Telephones

[Clair]

Some details here:

[quote]Pour compléter leurs prestations d’hébergement, les propriétaires de

gîtes ruraux ou de chambres d’hôtes (par exemple) peuvent, le cas

échéant, créer une table d’hôtes.

[...]

B. Respect de la réglementation relative aux débits de boissons

Pour pouvoir offrir des boissons, alcoolisées ou non, l’exploitant

d’une table d’hôtes doit être pourvu de l’une des deux catégories de

licences suivantes :

- la petite licence restaurant qui permet de servir certaines boissons

pour les consommer sur place, mais seulement à l’occasion des

principaux repas et comme accessoires de la nourriture ;

- la grande licence restaurant qui permet de servir pour consommer sur

place toutes les autres boissons dont la consommation est autorisée,

mais seulement à l’occasion des principaux repas et comme accessoires

de la nourriture. 

Types de licences	Groupes	Liste des boisson
Petite licence  restaurant	Premier groupe	Boissons sans alcool : eaux minérales ou gazéifiées, jus de fruits ou de légumes non fermentés ou ne comportant pas, à la suite d’un début de fermentation, des traces d’alcool supérieures à 1 degré, limonades, sirops, infusions, lait, café, thé, chocolat, etc.
	Deuxième groupe	Boissons fermentées non distillées : vin, champagne, bière, cidre, poiré, hydromel, vins doux naturels bénéficiant du régime fiscal des vins, crèmes de cassis et jus de fruits ou de légumes fermentés comportant de 1, 2 à 3 degrés d’alcool.
Grande licence  restaurant	Troisième groupe	Vins doux naturels, autres que ceux appartenant au groupe 2, vins de liqueur, apéritifs à base de vin et liqueurs de fraises, framboises, cassis ou cerises, ne titrant pas plus de 18° d’alcool pur.
	Quatrième groupe	Rhums, tafias et alcools provenant de la distillation des vins, cidres, poirés ou fruits et ne supportant aucune addition d’essence ainsi que des liqueurs édulcorées au moyen de sucre, de glucose ou de miel (sous conditions).
	Cinquième groupe	Toutes les autres boissons alcooliques qui ne sont pas interdites et qui ne font pas partie des quatre groupes précédents.

Ces licences sont délivrées par les recettes buralistes (recette locale

des impôts) ou le bureau des douanes dont dépend l’exploitation.

http://www.inforeg.ccip.fr/L'exploitation d'une table d'hôtes

[/quote]

[cassis]

[quote user="sid"][quote user="Quillan"]

.... There are laws on supplying tea, coffee and juice at breakfast and a licence is required.  Serving meals at night requires a licence as well.

[/quote]

Wow! I'm curious; we don't run CdH but we know people who do and this has never come up before. Could you point me towards some relevant legislation, a web site, perhaps?

Sid

[/quote]

For some reason the file similar to that posted by Clair on the inforeg site which relates directly to the exploitation of chambres d'hotes (rather than tables d'hotes) has gone awol along with several others.  Maybe it is being updated with the new rules about informing Mary etc.  Normally it would be here:

http://www.inforeg.ccip.fr/fiches/pdf/chambres_hote.pdf

But it said pretty much the same as what Clair has posted relating to tables d'hotes.  I've got a copy of it that I downloaded some time ago and the relevant section says:

2. Respect de la réglementation relative aux débits de boissons

Pour pouvoir offrir des boissons au petit déjeuner, l’exploitant de chambres d’hôtes doit être pourvu de la petite licence restaurant qui permet de servir certaines boissons (voir le tableau) pour les consommer sur place, mais seulement à l’occasion des principaux repas et comme accessoires de la nourriture.

Cette licence est délivrée par les recettes buralistes (recette locale des impôts) ou par le bureau des douanes dont dépend l’exploitation.

