At what stage will I get the bottle.....

[Coco]

...... to turn away the one-nighters?

During our first year we were pleased to get any bookings at all and many enquired as to whether we would take them for just one night as a lot of B&Bs have policies against this.  We didn't start until the end of June that year, so none of our bookings were that much in advance.

Last year I took bookings from quite a lot of one-nighters  early on in the year, on their way to Britanny or the south during July and August, and found that closer to the dates I lost out on better 3 or 4 night bookings because there was a one-nighter slap bang in the middle of the chosen dates.

This year, during the winter, I said I wouldn't take them so far in advance.  But when it came to it I lost my bottle and took any booking that came along, on a first come first served basis.  Last night was a classic case where a French guy contacted me requesting a Saturday to Saturday one week booking for the family suite, for any of the weeks in August.  One week is completely full but on the other 3 weeks I have just one or 2 nights booked and therefore can't offer him a single week throughout the whole month, just because of 3 or 4 other nights booked.  This has happened about half a dozen times in the last month or so.

I decided last night that next year I won't accept the one-nighters for July and August until at least the middle of May.  But then, I said that last year too!!

Does anyone else have this policy of no one-nighters, and if so, how long did it take you to have the courage to enforce it and turn bookings away whilst you were still empty?

Hopefully next year we will have an extra room, so it wouldn't occur so much anyway.

[Miki]

It really is down to the individual B&B.

Many factors play a part. If the season turns "belly up" perhaps the weather or change of holiday habits etc, you will be glad of one nighters but if all goes pretty much as normal, one regrets one nighters geting in the way. Many folks go on the old adage of a bird in the hand, some, more brave than others perhaps, hold out in the hope of long stayers.

We have friends who use a few other B&B's who do not advertise too much and who just take whatever comes along. If our friends have a one nighter in the way of a good stay, they simply transfer that person(s) on to the other people, opening the room to the longer stayers. Moral or not, that is what they and some others we know do to counter that "problem" !

We do have more rooms as you know but don't ever think more rooms make it easier, if anything it can often multiply the problem. We do not intentionally take one nighters from early July until early September but we do take them as gaps will always need to be filled, it is impossible (well for us anyway) to be able to fill the place with plus 3 nighters, it simply does not addd up ! there are always spaces in between the 3-7 day guests (or whatever length).

We also have friends back in the Doo Don who doubled the prices of their gites and rooms when they put the pool in, purely on the logic, that they would rather be full for the peak months, than get the same money for staying open a lot longer but for the same returns !!

I think it really does come down to how you personally see your place, what happens when you refuse the one nighters and no longer stays want to stay during that period ?

Ah I hear you say but then what will you do if you take the one nighters and people want long stays !

Well, if I spoke as someone without an interest, I could easily say, don't take one nighters but as someone who knows you are in the Bed and Breakfast trade as a business enterprise, the thing I should say is take what you can......

In other words business is business but who knows what is best ? and the answer I believe, is that for any personal business is that in the end, you do.

[Ian Hoare<br>All the best<br>Ian<br>La Souvigne Corrèze<br>http:www.souvigne.com]

Hi Coco,

For the moment, we take the view that we really should take one night stands. I don't know whether we would if we "only" had one room. Our particular bête noir is one night wedding bookings. They ALWAYS want to book all our rooms - well in advance. Then they cancel one or two at the last minute, and they always want to arrive in the morning (how the flip are we to do three rooms by 11 am when the previous guests left at 10?) They want to come back with a skinful at all hours, have a late breakfast and then not leave till lunchtime. GRRR.

To come back to your query. In very many cases, we find that taking someone for one night once, because they are de passage elsewhere, leads to a three/6 night booking in a year or two's time. We also feel that we _should_ take our share of one nighters - rather than try to cream off the best and easiest.

But I think a lot depends upon where you are and how many rooms you have. We've talked about it from time to time, because it's true that you have to work a devil of a lot harder for a one night stand than for a week!!

[Toucan]

Coco, Id be more than happy to take any extra bookings, one night or more, that you cant fit in. We are not far from you, near Vire.

Jane

[Tony KayIts only spilt milk, the cat will have it.....]

I have to say that I understand your dilemma. It's also happening more and more in the UK.

But as a 'punter' I have to admit that I find it all rather disappointing that B&B's are refusing one night stays. I know you have a business to run, and want to make as much return for your efforts as possible. but, whatever happened to the providing of a service? this seems to be going out of the window.

I will need several one night stays when I visit in July as we want to move around, I don't plan to stay for just one night to upset the owners, and I wouldn't expect to be turned away, just in case a more lucrative offer comes along.

I worry that some B&b owners (not aimed at anyone here) are starting to think that they are doing paying customers a favour by alowing them to sleep on the premises and charging for the privelege.

