guests and way of life but sometimes, just sometimes, you need to get away from it.  Apart from anything else, it will now mean that we will be catering for more people so I will need to spend more time in the kitchen during meals, so this year we have decided that as long as there are 6 or more having dinner we will become the servers and then slink off to our own area once we have got the ball rolling.  This I hope will keep us fresh and keen enough to give our all for the WHOLE season.

However, back to how you make them feel at ease.  We have found that 80% of guests just like to talk about themselves and what they are doing on their holiday (perfectly natural really).  The other 20% want to know all about us, where we came from, what we did, whether we enjoy it here, would we go back. So sometimes we end up giving a potted history of our lives over dinner.  Generally we just ask a few key questions and we are all away.  Like "where do you come from?  Where are you going? (many are en-route somewhere else)  Have you been to France before? (This part of France, if they're French).  First nights are usually pretty easy because you know nothing about each other so there is lots to ask about. 

If they're staying a bit longer then we always start with "what have you done today?  Where did you go?"  which can lead into a conversation that will last all night.  If they are staying for longer periods it can get easier still because then you begin to get to know the people, their sense of humour etc and you can have a laugh and joke with them. 

As Miki says, you somtimes get the guests from hell, which doesn't necessarily mean that they are horrible, just difficult to relax with.  We had a couple of French guests last year who just didn't speak at all, we asked questions and we got monosyllabic replies, long pause while I prepared my next question, monosyllabic answer, long pause - it was one of the longest meals of my life.

It's also difficult to know with some people whether you have been successful.  We had a French couple this weekend who were exceptionally quiet and yet not only did they leave a long, detailed and very complimentary message in our visitors book but then emailed us when they got back to Paris to say what a lovely weekend they'd had..... makes it all worthwhile!

 

[Russethouse]

>>.Flattery always works providing you are not to smarmy, comments like “We don’t see many men here with child brides so how did you meet”, works well with the over 50’s<<<

That really made me laugh Chris, but I would label you an 'old smoothy' and we would be going OUT to dinner.

I would hate to have to eat 'on the job' like that - I did it for years, abeit with children,(other peoples) and felt I just couldn't relax. Old habits die hard.

[Coco]

[quote]>>.Flattery always works providing you are not to smarmy, comments like “We don’t see many men here with child brides so how did you meet”, works well with the over 50’s but I would label you an 'old...[/quote]

We wouldn't dare try something like that - a bit too close for comfort I'm affraid.  On one occasion we had an English guy with his mail-order Russian bride, and more recently we've had a Parisian guy clearly staying here with his 20+ years younger mistress.  Almost as dangerous an area as religion and politics I fear!!

[letrangere]

Gosh, what interesting replies, thanks everyone.  Would love to stay with Chris, I'll go anywhere to hear my early 50s husband being told he's taken a child bride, though little chance, I fear!  And I quite fancy reading the books he recommends.  We agree, Miki, we think this couple must be having second thoughts for they can't be tired, surely, this early on in the season?  Makes you wonder what they'll be like by August! But from what you all say, it's pretty clear that this profession requires very special skills.  Do you think people realise the amount of diplomacy, cooking, socialising, cleaning, laundry(?) plus marketing and administration involved when they start out?  Other thing my girlfriend asks (I've told her to join the Forum, she has a house in the Lot) is, "are you ever worried that people might pinch things?"  Apparently this place had a sitting room with lots of bits of pretty decorative china and even one or two nice pieces of silver.  Is this sensible, in addition to the fact that they increase the dusting?  M

[Cerise]

Interesting topic.  We tend to be somewhere near Quillan's approach.  Have had some lovely evenings but I hate eating so much.  However, I have now started missing out a few courses and so long as I have a plate in front of me no-one seems to notice.

We have found it difficult to get some (not all) of our French guests to relax, they tend to be much more formal than the English - we had one couple who never even told us their first names and continuously addressed us as Monsieur & Madame.  At the end of their stay however, they wrote very complimentary things in the guest book and even sent us a thank you card afterwards.

If anyone has any bright ideas how I can keep my guests out of the kitchen I would be grateful as the position of said room means that people pass by on way to and from terrace, lounge and their rooms.  I've tried shutting the door and then they just pop their heads in the window on the terrace - grrr.

