Its not our fault! or...the silly season has arrived!!

[Wendy]

Cass, that enquiry reads like a doctors prescription, I wonder if the chemist can translate it for you. We have had the odd scam booking, you know, the bad grammar etc, but thats a classic! you should copy them all down and turn them into a book of sorts. But I reckon only us in the business would really appreciate the humour. Im sure some people would even wipe their feet on us if we were to offer. We've no-one in for three days and I have to say its bliss.

[Cassis]

I like the book idea.  A bit like "Henry Root".  Ever read his collections of spoof letters to companies?  Brilliant!  Lots of imitators but he was the best.

I have a rule built into Outlook that dumps any email with mention of Ivory Coast or Cote d'Ivoire etc.  I don't think we'll get many genuine enquiries from there and I have no desire to buy a dozen mobiles for a visiting group of doctors/military chiefs/ whatever, even if they are coming to book all our rooms for a month.

[KathyC]

A view from the other side:- we've just come back from a week staying in an English run chambre d'hote (won't say the area in case they're members!)  After a couple of days of what we described as "boil in the bag" bread and croissants for breakfast, on the third day we were cheerfully told "toast for a change today!" and we were given 2 slices of toast each. This was the total breakfast again for the rest of the week, despite conspicuously displayed containers of cereal in the dresser. Some people who they'd known from the UK were given some kind of cake thing "for a change" on the days we saw them and someone from their home area was eating cereal on the morning of our last day. Obviously we weren't from the right part of the world!

We weren't particularly bothered about being woken up at 8.30 by building work; we were awake anyway as there were no curtains or blinds on the patio doors. We were, however, rather cheesed off when the owners mentioned in conversation that they'd be stopping work next week "as we've got people staying". It was at this point that we really began to feel invisible and unwanted. I wish I'd had the courage to put something really cutting in their visitors' book; I wrote "Lovely scenery" and left it at that, hoping they had enough intelligence to read between the lines - somehow I doubt it.

[Wendy]

Kathy, unless they are very thick skinned that two-word comment should tell them something. However, if you have their email address, or if they have one, you should drop them a line or two in a 'feedback' sort of way. We welcome that here, and on a couple of occasions some constructive critisism helped us make some real improvements. We still stay in contact with those guests. It does highlight a problem that some people go into the B&B thing with no planning or thought, and, very little enthusiasm once the novelty wears off. We've been in your shoes as well.

[Miki]

Kathy, without meaning to, you are now part of that B&B's ongoing

problem. You really should have said something, things are invariably

still the same there I suspect.

No idea what boiled in the bag bread is about ! Give them their due though, they must have looked hard and long to find it !!

We have guests (strange that !) and it is often about reading the

situation, some folks come to France and simply adore just having bread

and croissants every morning for  a week or more, all other

choices being simply dismissed. Whereas, we have some British guests

who like cereals, others toast, some ask if they have boiled eggs and

soldiers on the next morning. It is a case of having a feel for it all

and being aware of some folks quirks, in that I probably mean the good

old body language.

I suspect your hosts were either cheesed off or simply clueless !

[Alan]

[quote user="Miki"]
I suspect your hosts were either cheesed off or simply clueless !



[/quote]

Time to turn out the lights and lock the door in my view.

 

Kathy you really should have voiced your opinion . Afraid Toast is my one pet hate, will not serve it unless the guests ask for it as I always think that they will think its old bread I am toasting and breakfast is just one of the things I pride myself on

 

[Wendy]

Miki I wonder if Kathy was served that pre-baked type of bread in the plastic bag that you then heat up. We once had to do a last minute meal and served said pre-baked heated up all nice and hot. The couple were french and simply placed it to one side...enough said. The Boil-in-the-bag concept is interesting though, we stock up at METRO and there is a section for ready-made meals to boil-in-the-bag. I have noticed several local-ish restaurant owners stocking up on them and I always thought their meals were prepared fresh by a chef!. I wonder if it is sometimes easier/cheaper for them to do this than employ a 'proper' cook?. I do my meals from scratch by the way, the satisfaction would not be there otherwise.

Haven't had boiled eggs and soldiers for years..just off to the kitchen:)

[Miki]

Wen,

Ah those, well I will be honest here.

We get that sort from Brake France (Brake Brothers of the UK) but they

come in boxes not bags. We have been unlucky recently that the local

boulangerie has shut due to an accident to Madam and it has been up for

sale for a while.

