how not to do B&B

[Lilly]

Just thought I would post my experiances this weekend to see what reactions I get, to see if my own expectations were so out of line.

We at short notice booked a Chambred'hote near Albi for 1 night for us and 2 children 11 & 14 boys, we had a bit of a discussion about the sleeping arrangements as I had asked for possibly a family room, it was explained this was possible, I had seen the costs on the web site of the room prices whilst higher than I really wanted this was the third I had phoned and the others were full,there were no indications of the cost for children but I "assumed" that it would be along the lines of 15euro per child or something like that. Well the bed was not made when we arrived at 7.30pm  and the linen given to me to make the bed, no great problem really but there was only the 1small canape bed for the 2 boys to sleep in again not the end of the world but the room was quite expensive and we had already descovered that it was badly done up  DIY gone mad and very small, the shower did'nt work and there was no opening windows in the bed room, it was a loft room above a garage. Pillows were 1 each and had seen fatter days and the bed cheap and hard, the top sheet was a duvet cover with no duvet ( too hot anyway), the ceilings had been covered in calico to cover the undersides of roof tiles and did'nt quite fit. the photos looked  ok  and just goes to show how they can hide many a fault, overall the room looked quite pretty but when you arrive and see it, " that'll do they won't see it" dose'nt cut the mustard I'm afraid.

Breakfast was seriously lacking the table was not laid at 9.15 in the morning and we had explained that we needed to leave reasonably promptly. Breakfast consisted of 2 slices of bread one type of jam and a cheap yogurt, and one cup of luke warm coffee the total bill for this was 140.00 including 50euro for the boys this made my toes curl up but we paid and left as confrontation is not my fortay and we were hoping to have a nice day out, this was the first break we have taken in 18 months of renovation including week ends as we have got a major project on. I know the base fault lies with me not confirming the price for the children and therefore rest my case. I write this for many a reason one being " How not to do B&B" and to see how you may charge in this instance,

I look forward to your imput.

[Just Katie]

Hi Lilly, 

That sounds very expensive to me in comparison to what I paid at a B&B about 45 mins south west of Albi.  For 100euro we too had a family room.  We had our own entrance from a beautiful courtyard with a pool.  The room or suite consisted of two separate rooms (one double and one twin), a wc and a shower room.  The interior design was superb.  Old terracotta tiles, cracked in places. Ocre washed walls and heavy wood antique furniture with white bed linen and mosquito nets.  The windows gave distant and uninterupted views of the Pyrenees.  Breakfast was taken through the courtyard and onto the terrace with the same views and consisted of the usual bakers croissants, jams and juices.  The property sat on the edge of a small town with all amenities.

I say your hotel sounds expensive, it maybe that I hit lucky and mine was very cheap. 

You say you did not complain.  I think in the circumstances of looking forward to a nice day out you was correct.  Is it worth giving yourself a headache for maybe a 10 euro refund for the inconvenience of making your own bed and waiting for your breakfast?

I hope the remainder of the weekend went well for you.

[Cerise]

Hi Lilly

I understand why you did not complain as it would only have spolit the weekend - but pity you didn't as this seems expensive and a bit nasty.  We are 40 NE of Albi (so roughly same area) and we charge 90 euros for 4 in our family suite which consists of 2 large rooms on their own floor with a bathroom between.  The parents room has a sitting area with armchairs and coffee table, readling lamp etc and the childrens room has room for a 3rd bed or a cot if necessary and a table and chairs . 2 pillows on each bed and nice bedding.  Substantial breakfast with fresh croissants, fruit etc. and tea and coffee making facilities in the rooms.

Maybe you should send the owners an e-mail telling them what you feel - if no-one ever complains they may think that what they are doing is OK.  Hope you enjoyed the rest of your weekend.

Maggi

 

 

[Quillan]

The rules of Chambres D'Hôtes (B&B) regardless of if they are a member of any offical French organisation (Gite de France or Clévacances) are quite plain in certain areas. Firstly the prices MUST be posted outside the place and copy must be displayed in each room. ALL beds must be made before the room is let. Were you actually given a proper bill or just told how much it was? I would also love to know what nationality they were if only to nosey.