Seriously, I think anyone doing evening meals has to really like entertaining and like Coco I wish that our budget would allow us to shut for a couple of months - one day perhaps?  Actually I find distant relatives and vague acquaintances the worst guests as they tend to presume on the relationship and hang around all the time - even worse try to be 'helpful' by moving things or laying table wrong way etc.  Even though you tell them through gritted teeth that you are fine, they insist on dumping all the apero glasses on the worksurface you have just cleared to lay out 8 starters.  I like strangers or close friends best as the former are on their best behaviour and the latter you can tell to go away if they are annoying you!

As to the worry about having things stolen - well, we felt that we would have to be relaxed about it and so far we have not lost anything.  As we have a maximum of 8 guests I suppose it is quite easy to keep an eye on people, but we let everyone have keys.  My husband has his collection of Hornby trains in a glass cupboard in the dining room and we have ornaments, pictures etc everywhere.  It is our home after all and we feel that people do respect that.  Perhaps we are simply lucky, but other than one or or two rather obnoxious children our guests are generally charming people.

Maggi

 

[David584]

A view from the other side of the "fence"??

I vacationed (is that a correct term?) at an establishment that belongs to one of the posters on this subject.
This was the first time I had taken a vacation in France since a school exchange visit back in 1968.
I will not mention the place that I stayed at as it might be conceived to be advertising.

My hosts are lovely people and the food was second to none. However I can understand the reticence of one poster when it comes to sitting down with guests night after night and partaking of a four course meal. The accommodation was superb - it had been a long time since I had slept solidly for eight to nine hours a night. Even the bags under my eyes had started to disappear by the end of my stay. Perhaps the genuine calvados helped?   

Yes, the questions that you have all outlined were asked and all the answers given and without further prompting.
I was even introduced to another member of their family and all four of us went out to dinner on the Thursday evening of my stay.
I thoroughly enjoyed my vacation - I have yet to line up another one - however there is one question I would like to ask.

I am a retired Police Officer and during my service I was trained to learn and observe the contents of the Human Rights Act 1998 (now referredd to as the HRA), as applicable to the UK, and the European Convention of Human Rights.
Under the HRA, every person has a right to privacy and security of person, this being something which I have a tendency to observe.

I appreciate that you folks who run B&B's,Chambressd'hotes etc MUST HAVE QUALITY TIME to yourselves. So how do you achieve this?
Should there be a rule that a "guest" should vacate the room by a certain time in the morning and NOT return before a certain time of the afternoon, thus giving that quality time? I do not know the answer to that question. Perhaps some or all of you can enlighten me.

Do not get me wrong, I thoroughly enjoyed my stay in France. However there were times when I thought that I was actually intruding on my hosts private time. A time that is special to them and them alone. That is not something I wish to do again WHEN I return to France. 

My regards to you all and may all of you have a very successful season. 

 

 

[Ian Hoare<br>All the best<br>Ian<br>La Souvigne Corrèze<br>http:www.souvigne.com]

Hi Margaret,

As others have said, what a fascinating series of replies your comments and questions have opened up.

I'm too mean to answer as fully as others have while on line, so if I miss some of the points, forgive me! To start right in with your specific questions and comments. I think that running a Table d'Hôtes is vastly more demanding than running a B&B, though as Miki (I know) and others have said, it's a major plus for guests, so one more or less has to do it.

Yes, there are often times, especially in late October in the run up to Toussaint, when you're running on the fumes of what's left in the tank, and all you really want to do is to go to bed, or watch Cadfael in a totally mindless way. I'll come to how we cope later. I do think that it's important for a host not only to be there, but to make a real effort to animate and "lubricate" - I'm not just talking about booze - the conversation, especially if it seems to be flagging.

So if she was sitting looking like a wet weekend, it might have been better had she stayed in the kitchen despite GdF's comments about the hosts accompanying the guests at their meals. There are all sort of reasons why she may not have been firing on all four cylinders, wrong age, time of month, headache, bad couple of guests yesterday, missing kids and/or GB. But although almost all of these have happened to us, we feel very strongly indeed that we shouldn't inflict our problems on others. They're on holiday, they are paying to enjoy themselves and it's our job to make sure they do.

Now then how do we cope? David's right, quality time alone together (especially if you're open most of the year) is incredibly precious, and I am afraid that sometimes I'm not as good with guests (or friends) as I should be to protect it! But we're both pretty affable people, and enjoy peoples' company, so I like to think it's pretty rare.