Either way, it's your business, and you must do what's right for you I guess.

---

[Coco]

Thanks for everyone's comments.  I asked the question to see what others do but to be quite honest I don't think I would dare to turn down the one nighters for a very long time.

Ian:  You're right in what you say, several of our one-nighters have since come back for a long weekend the following year - you just never know what potential business you're turning away if you say no to someone!  And as for the wedding guests, we have a party of six arriving in July and I'm already preparing myself for the late nights, no shows for breakfast etc.  However, I am fortunate in that it's a Brit wedding happening here and everyone appears to be making a holiday of it, they are staying for five nights!!

Jane:  I'll bear you in mind, but I think it will be along time before I can afford to turn anyone away!

Tony:  I understand what you're saying.  I must admit, when I stayed in B&Bs I don't think I EVER stayed in one for more than one night.  It's not that we can't be bothered to make the effort (or at least on my part) it's the fact that by having the one-nighters in the middle of the summer it often prevents you from taking people who would have spent the whole of their holiday with you rather than one night en-route to someone else.  You have to bear in mind that although we are open all year round, potentially July/August is when we make probably 50% of our annual income, so to lose 7 nights for the sake of one is just bad business, it's not wanting to be greedy.

Another point about the one-nighters, which I have now (hopefully) overcome by taking deposits, is that because they are usually en-route somewhere else, their plans can often change at the last minute; they don't get as far as they thought they would, they liked last night's place so much they decide to stay an extra night, they get further than they thought they would, so decide to push on.  Any one of these reasons can make them cancel at the last minute and how galling is that when not only have you lost THAT booking, but you had already lost the 4, 5 or 6 nighter because of them in the first place!!

The whole question of one-nighters is to me a big issue.  I would never turn them away throughout the rest of the year, without them we would definitely fold, but WITH them in July and August I am losing so much potential business.

I understand Tony's comments as a "punter" about not expecting to be turned away "just in case" a better offer comes along, and I would hate to think that clients think I am doing them a favour.  But the plain fact is, that this is a business and not a public service - as much as the customer wants to feel that they have been given due respect and a fair deal, we too have to make a fair living from it.

I think I have answered my own question in that next year I think I will try and hold out until about March or April before taking bookings for one night in August.  But after that, a bird in the hand.... as they say.

[Cerise]

Maybe I am strange (what do you mean maybe??)but I do take one nighters as I actually think that is what B & B should do.  I am also a B & B user and we like to be able to stay for one night when we can get away.

I understand the frustration of maybe losing a longer booking but have found that people on their way through (of which we get quite a few) often either come back themselves for longer or recommend others.  I did toy with the idea of saying no in July and August, but this year bookings in this area are awful and I actually know of 2 B & B with no advance reservations.  If you all live in places where you can afford to be picky and are full all the time,then Good Luck but in slightly less touristy areas I'm not sure it is a good idea to turn away any potential trade.

That said, we do try to encourage longer stays by offering a discount for 3 nights as, apart from the possible loss of longer stays, the one-nighters definitely entail more work.

Maggi

[mascamps.com]

What I've noticed lately is that a few places are starting to add a "one night" supplement. I suspect that it probably looks better to offer a discount for longer stays but the overall effect is the same. It also reflects the fact that two one-night stays cost more than one two-night stays as you've to remake the room etc. At a guess the extra cost is probably around the 5€ mark for us. I do take the point about a lot of people (including us) tour around and therefore may only want one night and, of course, with stays of 3 nights or more you'd always have gaps anyway but the question then is: do you set your prices at the 1-night level (ie with the added 5€) or, say, at the 5-night level (ie with 1€ a night costs)?

Incidently, we've recently started to get an even more awkward variety of booking. Just received our latest for the coming weekend (they've all been weekenders so far) who booked Saturday but said that she'd be here at 5AM!! to check into her room. Even after quite an extended chat on the phone I still don't think that she's grasped the fact that she needs to book the night before too as otherwise we could have someone still in the room from the night before. They're all French and seem to be leaving work on Friday evening to drive some serious distance to get here resulting in the 5 or 6am arrival times. I think their theory is that they can get a whole weekend down here by booking just the Saturday night.

 

Arnold

 

[Tony KayIts only spilt milk, the cat will have it.....]

That's naughty, expecting to arrive at 5am yet not pay for that night? Damn cheek.

It just seems to me that the way forward is to offer discounts for 2 nights or more. Basic economics. If you can persuade 2 people to stay an extra night, you get more money, for a similar amount of work. But . . .what if your policy persuades a couple to stay for 3 nights instead of one, then you get a phone call from someone wanting a week starting on your current guests 3rd night? What then?

There's no easy answer. But you can make it easier on yourselves.  Take deposits for advance bookings. If the booking is for the peak period, take the money in full. Yes, in full, why not?