I am very sorry that you have recieved such bad service and can assure you that not all B&B's are like this. I hope it did not wreck your whole weekend.

[Lilly]

Thank you for your kind replys and pm's. In answer to your question Quillan, I was given the room price on the telephone which increased by 10 euro according to the plaque in the bedroomno mention of children in room prices, there was no board outside the building and I didn't ask how much extra it would cost for the boys but that worked out to be an extra 50euro on top of the room price. I belive their nationality to be French and German and young but not local to the area they were in by their accents, they were indeed pleasant enough and I think fairly new at Chambre d'hote. I did get a proper bill which only divided the overall room price and the tax de sejour.

Please rest assured I know very well that this is not indicative of most chambre d'hotes  its just a long time since I've used one and I wasn't sure about what costs children in room rates were levied .

I found them by looking for chambre d'hotes near cordes sur ciel / Albi and it was quite difficult to locate some in this area the same ones came up.The first couple that I tried were full, so impatience ruled and time was pressing before we left to drive down.

We went to the French open moto championships in Albi , flippin hot but it made a change of scenery and well I'll just put this down to experiance and scrutinise the ceilings in future!!

[Coco]

 I can only reiterate what others have said above.  Our family suite consists of a double and twin room, sharing a shower room/WC.  We charge 90 for occupancy with one child, 95 for two and 100 for three.  We have a double room that can accommodate a campbed and for that we charge an extra 15 euros for one child (couldn't take more than one in that room).  How can they not have made the bed up by that time in the evening!!!

We once stayed in a "beautiful" B&B in northern Burgundy.  The house and courtyard were so pretty and the room very nice but we booked dinner and were told that it would be served at 7pm  so rushed back in time but Madame didn't appear til 7.45. She then hurriedly served the starter, then the main,  then just left us with the cheeseboard and desserts.  She left 2 bottles of wine between ten of us and disappeared for the night.  She told us all that breakfast would be at 8am - no choice in the matter - but when we all appeared at 8am the place was deserted and no tables laid up.  She eventually appeared, in her dressing gown, at 8.30, no apologies at all, just asked if we would like to have a tasting with a view to buying some of her wine to take away with us.  We all had to stiffle grins because we'd already "tried" all the wine that the German guests had raided from the kitchen the night before.  I know if was naughty but none of us felt in the slightest guilty as we all felt it was our way of getting our "refunds" for the terrible meal and service we had received!!!  

I must say though, we had a great night without and no thanks to her.  Four Germans, two Brits, two Belgians and two from Luxembourg![:D]

[mascamps.com]

It's best never to assume what the prices are for kids as there's such a variation. I've seen anything from free to full adult price myself.

 

Arnold

 

[Cassis]

If a child occupies a bed and you expect said child to be fed then I think in general you should expect to pay for the dear child.  This should be clear at the time of booking. 

[mascamps.com]

Maybe, but it's often far from clear in many cases what, if any, charge is applied to children and for that matter what age counts as a child. Not just in B&B either - we have a local museum which is free for children to age 7, half price to age 16 and full price after that which we only found out recently as they don't seem to state that anywhere.

But anything involving meals is even more complicated. I've seen "children stay free", "children eat free" and "children free" amongst others. All of these can cause complications.

For instance, we say something to the effect that we don't charge for children staying in their parents' room. However, we charge about half price for their breakfast from 2-12 which has caused some "debate" with guests who expected it free. Also, we've had problems with people booking a double room and arriving with a lot of children which they simply didn't mention when booking (we do ask for everyone staying to be listed). Now if they've booked a double and told us that they've two children, then we'll allocate them the little suite at the same price as the double but we've only one so we need to know well in advance. The most extreme case was one family who booked our smallest room for which we very clearly state that it cannot accommodate more than two people whether they are adults or children; they arrived with two adults and five children (from age 6/7 to about 14) then asked us to put extra beds in the room and were less than pleased to have to take two higher priced rooms to fit everyone in.

 

Arnold

 

[Cassis]

[quote user="mascamps.com"]

But anything involving meals is even more complicated. I've seen "children stay free", "children eat free" and "children free" amongst others. All of these can cause complications.