We cope largely because we "actually live in 7a, the house next door!" as the triumphant last line of the wonderful Flander's and Swan song had it. We bought what we call "the little house" to convert and run as a B&B, so it is almost entirely self contained. The risk with that, is that our guests may feel that they are excluded from our lives (snigger, they sort of are - and that's part of our "coping mechanism"), so we have to make it abundantly clear that if they have a problem, need anything, or just feel like a chat they shouldn't hesitate to come and ring at the bell. We also pop in during their stay and chat, if they're there during the day, and of course spend as much time with them as they feel they want over breakfast every morning..

We're possibly a bit older than most of you, (>60) so we don't have the stamina and resilience to cook every night. We more or less did at first, and absolutely knackered ourselves for peanuts. So what we have now settled down to doing - and explaining verbally and in writing to our guests - is that we are delighted to feed them the day they arrive - and on any other day we're cooking for guests, but that we feel that "with so many wonderful restaurants in the vicinity, it would be a real shame for them not to try the first class local cuisine."! (What that really means is that we can be left in peace to eat the left overs in front of the telly!!) In practice, I won't cook more than 3-4 days a week, and never more than 3 days in a row, no matter what. This is _our_ way of being able to cope and _enjoy_ coping with cooking 5 courses for up to 8 people, as well as doing all the cleaning, shopping and running our own lives, without having to rely on help from outside.

Both Jacquie and I feel very strongly that we're hosts, and that at all times one of us must be present throughout the meal. So we organise ourselves pretty tightly - hopefully the guests don't notice. J goes down (our house is upside down) and puts the heat on under the soup (we always without exception start the meal with one), cuts the bread and fills the water jugs, while I stay upstairs with the guests, making introductions, trying to make them feel at ease if needed, though with most of our guests it isn't, serving drinks and just chatting on. We often have mixed language evenings, and that's a REAL trial, more then it would be if we weren't both bilingual. Anyway, when Jacquie comes up, she'll take over upstairs and a few minutes later, I'll go down and dish the soup, doing final seasoning and stuff. We'll then both stay for the first course, during which I explain that if we're to be able to survive we can't afford to eat 5 courses, so we're an odd course couple!!

I'll then clear the soup bowls etc and Jacquie will usually take them down, while I dispense the entree - very often cold meat, or a quiche. She'll then stay down to do last minute things for the main course - carve the meat, dish the vegetables and put everything into the hostess for the 15 mins or so it takes for them to eat the paté. By the time she's done, I've cleared the plates and usually poured the second wine (we usually have white for the apero (or other drinks here) and first courses, and then switch to red for the main course). She will then start dishing, while I take the plates down and stack them into the dishwasher. ..... and so it goes on. There's always someone with them, just exactly as we always were when we had dinner parties - in fact that's what we try to create - a civilised 5 course dinner party, using good crockery and the family silver. Actually, in the summer, we now eat out under the auvent in front of the house. A great improvement, as we don't have to lug everything upstairs, and also because by 10.30 it's often getting a little chilly so they often decide to cut short the post prandial coffee and tisanes.

We've had our share of nightmares. One couple where he was entirely incapable of initiating any conversation and almost incapable of replying, their 9 year old son whose only interest was football, and had little enough (not surprising at 9) conversation even on that topic, and the wife who had some vocal chord disorder which meant she could only whisper to her husband. "Have you had this problem long, madame?" "Oh no, only three years." How I managed to avoid spluttering my wine all over the guests I'll never know :-) At the other end of the table was a very mondain couple from Lyon - dentists, who were bringing their daughter to a camp, "in the country don't you know".He'd decided that he couldn't possible venture into the Corrèze without dogs and fishing tackle, so finally they'd come with both cars! Conversation that evening was not easy. At least they were all french!

Oh goodness - I could go on and on. Like Chris, I believe that well over half the work is done at the beginning. We have very little "passage", as we are usually booked to 75% or more well in advance for the high season (July is already 60% booked as I write), so our "first contact" is nearly always via the phone or email, and we work very hard indeed to try to make the person phoning feel special immediately. We ask them if we may use first names, right from the start, which does a lot to break the ice. Even if they're phoning in the middle of a dinner, and Jacquie's downstairs! We, too feel it's important to offer a drink when they arrive - I'm afraid our's don't sweep in through gates, but struggle up the hill from the square below! So we sit in the Séjour with them if it's not warm enough to sit outside under the auvent, and ask them all the usual questions, not that we have to, really, as most people staying are pretty convivial really and like to volunteer the info.