We still have another at 3 km's but the bread can be gum ripping on

occasion. Some of the better hotels around here, will serve up these,

as well as croissants/pain au chocolats from the same company. We do as

well (shock !!) the Charente butter croissants are as good as most

boulangeries can make and with the afore mentioned problems with our

one and only neaaby bakers too risky at times, it is an alternative for

us. As guests have never complained about them and often complemented,

then......

I think it was SB who put me on to the Italian style bread sold in Lidl, ruddy luvverley it be as well................

And yes, I too know several resto owners who also buy those huge

barquettes of ready made stuff in Promo or Metro. I have to say again,

when Tina was away once, I succumbed to buying a fish based pie, I made

a quick but lovely sauce (learned from OH) and the guests loved it,

questioning me afterwards as well. Suffice to say, Pinnochio readily

springs to mind. I keep guests happy, if not gastronomically, then in

spirit.............

[The Riff-Raff Element]

[quote user="wen"]

 The Boil-in-the-bag concept is

interesting though, we stock up at METRO and there is a section for

ready-made meals to boil-in-the-bag. I have noticed several local-ish

restaurant owners stocking up on them and I always thought their meals

were prepared fresh by a chef!. I wonder if it is sometimes

easier/cheaper for them to do this than employ a 'proper' cook....

[/quote]

Ah, well, yes, you have a good point here. As France comes to terms

with its place in the exciting, thrusting global economy, it becomes

more and more difficult to turn out good-quality, freshly prepared

meals for €8 a head. The numbers just don't add up. A number of our

guests have commented (commented, not whinged, you understand) that

they have seen a decline in the quality of "cheap" meals over the past

few years and I fear they might be right.

Strangely, this benefits us to an extent. Since the meals side is very

much an "extra" to our core business (Gites, not CdH) we are actually

able to genuinely use "fresh, highest quality" local ingredients,

which, frankly, gives us an instant leg-up over some restaurants,

offering far higher quality for the same prices. Our margins are very

small (on a per hour basis, they are laughable) but since the overheads

are already pretty much covered, it doesn't really matter. We have

never been busier, and it has encouraged more than one rebooking.

[Will]

Miki, the Lidl half-baked mini-baguettes are not half bad either, as long as they are neither over- nor under-cooked. Not that we ever resorted to them with B&B guests who always got fresh baguette with fresh croissant and pain au chocolat/pain au raisin.

We did stay at a 120€ a night B&B just a couple of days ago. No croissant for breakfast, just bread (choice of today's uncut, no bread knife or anything) or yesterday's cut and toasted, along with a Carrefour yogurt and orange juice in the supermarket bottle (similar stinginess in the bathroom supplies too). Of course, there will be feedback.

[KathyC]

[quote user="wen"]

Miki I wonder if Kathy was served that pre-baked type of bread in the plastic bag that you then heat up.

[/quote]

Yes, that's what I mean, "boil in the bag" was our joke about it. I think that we were a bit inhibited about commenting on it as we were there for a week and also we'd had a hefty discount as a late booking. We realised that we had a good deal financially so we were trying to be fairly self effacing by asking for our room not to be cleaned and offering to pay for extra electicity if we needed to use a fan for long periods. I think that we must have been so self effacing that we disappeared without trace! The amazing thing was that there were several comments in the visitors' book thanking the hosts for the amazing breakfasts, including the people before us who had got an even better deal than we had. It rather shook my confidence in my own opinion, which I think is why I posted this here. I'm actually all for complaining and agree that standards won't improve without it. These people also seem to have successfully run a b&b in the UK before moving out to France and had run several small retail businesses before that.

I must admit that it was the strangest place I've ever stayed in. As well as converting outbuildings into gites they were building rooms piecemeal inside a large agricultural building, including what they described as "budget rooms" which had fluorescent lighting and no external windows. They  were about to open a bar for residents and to offer meals to the public, both of which I would have thought were not allowed (although they said that they were waiting for their licences to come through).

I think I'll email them with some comments as you've all confirmed my reaction. I don't suppose I'd better blame them for the weather as well, everyone else has been sweltering last week and we've been stuck in clouds and mist on the foothills of the Pyrennees. We got so fed up that we left early; not surprisingly, nobody asked us if there was anything wrong. Do I sound fed up? Yes, I thought I did!