Petite licence : Liste des boissons

Premier groupe Boissons sans alcool : eaux minérales

ou gazéifiées, jus de fruits ou de

légumes non fermentés ou ne

comportant pas, à la suite d’un début

de fermentation, des traces d’alcool

supérieures à 1 degré, limonades,

sirops, infusions, lait, café, thé,

chocolat, etc.

Deuxième groupe Boissons fermentées non distillées :

vin, champagne, bière, cidre, poiré,

hydromel, vins doux naturels

bénéficiant du régime fiscal des vins,

crèmes de cassis et jus de fruits ou de

légumes fermentés comportant de 1, 2

à 3 degrés d’alcool.

So the fact of serving drinks (juice, coffee, tea) with breakfast requires a licence.  But they are free anyway and don't require anything other than the ability to fill in the required form; tea making skills are not tested in front of a fonctionnaire. 

You might wonder if they are also unaware they need to register their chambres d'hôtes activity with old Mary, if they really are unaware of the drinks licence - there again, maybe they just thought there was no reason to mention any of this?

[sid]

Thanks Clair and Cassis, that's very interesting. It'll also make for an interesting conversation this weekend! [;-)]

Sid

[Quillan]

These are the latest. I don't think they do it as a pdf anymore, perhaps they have not the time to do it.

The updated version of CdH (6th August 2007) .:

http://www.inforeg.ccip.fr/Ouverture-et-exploitation-de-chambres-d-hotes-fiche-67-7148.html

The updated version of Tdh (1st July 2007).:

http://www.inforeg.ccip.fr/L-exploitation-d-une-table-d-hotes-fiche-67-6006.html

And for those with Gites as of 1st April 2007

http://www.inforeg.ccip.fr/L-exploitation-d-une-table-d-hotes-fiche-67-6006.html

Just as a matter of interest does anyone know where the new fines are listed for non compliance. My old booklet is dated 2005 and may well be out of date.

 

 

[cassis]

5000€ last I heard.  For non-declaration at the Mary.  I'll check it out.

I've checked it out.  That was wrong.  It's 1500€ for a first offence (not declaring to the Mary) and 3000€ for a second. 

Maybe the 5000 (which sticks with me) was for the drinks licence.

[Quillan]

[quote user="sid"]

Thanks Clair and Cassis, that's very interesting. It'll also make for an interesting conversation this weekend! [;-)]

Sid

[/quote]

As somebody said your friends might not be aware of all the rules for CdH and TdH or that they have changed so it may pay you to visit the links given, print them off and take them with you.

It's small things like with evening meals ( I am reminded of this seeing Keith's photo's of his dinning room with seperate tables), separate the tables and you are a restaurant. That means a whole different ball game like separate kitchen, food storage etc and so it goes on. In our area the DDE (why the DDE I don't know, possibly drew the short straw) are now starting to visit B&B's that are not registered with the Marie. Don't know if they are actually fining them at the moment.

[sid]

Quillan

Thanks. The plot thickens! Separate tables...restaurant... etc I'm pretty sure that our friends have no idea about this so I'll use some of my rapidly-emptying ink cartridges and print some info for them. [;-)]

Sid

[Kitty]

It's crazy to give people breakfasts on a communal table.  That's like boarding school where you had to sit on the next available bench.  People want seperate tables.  Who wants to smell garlic on a stranger's breath when eating your bacon and eggs (or croissant and Bonne Maman)?

 

 

[Clair]

Cathy, you're thinking of it as an English B&B. It is not a B&B, it a a Chambre d'Hôtes and these are the rules.

They originate from the very early days where this type of accommodation would be offered by a farmer's wife as an additional income to that brought in by the farmer. The guests would share the farmer's meal at his table.

The standards have improved but the rules have remained.

[jon]

My neighbour[who has a very sucessful b and B] has a very large table and everyone has a wonderful time chatting and getting to know each other.We have stayed with her and many others who operate in a simillar manner.But in summer guests could have breakfast in the garden.

[Will]

Oh, what horrors. I feel so sorry for you. Fancy having to sit next to those smelly johnny foreigners at breakfast.