I MUST stop.... Sorry.

[Cerise]

I'll reply to David H - anyone mad enough to run Chambres d'Hotes doesn't have human rights (joke before HR activists start!)

Actually, as everyone is at pains to point out elsewhere, we are not full all of the time so we have our 'Quality Time' when we can. I have to say that after years of salaried jobs it took us a while to realise that we could have Thursday off if we wanted to, provided there were no guests.

If I want a night off from cooking in the summer I usually look around for a local event - Jazz Night at the Pizzeria, local fete, etc and suggest to guests that we all go.  The non-French speakers anyway are delighted to be taken to something 'local' and surprisingly people always want to go.  We also offer at the start of each visit to book restaurants for prople and recommend several - hopefully then they will go out some nights.

If you want to be a perfect guest David then can I suggest the following:-

If you ask for breakfast at 8.30 - don't stay in bed 'til 11.

If you stay at the house during the day (quite a few guests do) don't follow host/hostess round like a small dog - it makes people feel stalked.

If you have wet clothes hang them on line provided not bedroom chairs.

Don't harrass whoever is doing the cooking.

Relax and be a guest - people constantly offering to help make me feel I'm not doing my job properly.

If your hosts are especially nice to you, they probably want to be so don't feel guilty.  The best compliment we have had is when one of our neightbours popped round and said "Oh I didn't know you had friends staying - haven't you any guests this week?"  We were pleased to point out that the folk having such a good time were our paying guests.

Maggi

www.les-cerisiers.net

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Quillan]

I guess spending 20 odd years in the service industry is a help and as somebody said you have to develop the sense or ‘sizing up’ your guests on their arrival. Some things are obvious, bible on the back seat of the car and chap in long baggy shorts with leather sandals and black socks (got to be English). Not the person you want to make a religious comment too mainly for the fear they will try and convert you.

 

We would be stupid to say we are full all the time so like Maggie we do get time to ourselves and we do get out other than visiting the local supermarket and farmers shops.

 

I think the import thing is that we are in a service industry and as such entertaining guests, well the ones that want to be entertained, is all part of the job. We take the attitude of never say no. By this I mean the guests are made to feel they can ask about, or for, anything and we will always give them an answer. Not always immediately because we in turn have to find out but then it helps us to know the area better. Nothing is a no much for us or them.

 

One important thing is that you don’t know their financial details and for all you know it might be a hire car, they have little money and to them this is the most treasured part of the year, the thing they work towards, it’s very precious time for them. Therefore we see our job as making it as enjoyable as possible, its like a responsibility in a way.

 

We do push the local scene for meals and activities. This is good for business as these people will often send people to us because they know we will encourage the guests to visit them. We also benefit from things like free wine and goats cheese, when people ask where it comes from we can tell them and with a bit of luck they go and buy some to take home. Likewise we also push local restaurants and tell them the virtues of local cuisine this also gives us a night off. We have a six week carnival in Quillan during the summer with music from all over the world and we often take people there. Unlike Maggie we don’t take them to the local fete mainly because it is for the village (all 250 of us) and in a way it’s personal if you know what I mean.

 

I have to say again I really love what we do. The rewards for having happy guests far outweigh the occasional ‘difficult’ one and believe me we have had one or two but even they went away happy.

 

But before any budding B&B owner reads this and dash’s off to buy one the above is the payment for the hard work that we put in 24/7. It’s an endless cycle of cleaning, washing, ironing, cooking, gardening, entertaining and more. Do we make a profit, do we hell, but we do survive, well just about.

[mascamps.com]

It's amazing how differently people run their places when you read about it in this particular thread.

We couldn't really cope with Quillan's method and wouldn't be keen on staying a place like that ourselves. But then, that's just us and we've recently had a couple who, with the benefit of 20/20 hindsight, were looking for somewhere exactly like that.

What has really surprised me is how few "bad" guests we've had. I don't think it would be more than three or four in a year (says he, touching wood and hoping that the coming year keeps up that record!). On the other side of the coin, we've had far more excellent guests. The French family who stayed with us for réveillon continued to send us e-mails and letters of thanks long after they'd gone - so many in fact that I had to stop replying to get the work done!