When did you last turn up for a flight and pay the balance at the airport? I wouldn't mind paying in full, in advance if I knew I was going to be there. If I thought I might 'stiff' the B&B with plan changes, then I'd be reluctant.  That's only a 'maybe' booking, I can wait for the next.

If word gets out that you can book a sat night, but turn up at 5am, expect to be busy I say. Tell them to bug ger off (in polite parlance of course)

And if you really don't want to lose that 7 nighter but you have a single night booked, deposit paid, slap bang in the middle, either farm it out or give YOUR room up. You do really want that lucrative weeks booking, right?

 

[mascamps.com]

Naughty and pretty stupid. They'd booked online and we only spoke to them at all because she wanted to confirm the type of room. Otherwise the first contact we'd have had would have been when the doorbell rang at 5am on Saturday and we'd to break it to them that the room was still occupied by the people from the day before. She said she was cancelling but doesn't seem to have so we don't know if they're coming or not now.

We already have had two separate one week bookings hitting August 20th when for one day we are totally full of one nighters for a wedding. OK, we're going to make a lot from the wedding but on the other hand that single day has now cost us two separate 300€ bookings which isn't small change, even compared to the income from the wedding.

You're always going to have problems of overlapping unless you only take one-nighters. Several times this year already we've had to juggle rooms around considerably to fit in someone. What we now do is to print off our calendar each Monday for the following two weeks and do the juggling at that point. What we're also doing is reducing the number of different types of room that we have which should reduce the amount of juggling considerably.

So far we've only once had to up sticks from our own rooms and it's a major, major hassle.The guests rooms are pretty empty, but have you ever looked at the volume of junk that's accumulated in your bedroom/study/whatever since you moved in? It took us a good week beforehand to get one room emptied and tidied up for guests last time we did that.

 

Arnold

 

[Russethouse]

Are you more likely to sell evening meals to one nighters ? If someone stays a week, on average how many times do they eat with you and does it make a difference to the equation ?

[Miki]

Tony said ".....It just seems to me that the way forward is to offer discounts for 2 nights or more. Basic economics."

That would not work for us I am afraid. The road to ruin can often be discounting, the next B&B takes it lower then the one up the road even lower !

We stand on what we offer. We work hard, as many who do table d'hôtes do, I do not fancy giving a night free but if others wish to, then that is their business. We simply do not want extra business and it is doubtful anyway, whether we would get a lot more bookings for discounting

Tony said "....If you can persuade 2 people to stay an extra night, you get more money, for a similar amount of work. But . . .what if your policy persuades a couple to stay for 3 nights instead of one, then you get a phone call from someone wanting a week starting on your current guests 3rd night? What then?"

It is not about "persuading" most of the time, all the one nighters we get, want one night. Those that want 3 nights ask for 3 nights and so on. And as I said, we do not want to "persuade" people to stay 3 nights for the price of 2. We have been known to give free meals and wine for longer stays though.

Tony "....There's no easy answer. But you can make it easier on yourselves. Take deposits for advance bookings. If the booking is for the peak period, take the money in full. Yes, in full, why not?"

Why not indeed, that is exactly what we do and is completely allowed with GdF. All one night people from all countries pay in advance with us. If they stay 2 nights they pay for at least one night, for 3 or more, it is 25% deposit.

Tony "...If word gets out that you can book a sat night, but turn up at 5am, expect to be busy I say. Tell them to bug ger off (in polite parlance of course)"

Never heard of such a thing ! No one passes through our door until 16h30 (many friends insist on 17h00). By the time the place is cleaned and spruced up, lunch taken, a little rest or some shopping to do, it can be 16h30. If weddings want to come in early, we play it by ear, if they say by 12h00, then we politely decline their one night booking but inform them that it might be best if they reserve for the night before as well ! If they say around 3'ish, then we will allow that but do insist that if they are not down for breakfast by the required time, then all is cleared away and "perhaps" a coffee will be available ! It sounds harsh perhaps but it really does have to be give and take. Some guests will take as many liberties as they can and I'm afraid that can firm you up and make you stick fairly rigidly to the neccessary house rules.

Tony "....And if you really don't want to lose that 7 nighter but you have a single night booked, deposit paid, slap bang in the middle, either farm it out or give YOUR room up. You do really want that lucrative weeks booking, right?"

Quite right Tony but TOH would never give up her room, come to think of it, nor would I !

[mascamps.com]

Yes, meals do affect the equation. In practical terms, most one-nighters that we get are drivebys and they almost always take a meal. We do get booked one-nighters too and I think (not sure) that they take meals about 1/3rd of the time. If someone is staying a week, a lot take one meal but a fair (and increasing) number take meals most nights with us. Overall then I guess that the meals don't really change the equation a whole lot although they do reduce that 5€ room setup cost to 5% rather than 10% of the room plus meal charge.