Sorry, but France is not the same as England. I thought people liked the relaxed, old-fashioned values - it's a pity they include having to associate and converse with fellow guests, particularly those who are unfortunate enough to have been born French, with a taste for garlic. [6]

[Quillan]

[quote user="Cathy"]

It's crazy to give people breakfasts on a communal table.  That's like boarding school where you had to sit on the next available bench.  People want separate tables.  Who wants to smell garlic on a stranger's breath when eating your bacon and eggs (or croissant and Bonne Maman)?

[/quote]

And by law the owners have to eat with them when TdH is supplied.

Actually I like it, it's great fun and we have had some excellent guests over the years and have had wonderful evenings. You would be surprised how many guests actually like the idea. It's like having a dinner party every night but you get paid for doing it, fantastic. Don't forget with both breakfast and evening meals that by law they must be regional (so that means French) and must contain either farm or your garden grown produce. You also can't give a multiple choice menu else again you become a restaurant, owners and guests eat the same food. But then running a CdH is a doddle, hang a sign at the top of the road, sit in the garden with your feet up and glass of wine to hand and the money just roll's in. It's simply a licence to print money. [:D]

As somebody else has said and quite correctly so, there are no B&B's in France, they don't exist. It's Chambres d'Hôtes (room of hosts) and its a much better system than the UK B&B, well in my opinion anyway.

[jon]

That is exactly what we will be doing here in 33 in the middle of the vines....everyone collected together ...we only cook French cuisine and......except for my fresh crab and s

kate fish cakes which are made with spring onions and corriander leaves with a rocket salad....and chilli/sweet paper sauce.....but that is modern French cuisine!

Local wine will certainly not upset anyone...and alittle local pud wine with fresh grilled figs with honey, mascapone mousse and fresh passion fuit sorbet...could easily  pass as a truely French dessert.

I have been cooking for groups of people all my life as a chef cooking for 8.....al eating at the same time ...same menu is not too difficult for me.

Lokking forward to the summer.

[cassis]

I echo the sentiments expressed by everyone (i.e. no-one in particular) above.  We knit all our own croissants and grow our own sausages in Toulouse.  Many a happy hour around the piano with the guests, me on the accordeon and the wife on the Breton bagpipes.  The flying pig plays the piano.

[Clair]

[quote user="cassis"]I echo the sentiments expressed by everyone (i.e. no-one in particular) above.  We knit all our own croissants and grow our own sausages in Toulouse.  Many a happy hour around the piano with the guests, me on the accordeon and the wife on the Breton bagpipes.  The flying pig plays the piano.

[/quote]

What! No brioche embroidery?![:-))]

and where's the fluffy bunny?

[cassis]

Sorry, Clair I know it's disappointing, but the nearest we get to brioche embroidery is our tapestry pain aux amandes (charged as an extra, 100€ per person per night). 

The fluffy bunny is in the sausages.  An unfortunate reality of life.  Or fantasy.

[Quillan]

[quote user="cassis"]I echo the sentiments expressed by everyone (i.e. no-one in particular) above.  We knit all our own croissants and grow our own sausages in Toulouse.  Many a happy hour around the piano with the guests, me on the accordeon and the wife on the Breton bagpipes.  The flying pig plays the piano.
[/quote]

Piano oh how common [;-)]. We do know of one British couple about 20 mins away who (seriously) give demonstrations and lessons on circle dancing ! I am not too sure how you do it with two people, perhaps it's like that well know Olympic sport, singles synchronized swimming. Still I bet it's a fun packed evening. Personally I thought of after dinner mole hunts in the garden, I have enough of the little blighters, well I mean hunting is very French after all [:D]

[Jo Taylor]

We knit all our own croissants

Don't be silly, it's goats wot you knit! Croissants are crocheted.

Have you received a small package in the post yet?

[Cerise]

Oooooh - do you dispatch knit your own goat packages?     I'm very disappointed in crocheted croissants, at least 3 guests have chocked and the embroidered brioche were frankly naff.  But knitted goats .....