The French constantly surprise us. They are, collectively, by far the neatest nationality that we've encountered. We'd 27 of them here for the réveillon and were expecting to take ages collecting up all the sheets and whatnot for the laundry. When we went round the rooms, we found everyone had a neatly folded pile of sheets and towels. The cleanup took us less time than even two or three rooms would have done normally!

 

Arnold

 

[Quillan]

Funny thing is Arnold you probably would like it here. You see the thing is the correct ‘reading’ of your guests which I like to think we get around 80 to 90% right. Some want full on involvement and see you as the host and entertainer others want a very laid back and left alone type host so you learn to become a bit of a chameleon, you change your approach for each type of guest. Having a park for a garden means people can slope of with a table and chairs and picnic or, as some Germans have done, lay out on a sun bed start rollock naked with dips in the river every hour or so.

 

We don’t aim at the UK market, very few Brits come down this way for a holiday, it’s too far. So most of our visitors are French (70%) followed by Spanish, Belgians, Dutch, Germans, Swiss and Italians (we have also had Russians, Bulgarians, Rumanians, New Zeeland, Australians and an American). I would say that only around 2 to 3% of our guests are English. The thing is I would say the Brits are the ones to cause problems, the French are fantastic as are the Germans and Swiss, in fact all the other nationalities are really good. We sometimes have a lot of problems getting them out the place.

 

We get holiday pictures sent to us (normally of ourselves and animals taken by the guests) not to mention Christmas cards would you believe. Most of them seem to think we are their best mates now and we frequently get invites to go and stay with them (I wonder if they would charge us?). I think we could do a very cheap round Europe tour although I would be very surprised if we would ever take any of them up on their offers as we are just to busy but its nice of them to offer.

[mascamps.com]

I'm quite surprised at how difference our split of guests is from yours as we're just down the road from you. We've about 35% French, 35% UK, a sizeable (and growing) chunk of Spaniards and the remainder a similar assortment to your own. The only problems we've had is with the english (and I use that term to exclude the scottish etc.) but with your small proportion of them I guess you've not found that yet.

We've not been here long enough to get quite the quantity of mail that you're picking up but I think that if the réveillon group is anything to go by we can look forward to a fairly full mailbox in the years to come.

 

Arnold

 

[Catalpa]

This is a fascinating thread. Thank you to you all for explaining your philosophies so fully - I do mean that, it's not a tongue-in-cheek remark.

If guests are feeling semi-sociable, would you be offended (or relieved?!) if they made clear that they were happy to eat solo but would be delighted if you'd join them for coffee, or coffee and pudding course maybe? I'm thinking here if these were the only guests eating in as opposed to, say, several independent couples. And yes, I am thinking in terms of our own preferred style of holidaying!

[Coco]

If guests are feeling semi-sociable, would you be offended (or relieved?!) if they made clear that they were happy to eat solo but would be delighted if you'd join them for coffee, or coffee and pudding course maybe? I'm thinking here if these were the only guests eating in as opposed to, say, several independent couples.

I'd welcome it with open arms!  I really don't fancy (and can't afford physically!) to eat 4 course dinners every night  However, they would have to let me know this in advance, as table d'hotes is done on a small scale and therefore the food is bought in especially for each meal, unlike a restaurant where it would just be there anyway.  So it would not be economically viable if we didn't know if advance.  When we've got our new kitchen of course, it will be a lot simpler.  If they don't want  us to eat with them we can just nip next door!

[Ian Hoare<br>All the best<br>Ian<br>La Souvigne Corrèze<br>http:www.souvigne.com]

Hi Catalpa,

You asked:-

If guests are feeling semi-sociable, would you be offended (or relieved?!) if they made clear that they were happy to eat solo but would be delighted if you'd join them for coffee, or coffee and pudding course maybe? I'm thinking here if these were the only guests eating in as opposed to, say, several independent couples. And yes, I am thinking in terms of our own preferred style of holidaying!

I'm afraid that's not an option as far as we personally are concerned. Our view is that the only thing that justifies our extremely privileged position in terms of "Taxe professionnel" (which hoteliers and restaurateurs pay, and we don't) and in terms of inspections (they get inspected regularly, we don't) etc and so forth, is that our guests share our own evening meal.