It's really very difficult to say if you get more or longer bookings with discounting. In reality people have a set amount of holiday time so if that happens to be 10 days then it really doesn't matter if you give them five free days for every ten booked because they can only use ten anyway. On the other hand if you say that a one nighter costs 5€ to reset the room vs that same 5€ spread over 5 nights then it's clear that it's better to have one five night stays than five one night stays. That's before you count the additional work entailed in attracting five times the number of people in that example which is not inconsiderable.

Anyway, taking those figures, you could offer people staying two nights a discount of 5€ at no cost to yourself, up to 20€ for a five night stay. The key thing in that is that you aren't really discounting the price in the sense that you get exactly the same amount of income after expenses from the five night stay with a 20€ discount as compared to the five one night stays at no discount. It's the same principle as things like your Tesco loyalty card - it's cheaper to keep a customer that you've already got then have to go out and get another one. Aside from the pure economics of the thing, it's obviously going to reduce the amount of work you need to do if you can increase the average stay even just a little bit.

On the one nighters front, we've one of them coming back this year but for a week this time. So if you do a good job it may pay off in the longer term. Did our 5% discount for repeat bookings make them do that? Who knows? On the other hand, the 5% discount is less than the 35€ that I'll save vs having seven one-nighters in their place so either way, I'm up money.

>Tony "...If word gets out that you can book a sat night, but turn up at 5am, expect to be busy I say. Tell them to bug ger off (in polite parlance of course)"

If my French was fully up to speed at 5am, it wouldn't be terribly polite!

>Quite right Tony but TOH would never give up her room, come to think of it, nor would I !

Indeed. However, it was OK by me to temporarily evict Wendy's Mum

 

Arnold

 

[Ian Hoare<br>All the best<br>Ian<br>La Souvigne Corrèze<br>http:www.souvigne.com]

Hi

trying to reply to all the points from memory.

5 am arrival. No way. I'll let people dump their luggage in the morning, but explain politely that rooms are never free before noon. My standard confirmation letter explains that our "guests usually arrive between 4pm and 6.30pm, if you intend to arrive earlier, please let us know so we can be sure to be there to welcome you" (Which is a polite way of saying "come between these hours") We can usually work things out with the rare ones who want to come outside these hours.

As for 1 nighters turning into longer, it happened this week. A couple phoned up at 6 pm for one night. No probs. We took them gladly. They then asked if they could stay on for two further nights. "A pleasure" said I, and it was. This happens more than one might think.

Arnold. GdF specifically forbids one night supplements. I agree with them. Your price _should_ be a one night price, though nothing stops you offering long stay discounts. Personally, with very low initial prices, I don't, except for Guide Routard, who have a promotion scheme, to which we belong. However, with very pleasant clients whom I like, if they stay a week or more, then I may very well "forget" to charge for one of their meals. This has always worked extremely well, with almost 100% of these coming back for future years.

As for the comments re one night stands being our business, I repeat that I too feel it's of the essence of our business. I don't much approve of people creaming off the best and most lucrative biz, but that's just me.

[Alan]

Tony "....And if you really don't want to lose that 7 nighter but you have a single night booked, deposit paid, slap bang in the middle, either farm it out or give YOUR room up. You do really want that lucrative weeks booking, right?"

Quite right Tony but TOH would never give up her room, come to think of it, nor would I !

 

We did that last year and its dammed hard work by the time you take everything out of your room, its like moving house.( at least when the wife says she needs more clothes I have a good argument for the against ) I never learn because I am doing it again this July as I took a one nighter from a family that stayed for 8 days with us last year and are travelling down to Spain slap bang in the middle of the week this year .Then along comes a family who needs two rooms for the week.

 

A lot of places round us state a minimum of 3 nights but we never have, at the end of the day a bird in the hand and all that

 

Alan

 

http://monsite.wanadoo.fr/Cauteret_GB/

[mascamps.com]

[quote]Hitrying to reply to all the points from memory.5 am arrival. No way. I'll let people dump their luggage in the morning, but explain politely that rooms are never free before noon. My standard confir...[/quote]

GdF specifically forbids one night supplements. I agree with them.

Wow. I'm in agreement with GdF!! Seriously though, from the perspective of a guest, it looks much better to have the potential of a discount than potential supplements even though they are two sides of the one coin.

We've started handing them a bottle of wine rather than an explicit discount which seems to come across better than the discounts did. It's also a nice little souvenir of their stay here and I think that it's always worthwhile having something to remind guests of their stay (says he optimistically assuming that everyone has had a great time here).

We're hoping that in the years to come we'll gradually build up the repeat business too. It's good to hear from someone who's been at this so long that little things like that do pay off. At the moment, I'm just hoping that we can live up to the memories of last years one-nighter when they're here for the week in August.

 

Arnold