[/quote]

Not half!  Why does  anyone do that?  Are they running a children's charity rather than a business?  You still have to change the bedding and feed them so I don't see why anyone would offer/expect that for nothing.

[Iceni]

Free = someone else pays.

John

not

[mascamps.com]

IBIS/Novotel do "children stay free" which means that children (up to 12) don't pay extra for accommodation. Their thinking is that they attract the couples anyway so being family friendly should pull in even more people. I assume that overall they make money on it.

Can't remember who does it, but at least one hotel chain does "children eat free" which I think also means no additional charge for accommodation.

I've seen several B&Bs on my listings that offer similar deals so I assume that at least the "children stay free" is quite common. The "children eat free" is much rarer.

And, as John says, free means slightly higher charges for those without children to cover the additional costs.

The big downside that we've found from our "children stay free" policy is that we quite commonly get people not counting the children when they book a room. So far, we've managed to accommodate all the people that arrived by juggling rooms around but the double room booking that failed to mention their 5 kids came pretty close to sleeping on the street that night. The other downside of a family friendly policy is that some people are none too keen on the noise of children playing in the garden so you need to keep families and those with no kids in separate parts of the building to try and keep everyone happy.

 

Arnold

 

[Cassis]

I personally don't like the idea of couples without children subsidising those with children.  But each to their own.

[mascamps.com]

Ah, but it doesn't work quite like that in practice.

I've not made an indepth study of but just skimming around sites over the last few years I get the impression that those which operate "no kids" policies tend, on the whole, to be more expensive than those which are calling themselves "family friendly". Hard to say but my guess is that the greater number of customers that the family friendly places get tends to reduce the overall costs more than the notional extra costs incurred for the kids.

 

Arnold

 

[Miki]

Kids free in a  B&B !!!!!!!!!! Eek, sorry that kind of reeks to me of sheer panic in being desperate for bookings.

Don't get me wrong, nothing wrong in offering free places in the World wide tourist trade but who wants

to give kids a free bed in a little CdH ? If one has a family suite and says it is say

90 euros for the family, would it be financially right to have it as 90

euros for a couple as well ? Or should one call it 60 euros for a

couple with kids free.

Sorry but offering free places is a big NO, even babies get charged

here, we still have to wash all the bedding and all the probs that can

sometimes be associated with them being here. I fail to see why peoples

kids should get free places. Adult or kid, they all eat, wash, go to

the toilet and generally take up bed places and at the end of the day, they are not our kids, so why should they stay buckshee !

As for eating free, someones having a larf ain't they ! 

As ever, I think some are talking B&B and some hotel. How one can pretend

to be the  Hotel Butlins with just a few bedrooms, it can only mean

pin money required. It is one thing a large hotel or group spinning out

those kind of promos but the number of B&Bs I see trying to copy

the big boys, is totally and financially stupid. Anyone

serious in the B&B trade cannot afford to do so. To price high in

B&B's for couples and then allow free kids is just madness. I have

rarely seen it offered by serious French Chambres D'Hôtes (that is

those running such as a business) but I have seen Brits offering it, in

English in mags and Internet and can only guess that the British market

is fairly tight and so, if one does not work well with the

French, then they need to try and keep one ahead of their fellow

compatriots perhaps ?

[Cassis]

We don't operate a "no kids" policy and our place is family friendly (that does not mean we tolerate parents who allow their children to run about the house screaming!) with garden games, children's books, high chair, changing mats etc. but we do charge for every bed occupied and breakfast eaten.  The only children we don't charge for are babies/infants who sleep in a cot in their parents' room and don't eat breakfast as the parents have their own baby food.  This doesn't seem to put anyone off booking and it's never been queried, so I don't think we are losing business through this policy.

[mascamps.com]

You'd be surprised at how common "kids stay free" is the case in B&Bs here Miki. I reckon 10-20% of those on my listing sites offer it. I think, to some extent, it is a case of people having looked at what some hotel chains offer as you say but several places have been quite adamant that they are actively aiming for families and therefore felt that they should have such a policy in place. One place even gave off to me when I suggested that they'd be as well to put a limit on the number of kids staying in a room.