Equally, the legal definition of Tables d'Hôte says this too, so not only do we feel morally bound to eat with our clients, but legally obliged to do so too.

So it's not a question of being offended, but a question of what is and what isn't a Table d'Hôte. Sorry to sound so absolutist about this, but I do sympathise with hoteliers and restaurateurs who feel that some of our colleagues are indulging in some very unfair competition.

[Miki]

Sorry Ian but I think the last paragraph is slightly OTT. Although I do feel some sympathy for the hoteliers and restos, (I have friends in both trades and know just how much they have to pay out in comparison to us here, as we have been there and done that ourselves here in France) one surely cannot believe that an owner not sitting with their guests 100% of the time makes the slightest difference to adding to unfair competition ? Or is that out of context?

Try cooking and waiting on up to 15 people for long periods and see if you or your dear lady wife wil fancy running in and out of the kitchen all night long and still feel morally or legally alllowed to sit with your guests every single night. GDF know only too well that we will always try to sit with guests but I'm damned if I will sit with obnoxious guests who simply want to belittle the British or try to question everything one says etc etc. If by body language or simply asking, they make it plain that they want to be alone then it is far ruder to insist on sitting with them than fulfilling their wishes, surely.

If we stuck by every single rule or regulation (and I have yet to meet this person !) what would we do if were to run out of "home made jams" "local produce" and "experience local traditional food" all things and more are expressed in their brochures and guide books and half the people I know, do no such thing.

How do they expect every single B&B to make their own jam !! Yes, I know it's not a regulation but they claim that "you will enjoy copious breakfasts of (among other things) home made jam etc etc " We run out very early in the seaon but buy good quality Jams from the wholesaler (and personally I love it more but don't tell the other half !

For instance, last night 8 guests and us sat down for a good old "British Indian Curry" very spicy and nothing like the way the French are given "curry" here for the most part, (too mild here and for kids tastes!!)nothing local or traditional there but by golly, we didn't even have to wash the plates afterwards !!

OK tongue in cheek there but the point overall is, we must make our guests welcome and THEN for the greater part, play it by ear. If you play it exactly by the book, you will spend hours explaining why you can't do this and can't do that.

Far fetched ? I don't think so, how many think we are nothing more than mini hotels ? How many are first time visitors to a chambres d'hôtes ? We are supposedly 50 years young this year but let's be honest here, I would say most French still think they are a pretty new thing, many Brits still don't know about them and for me, 20 years is about as long as I can really recall knowing much about them.

Yes, we have to act more like a chambre d'hôte by running by the book but for us, we still act like mini hoteliers, old habits maybe but we know what works and what doesn't, for us only perhaps.

I suspect we would all love to experience each others chambre d'hôtes and would enjoy how the others work at their business, we are all different and long may it be so.

[Quillan]

I agree with Miki.

We don't always sit with our guests because sometimes you just get that feeling that they prefer to be on their own. We get couples who are 'well loved up' and want a nice romantic candlelight dinner on the terrace which we are more than happy to supply. We have also had a house full of Germans or Spanish where us being there is pointless as we don't understand a word of what they are saying.

Other times we eat with the guest and have a wonderful dinner with stimulating conversation and  a good laugh, in a way it's an embarrassment to charge them as the evening has been so good.

[mascamps.com]

I definitely recommend Miki's suggestion of exchange visits and if a Frenchman hadn't thought of it long before me I'd have been trying to talk the lot of you into doing something along the same lines. As it is, we have Innkeepers Exchange at http://www.innkeepers-exchange.com/index-an.htm which looks like a fantastic thing to get in on. In spite of comments re the hotel/B&B difference Innkeepers Exchange encompasses the heap: "Bed and Breakfast, Guest Ranch, Country Inn, Guesthouse, Farmstay, Pension, Country Resort, Chambres et tables d'hôtes, Gîtes d'étapes et de séjours, Inns, Hotels".

We've not yet participated in it at the international level but have quite frequent contact with a couple of other auberges which has benefited us enormously by seeing the differences in their approach to things. Lots of thanks too to Miki for sharing the benefit of his experience at this game on and via e-mail.

I also think that the guests really appreciate the differences. CdH is all about being in someone's home and they are bound to be different. Do your kids even eat with you all the time? I know that some are run by "retired" professional chefs and clearly that's going to make a substantial difference to the dining experience. We all bring things from our previous lives to our present occupations and it all goes to make each CdH that little bit different from all the others.