[Cerise]

Definitely say something Kathy.  I would much rather my guests complained to me (though I would hope they wouldn't have to complain) than put it on a forum.  We have had several lots of guests coming to us from obviously the same place.  Only one lot took a look at the other rooms and had the courage not to stay.  The rest came to us with a sorry story of industrial croissants and dirty linen.  If no-one ever makes it obvious that something is wrong people will just continue in the same vein - at least a few adverse comments might make them think.  If you are offering to pay extra for using the fans then you can come here and be my favourite guest as right now everyone has them on all the time - but at least they are not blaming me for the hot weather[:)]

It is a difficult line to draw between value for money and down right stingy.  We too pride ourselves on our breakfasts and meals generally.  But, out of season we go and stay in other chambre d'hôtes occasionally and often the breakfast is downright pathetic.  They do not however seem to lack clients and as they are charging the same, or more, than me I can only assume that they are makling a lot more profit with very little effort.  My pride wouldn't let me provide shoddy service, but what price my pride?

 

[Wendy]

Well Miki, to be honest back with you Ive considered the ready-made Paella's as I'm a bit nervous about doing seafood. And I need to offer a seafood alternative sometimes. Its just not my forte. I was poisoned by an oyster in Sydney yonks back and have never forgotten it. Neither has that loo I assume:)).

However, if you served it with a smile that counts for everything dosen't it?

Lidi also do those brilliant vanilla yogs in the glass containers, the guests always love 'em.

[Miki]

We also get all our little bottles of  water from Lidl, not bought

many of the half baguettes form there Will  but they seemed OK

when we tried them but the Brake France bread does really taste..well

like bread  ! The bonus of cooking bread and croissants plus

coffee brewing, is the smell of it all wafting around the breakfast

room and up the stairs !

Tina gets odds and sods quite often from Leader

Price and finds them OK but in general, most stuff we buy for the

B&B comes from Metro, Promo or Brake France.

When we used to live in the South West, I used to see the Macons from

the local village slip in to the bar/boulangerie at around 07h15 and

have a quick café cognac and then buy a pain au raisin, on the way out !

In Bayeux last year in a 3 Epis CdH we had bread and jam for breakfast followed the next morning by cake and jam !!

[Cassis]

We get all our bread and such stuff for breakfast - croissants, pain aux amandes and bread of various sorts - from our village boulangerie each morning.  Open at 6.00am so early starts aren't a problem.

But our local boulangerie has one day off a week - Monday.  Are there some boulangeries that are open 7 days a week so you can always have baguettes baked early that morning?  (If someone needs an early start on Monday we have to do the cook in your oven variety as the next village bakery is also closed Mondays - done properly and fresh, I actually prefer it!)

Leclerc do wonderful breads - including a very good ciabatta type called 'pain polka'. Unfortunately we can only serve it once a week after our main grocery shop.

[Coco]

[quote user="wen"]

Haven't had boiled eggs and soldiers for years..just off to the kitchen:)

[/quote]

Neither have I Wen; last time was my 24th birthday when I was working as an assistant Purser on the SS Uganda, carrying troops to the Falkland Islands.  My steward offered me breakfast in bed as a treat and asked what I would like.  Very stupidly I asked for a boiled egg and soldiers and that's EXACTLY what I got ..... a boiled egg, marched into my cabin by ten squaddies!!!! [:D]

On a more serious note.  I can't understand anyone that runs a B&B and doesn't provide fresh bread and croissants EVERY day.  Even our closest boulangerie is 3km away and on a Monday when they are closed MOH drives to the next nearest, which is 5KM away.  Never had anyone comment on the scenery though - most comment on the wonderful food.  I agree with Miki, Kathy, you should let them know.  From a B&B owner's point of view, they may think what they're doing is OK, so unless you let them know how disappointed you were, they can't or won't see the need to improve it.

[Cassis]

[quote user="St Amour"][

On a more serious note.  I can't understand anyone that runs a B&B and doesn't provide fresh bread and croissants EVERY day.  Even our closest boulangerie is 3km away and on a Monday when they are closed MOH drives to the next nearest, which is 5KM away. 

[/quote]

Our next nearest one, at Champfleur, is also closed on Mondays.  Daft planning by the bakers, or what?  [:)]

[Cerise]

We would have over an hour's return drive to a bakery on a Monday, but I find that if I freeze croissants immediately on Sunday morning they are fine re-heated on Monday.    Our bakery does stay open 7 days a week in July and August however. Sometimes I make scones or fairy cakes (for breakfast - yuk)  for French visitors on Mondays which they love.  And often suggest other things like scrambled eggs to the Brits. 

Actually St Amour - my French competitors locally all use 'industrial' croissants from supermarkets.  People remark on how nice the breakfasts are with us and the boulangere gives us a discount as she is so pleased we use local products.  However, French run B & B down the road said I am mad as local - delicious - croissants cost 62 cents each and she can buy a bag of 10 for 2 euros.  Horses for courses!!