That's not to say that the kids will eat free, of course. In practical terms, up to about 2 years old generally would be on baby food of some kind so therefore there's no additional cost for the food. My impression is that over 2 the norm is half price for breakfast for B&B places which, in practical terms, would mean that each child is "costing" about 1€ per night in terms of the breakfast. I've seen some places offering the evening meals at reduced prices for children (which seems fair enough if you're counting 2-12-ish as children and serving smaller portions).

 

Arnold

 

[Miki]

Well all I can say to that is bravo to them. Not a chance in hell

here, we are in business, this is our living. I stand by what I said as

to how I have all too often seen the reason for why Brits offer free

places. As I said, check out French CdH's and see just how few offer

such a thing.

A child will use as much water, will use bedding, which needs

washing and ironing and if people think, that with from 2-5 bedrooms

they can let kids stay absolutely free, (that is staying at the normal

price charged for 2 adults) then I personally see it as awful business

practice, pin money or desperation for guests.

[quote] I've seen some places offering the evening meals at reduced prices for

children (which seems fair enough if you're counting 2-12-ish as

children and serving smaller portions).[/quote]

As for that, shock horror, some places???? ............................. I have never

seen it any other way, of course everywhere, including B&B's offers kiddies meals at

lower prices. Never been any different.

[quote] You'd

be surprised at how common "kids stay free" is the case in B&Bs

here Miki. I reckon 10-20% of those on my listing sites offer it

[/quote]

Firstly, I would be shocked to be honest by that statement being true. You say B&B's here,

therefore France, well I have a book, nearly 2000 pages long, that is

the bible of CdH's in France. I will say that on years of perusing

through it, I rarely see any free childrens places written in it.

Baby's can be seen for free on occasions, unless a cot is supplied,

then the majority of times, a supplement is justifiably added.

I have just had a good look at the BB's on your site and going 

in alpahabetical order, I got fed up looking  after the Poitou

Charentes, as I had only found one who offered kids free under 3 and

another free under 6 but even that was not on their actual site as

such, well not that I could find anyway.

So to me, it appears a figure of 20% is absolutely miles out and 10%

still appears to being somewhat very economical with the facts. If more

are offering it, then it is well hidden on their websites or on your

site.

[Cassis]

I have a confession, Miki.  We do offer free bread and croissants (leftovers from breakfasts) for children to feed the ducks and chickens. 

Jude says the only way children will ever be staying free is if they bring their own towels, bedlinen and food and help her clean the rooms. 

[mascamps.com]

Seems like a lot to me Miki though perhaps that's though it being mainly the new folk coming onto the site or whatever; I've not made a study of it or anything.

There are certainly a number who are quite adamant about it though as they've severely told me off about even suggesting that it might be a good idea to set an upper limit on the number of kids. As I say, they see one of their primary markets as being families and presumably feel pushed to match the "kids go free" type offers that you see everywhere else.

You are quite right in saying that it may not necessarily be economic too. Certainly once some people see that word "free", all common sense goes out the window. Whilst the family of two adults and five children booking our smallest double room was the extreme case, I've seen many instances of two adults plus two or three kids trying it too. That's why we ended up revising what "kids stay free" actually means in our own case to try and inject some sanity into the minds of potential guests but I expect that we'll still get some folk trying to squeeze a gallon into our pint pot during August.

On the other side of the coin we've also had people changing voluntarily from one double room for 2 ad + 4 kids to two triples (which we charge at our double room rate 'cos the extra bed is for a child). This situation is about equally common as the "pile em in" situation although the chaos that the "pile em in" brigade causes makes them stick out a lot more.

 

Arnold

 

[Miki]

So from this :

[quote]You'd

be surprised at how common "kids stay free" is the case in B&Bs

here Miki. I reckon 10-20% of those on my listing sites offer it[/quote]

To this :

[quote] Seems like a lot to me Miki though perhaps that's though it being

mainly the new folk coming onto the site or whatever; I've not made a

study of it or anything [/quote]

Even stabbing my toes with sharp javelins can't make me think why the

first quote does not match the 2nd but still...................