 

Arnold

[Miki]

Chris said "...Other times we eat with the guest and have a wonderful dinner with stimulating conversation and a good laugh, in a way it's an embarrassment to charge them as the evening has been so good."

Never be so embarrassed as to taking money or no one will stay with anyone else and head for your gaff !! I'll make you laugh Chris, if a "freebie" is in it

Had a few old friends over a couple of weeks ago, who were on their way to the south and Spain, after the meal we lads got on about Chelsea and the laughter and tears etc we have done together at the Bridge over many years.

The wives simply said "here we go again" and went off to another room for "girlies" talk. See, no pleasing some people is there

[Ian Hoare<br>All the best<br>Ian<br>La Souvigne Corrèze<br>http:www.souvigne.com]

Hi Miki & Chris,

Eating with the guests.

Yes, we do it every single time. It's the name of the game. Not always both of us 100% of the time, as it's not possible, as either one or other of us, depending upon whose responsibility the cooking/finishing/dishing if the next course is may have to leave for a few moments, but otherwise both of us all the time.

 And yes, I've had boors of all nationalities. I've had french guests who seek to use me as a whipping boy too, usually about british cooking. I'm afraid they get as good as they give. They're at MY table, and they should expect to behave as civilised guests. I'll usually ask them nicely not to behave like that. As an ex freelance chef in the UK specialising in French haute cuisine food, I know FAR more about their cuisine than they do. After a couple of good humoured shots across the bows, they usually decide it's easier to find another target! Grin!

And Chris - if they want a dîner intime à deux, they should go to the local restaurant. I know I'm in a near minority of one, but to me it's of the essence of Table d'Hôte and part of the cutting edge of that which makes the difference.

Miki - Jams. It's not on all squares at all IMO, its not part of the charte, nor a legal definition. To be frank, I can't remember what claims we make, but claims or no, I make all our jams and the only jams we ever serve that I haven't made, are when I am "unloading" a jam made by someone else and brought as a present, as neither Jacquie nor I eat them. That said, if I ran out of sufficient variety (it's never happened in 10 years)  -we always have 6 different varieties on offer - I'd have little hesitation in buying some in, but I'd buy it from one of the local producer/artisans. However, I'd almost certainly tell the clients.

As far as the type of cuisine is concerned, GdF can say what they like about "local cuisine" it's neither part of the charte, nor part of the law. I cook MY kind of food, and my publicity says quite explicitly that they may well get food from all over the world. That said I tend to serve French food to the English, who don't normally come to France to eat Chicken Tikka Masala, no matter how much they may like it! But when I'm serving old French clients who I know well enough to know that they really can eat properly spiced indian food, then I'll have no hesitation in doing so. The other day, for 8 we had an American soup, a Mexican starter, an Italian main course, french cheeses and an English dessert. Why ever not? (Cajun 15 bean soup; Guacamole; Lasagne al Forno & salad; Cantal, Bleu des Causses & St Nectaire; Plumes Marmalade tart). They all fell into them and asked for the recipes.

I'm sorry if sound priggish here. It's not at all my intention, nor would I dream of telling others what they should or shouldn't do - except in so far as advising my colleagues to stay strictly within the letter of the Table d'Hôte rules, so that we can justify our privileged position. 

One reason we won't do meals every night is because of the amount of work involved. Believe me, there's enough work involved in cooking for 8 - which is all we can take (thank heavens!) for me to know that there's no WAY I'm going to do it every night. But IMO that's the only way in which we can stick to the rules and not become totally exhausted.

[Miki]

Ian,

I bow to your extreme staying power to eat with guests every meal. I would have gone doo lally by now, for sure !!

Ian said “…..That said I tend to serve French food to the English, who don't normally come to France to eat Chicken Tikka Masala, no matter how much they may like it! But when I'm serving......”

You say they are at MY table and fair enough, so British guests could have a curry because they are at YOUR table then and so it doesn’t matter where they come from really.

Oh I agree, the French are so boringly traditional in their attitude to how they are the best cooks in the world, like heck they are. Another myth they like to boost up or is it as they say in Belgium “French cooking is the best, when cooked by a Belgian ”

Ian said .....”And Chris - if they want a dîner intime à deux, they should go to the local restaurant. ……. and part of the cutting edge of that which makes the difference.”