[Gastines]

We are fortunate with having 4 bunshops within 4kms. The closest being 2 kms away, and as one door closes ,another opens. This is unusual for me as normally, as one door closes,another shuts. So we can say B&Bers ALWAYS get fresh croissants/bread and if  with children or staying longer we get a few other buns as well. As the majority of our visitors are French, we think they might know the difference. Apart from that I thought one of the joys of being here was the fresh bread and produce?

It is interesting to see,and clear up afterwards,the various ways visitors eat there brekkies.Some fill the cereal bowl with coffee or chocolate, then dunk everything in it,crumbs everywhere.I've yet to see one eat their boiled egg in the egg-cup,usually peeling it and slicing it up,or trying to.Also our French visitors always prefer my wife's home made jam , especially rhubarb,plum being a second choice.Most seem pleased if you put some of their countries normal brekkie out but I don't think I could eat sausage and pumpernickel bread first thing!!

I suppose ,as is with any business, it depends if you are trying to make a living,working to a budget and it is your only income.We don't want to do it at a loss but like to think guests leave happy and full and may return, even if it's only for the breakfast.

Regards. B&B St.Malo.    ourinns.org. and don't forget....Tall Ships at St.Malo 6th -9th July,a grand day out.

[Cassis]

Jude's walnut bread always goes down very well.  And madeleines.  Germans love pain aux amandes.  Can't stand cakey stuff first thing, personally.  Have to agree 110% re home-made jams - have you tried cherry jam or quince jelly?  Delicious!  I speak as a consumer rather than as a maker. [;-)]

Regarding eating habits, filling the cereal bowl with coffee or chacolate is probably because they drink their beverages out of 'bols' at home - still very common instead of cups.

I imagine they make quite a mess out of trying to slice a soft-boiled egg.  Maybe little diagrams on the breakfast table to explain the English way?[:)]

[Miki]

One thing guaranteed to pee me off and make me laugh, is the utter

pomposity of some Brits running B&B's and thinking what they give

at breakfasts, are the best in France. I will tell you now, the only

proof of anything, are the figures at the end of a season. One may be

egoistic enough to say fresh this, fresh that, as the only way to go

but I would say the most important thing in any business is how the

sums add up at the end of a long and hard season. Sure we all want to

give our guests a good breakfast but I have been offered huge variances

all over France but that in now way worries me, it seriously doesn't. I

laughed about our cake and jam in Bayeux...so bluddy what, of course it

wasn't very varied but.... Breakfast means very little in real terms of

gastronomy in France and it is normally in my view,  the egoistes

or those who fear the highly unlikely wrath of guests that want to show off at

breakfast.

We do B&B, we charge in the height of the season, 56 euros for two

persons with breakfasts included. The ones that better our breakfasts

and no doubt there are hundreds or maybe thousands, are in general, the

ones after pin money, simply doing B&B as a way to top up their

incomes. Sorry but they can afford to do this, many of us are here

doing it as a business and for us giving a full Savoy style breakfast,

it may indeed please the guests endlessly and for sure, many will go away in

wonderment but for any serious business of our size to do that on the

amount we charge is simply ridiculous and out of the question.

I, like many of you, have stayed in hotels ranging from 1 to 5 star,

hotel catering is weighed and portion controlled, note good chefs will

buy good food at sensible prices, they don't have to pay fortunes as

one might expect but they cook and serve it right, always

professionally done. It is not only about serving the best of

everything neccessarily, it is about presentation. Give the best food

in a horrible atmopshere and it means nothing, serve bad food in a

lovely place, same thing....serve decent food in a nice friendly

ambiance et voila, you have the vital ingredients to succeed. Over

spend, be over generous and you can be dead in the water without fail.

Experience will tell you when you are doing it best and at the best

value for you and importantly your client. If I were to give more for

breakfast, then we would have to charge more, there's the rub, our area

has many B&B's (look in GdFr book under Brittany to see what I

mean) putting prices up is fraught with possible danger, just one euro

can tip a potential client in favour of the cheaper one. We do OK but I

don't believe in tempting providence.

You get a feel for B&B through the proverbials, you know

instinctively when you are doing it OK, the body language of the

guests, how much food comes back at breakfasts, at dinner, through the

books...the one thing we must remember is, running a B&B is either

your business or your top up, dont ever mix the two types in terms of

pricing, we need to produce good figures it as for us a business,

expenditure has to be in line with income. Giving the greatest

breakfast on earth may make one feel like a god but the bottom line is,

if one is in business then that breakfast should refect in the price if

not...then one is not serious about the business of earning a living

but simply looking good or looking for extra top up money.