[quote]On the other side of the coin we've also had people changing

voluntarily from one double room for 2 ad + 4 kids to two triples

(which we charge at our double room rate 'cos the extra bed is for a

child). This situation is about equally common as the "pile em in"

situation although the chaos that the "pile em in" brigade causes makes

them stick out a lot more.[/quote]

Can't see how that can happen, unless you still have spare rooms in the peak period, which many of us would not have.

Cassis, we let the kids feed the birds (haven't got ducks and next

doors cows just turn their eyelashes up at bread !) and we only charge

a euro a handful. Well they are only kids. We were grimacing at lunch

today with another B&B couple, thinking of all the things kids can

get up to, if they did it for free, I reckon I would be in a mad house

by now  [;-)]

[mascamps.com]

As I say, I've not done a study as you did. However, it is around 10-20% of the recent entries onto the sites as far as I can remember.

Whether that's a representative sample, I don't know because I don't have the free time that you obviously have.

"Can't see how that can happen, unless you still have spare rooms in the peak period, which many of us would not have."

Some people do book a good deal in advance as you know. Many of those are the sensible ones with children who recognise that it might be quite difficult to get booked in if they get too close to the peak periods. For example, one large extended family group booked getting on for six months in advance and almost filled us up in one go. We've been turning away the less sensible with children in large numbers over the last month or so as I suspect are many others.

If they happen to turn up with a booking quoting two adults and arrive with that plus five kids as happened in our first year, they won't get in this year but we were able to squeeze them in during our first year.

Arnold

 

[Miki]

[quote]

As I say, I've not done a study as you did. However, it is

around 10-20% of the recent entries onto the sites as far as I can

remember.

Whether that's a representative sample, I don't know because I don't have the free time that you obviously have.[/quote]

Strange then, how you come out with an up to 20% figure really, not having the time and all that.

That takes some front. I often have to be on the computer and not

just for the B&B, so I thought to myself after reading your post,

well I can't see that after many years doing this business that your

site would buck the trend and be an up to 20% free kids site. Your

words, your stated facts and now, the climb down and an insult thrown

in to boot about what I do with my time. 

Please, don't throw false figures out and then move the goalposts to

try and then see if your figures might be better if stated in a

different manner as in "However, it is around 10-20% of the recent entries onto the sites as far as I can remember" Strange

how so very recently, it is now the trend to offer free places in a

French B&B but wasn't the last time I looked and as I said, the

2000 page book I have will show very few free kids places. !!

I believe your place is up for sale, good luck for the future.

[Coco]

[quote user="mascamps.com"]

That's not to say that the kids will eat free, of course. In practical terms, up to about 2 years old generally would be on baby food of some kind so therefore there's no additional cost for the food. My impression is that over 2 the norm is half price for breakfast for B&B places which, in practical terms, would mean that each child is "costing" about 1€ per night in terms of the breakfast. I've seen some places offering the evening meals at reduced prices for children (which seems fair enough if you're counting 2-12-ish as children and serving smaller portions).[/quote]

Not in my experience Arnold!!!  I remember the first child I let stay here for free (and the last incidentally) was a 10 month old because I had similar views to yours about baby food etc.  The little buggar ate a banana, a yoghurt, a pain chocolat and drank a mugful of milk (more than a lot of adults get through).  No way, most kids scoff down the pain chocolat, as well as a yoghurt and very often a croissant with lashings of jam (aside from that which ends up all round the table, on the floor and on their chair) so, sorry, but no half-price breakfasts here!  Dinner is 10 euros for kids having 2 courses and a soft drink or 15 euros for those having 3, whilst adults are 22.50 for 4 courses plus wine (the coke or orangina often costs as much as the wine!)  And I'm with Miki all the way on bedding and towels which need washing!

[Owens88]

Slight variation on the question.  Do you give a discount for larger bookings ? Do you give a discount for 3rd/4th people sharing a room ? If charging full whack for kids (fair enough) do they get their own room ?

Rhetorical questions so answers on a Guiness will be ok.

My point is that I quite like the continental hotel practice of charging by the room.  I could even understand a small premium per person above the 1st.

 

Actually anybody who has read any of my other mails would also realise that I don't understand why any family with kids between toddler to 9 would stay in a traditional CdH anyway.