Cutting edge Ian ! Blige me, I am not sure about that phrase in respect of what you are talking about !

The point I was trying to make about jams, local produce etc,was, of course it is not in their charter but they wax lyrically in their publicity about what guests can expect and that, I and others find, is absolutely stupid. You tell anyone what they can expect and when they don’t get it, you are wide open to pathetic complaints from sad people with nothing better to do than find something to complain about.

As I said in an earlier post, next month in the 22/35 region, there is a seminar to discuss how to deal with the new wave of complaints that are now surfacing. It is my opinion that GDF have been the main culprit in this new occurrence.

All this talk about what to expect, what the place will be like etc etc just adds unnecessary pressures on the member. The only part in our favour is where it states to guests that they must remember they are in someone’s house and respect that.

Another point which will have to be raised in time, is the fact that guests can cancel at just under a days notice and not be liable for payment. That’s fine, if in high summer as we deal with 8-10 other CDH’s and can normally rely on filling the room but other times when we have turned away clients for say, a “three day pont break” and then one decides to leave after one day using some awful excuse that no one believes (boss called, they have to go back etc, people tried that last year and when we said too late to not pay, incredibly, the boss had second thoughts and they stayed!) as long as they give the short statuary notice, they can leave without paying or indeed not even arrive!

Ian said “….except in so far as advising my colleagues to stay strictly within the letter of the Table d'Hôte rules, so that WE can justify our privileged position”

Thank you for advising me but we stay within the fair letter of the law, it might say we MUST eat with guest but that does not mean we must be forced to eat every single course and every single night for gawds sake. Our only local friendly “rival” as far as table’hôte is concerned, rarely, if ever eats with his guests in summer. He is a trained ex chef from Paris whose food is wonderful. He tells us that he cannot eat with guests as his old training of being in the kitchen then coming out at the end of the night is too engrained and that is how he likes it. If GDF don’t like that and insist, then they will lose yet another TDH, which they can barely afford to in these parts, as they are disappearing faster than ever before.

As I said before, I really do not see that restos are worried if we sit them or not, our privileged position as you call it, will not depend on that in the future. To my mind it will depend on whose will is the greatest, GDF or the Hotel Associations if table d’hôe is to carry on in its present formula.

Ian said “But IMO that's the only way in which we can stick to the rules and not become totally exhausted….”

Very clever indeed is the man who NEVER broke any rules Ian, and in my fifty odd years, that person has yet to materialise apart from in their own head !

[Cerise]

We do eat with our guests on the nights they eat in - but that's mainly because I can't be bothered to make something separate for us.  However, I see no point - whatever the rules - of forcing guests to eat things they don't want and I fully confess to asking guests what they would like, if we only have one couple here.  This really started because I was knocking myself out making 4 course dinners and a dear Liverpudlian lady asked if they could just have sausage and chips as they weren't that keen on 'fancy food'.

So rules now are, if we have several lots of guests who want to eat in or obviously looking for 4 course dinner - then that's what I do.  If only one party then I ask the question - I find that particularly house hunters, or other people who are here out of season, but not on holiday, do not necessarily want to eat 4 course dinners every night and enjoy - even prefer - chili, spaghetti bolognese or whatever.  The restaurants in this area are all a bit sameish - very nice but there is only so much duck you feel like eating.  I'm not doing restaurants etc out of business as out of season it's often hard to find somewhere open.  The locals eat at lunchtime and many restaurants here only open evenings at weekends.

Our French clientele are more traditional and they nearly always want the full works.  However, split is about 40% French, 60% other (mostly English) but the majority of our French guests are in the summer months.  Certainly, round here the idea of weekend breaks has not caught on much, so out of season I am mostly catering for the English.

Like Ian I do make jam, but would not have a guilt trip if I had to buy some.  I agree with Miki that some of the requirements seem a bit pressurising and to be honest when I have stayed in one or two French chambres d'hotes I have had not only bought jam but the dreaded nasty little packets.  Our French customers always remark how nice our breakfasts are and are surprised that they get things like local yoghurt, fresh fruit salad etc.  Most of them tell me they have stayed in other chambres d'hotes so I guess not everyone is adhering to charters.

Providing people provide clean, comfortable accommodation and their customers are happy, I think it is a good thing we are all different - surely that is the charm of chambres d'hotes - otherwise you may as well be in a chain hotel.

 

Maggi