OK you may all think me totally wrong but I guess, as we are doing OK

(never be too confident though, the late80's/ early90's saw a terrible

plunge in tourism and if one had been through that, one might just be

syphoning a little away for the rainy days arrival!) then we must be

doing something right and without giving what many think, as the only

breakfast one could possibly give to guests.

Now, the Charantaise croissants used in the best hotels and supplied by

Brake France are as good as most of the boulangeres in France can make.

Have no fear, I have seen them on sale in boulangeries. They are often

twice as large as some awful croissants that some bakers produce, we

don't give shop bought fresh bread to our guests, as our only bakers

within a sensible drive as it is all too often gum ripping....so we

supply great bread, pain au chocolat, croissants from a source that

have now been running for many, many years ands supplying thousands of

establishments in many countries. How do they ever keep running I

wonder ? Well they supply excellent products at prices that suit the

people who buy them but more importantly, the guests eat them and

rarely any come back, if at all. That'll do for me and thousands and

thousands of other establishments. So regardless of what owners who

wouldn't possibly use them think, far better hotels, B&Bs than them

(inc. us) use them and wonder of wonders, they keep on buying and Brake

keep on selling. Not because of price alone, if they were no good and

only boulangeries were any good, how long do you seriously think Brake

would have lasted in the so called land of gastronomy ?

Et voila .............................

[Cassis]

Can you tell me where you get the Brake France stuff from, Miki?  I would like to give their range a try if it's readily available.

Our local baker does great croissants (my only complaint would be that they are too big) and pains aux amandes, but I don't rate his pains au chocolat.  Too big (like the croissants) and not enough chocolate for me.

Phil

PS Jude likes jam making and I don't know what else we'd do with all the fruit from the garden!

[Cerise]

Yes Miki - hence my comment; what price my pride?  Contacted Brake myself, but they didn't/wouldn't deliver here as it was too 'in the sticks' so have to stick with local boulangerie (good) or nearest supermarket (40 km away and not so good)   Didn't mean to be pompous but if I was, then I'm always glad to give people a larf.  I also tend not to go back myself to places where the breakfasts are rubbish so think guests might do the same.

At the moment tourism in this area is just terrible - so I would stand on my head in the middle of the square and sing the Marseillaise if that would attract custom (most likely send people running for cover though).  We are lucky enough to have customers - but I have no doubt that I mean lucky as there are other places in the area that are suffering badly and there is certainly nothing wrong with them.  Yesterday drove in to Cordes-sur-ciel (normally very touristy) and was able to park in the village centre - unheard of in July - and there were so few people about.  All local restaurateurs etc very gloomy so hope it is not another big turn down in trade.  Have to say that if we had to rely on British trade I think this year would be a disaster for us.

Interesting about your prices - would you consider yourself expensive, or average for your area?  We charge 50 euros for double room and are considered pretty pricey locally (but I'm not ironing sodding sheets all the time for less than that!)  I would like to increase this for next year - but am seriously anxious about doing so as couple of other places locally which are more expensive literally have no guests.  We are in a much less tourist orientated part of the world than yourselves and I can't think of any B & Bs locally who make sole living from it - just don't think the season is long enough.  However, for me it does need to be a reasonable second wage (try to earn at least as much as husband does working) for us to be able to live so yes, I take is seriously.

Seems we have gone seriously off topic here - sorry folks

Maggi

 

 

 

[Cassis]

So is Brakes a delivery van system, Cerise?

[Miki]

Sorry Maggie, it certainly was not aimed at you. It was after reading,

not only on here but elsewhere, just how much and what, some British

owned places give their guests and hark on about it.

I would say we are certainly above the average nightly cost.

Many are around the €40/50 per night, quite a few are above €50 and

some even charge  €80 or more. I don't think we should worry on

the off topic score, we all need to learn from each other and I am sure

we have all helped newbies who are looking in, to start a B&B (as

long a sit is not next door that is !!)

Yes Cassis, Brake France is a delivery system, take a look at their site at http://www.brake.co.uk/brake-france/introuk.htm

Our local depot moved From Taden (Dinan) to near Nantes but there is a

sub depot near Rennes which delivers to us, why not try a few boxes (84

per box = 3 X 28 per bag inside), you can only lose clients [;-)]

We buy their mini pain au chocolat, for the same reason, kids found

the large ones just too much, therefore lots of waste (which goes to

neighbours chickens and goat !)