Use of the word "Gite"

[Brier]

We visited our local Chambre de Commerce last week and were advised that we couldn't use the word "Gite" to describe our properties unless we were registered with Gites de France. The same thing applied to "Chambre d'Hote" and "Table de Hote" for B&B facilities with or without evening meals. The suggestion was that these terms were registered trademarks or whatever the French equivalent is.

Has anyone else received "official" advice that supports or denies this?

Thanks

[Miki]

G de Fr do seem to have "carte blanche" on the title Chambres (Tables) d'Hôtes et Gîtes but I can't really see any judge giving you any problems if it came down to any decision but being France who knows but you could expect a warning first I would think, before any possible action.

If you were to put any signs up, it might get a bit sticky if one of their people drove past and saw the words on signs but no G de Fr logo but even then, worry about that if it happens.

You will see many simple Chambres signs on the roadside etc, so maybe these folk just prefer not to tempt fate.

The C de Com will go with the decisions laid down by G de Fr as they really are a powerful organisation, for better or worse, they more or less, laid the foundation and expansion for this area of tourism. As far as it being law, it might be but, how strictly it is carried out, is for you to risk I guess, or perhaps ask at the Mairie for advice ?

 

[passiflora]

Well this is a good one - how very french.

Anyway I have just looked in my french Larousse de poche 2005 which describes "gîte" as a "lieu où on demeure où l'on loge" so can't see any problems there - show the mayor a copy of the dictionary - it is a word of general useage and make a joke of it. However interestingly a "gîte rural" is described as a maison située a la campagne et aménagée selon certaines norms pour recevoir des vacanciers" which rather implies it has to meet certain criteria so you might have problems using that one.

I have to admit though with my advertising in the UK I tend to use the words 'farmhouse and holiday cottages' as the Brits generally think of 'gîtes' being outdated, poorly equipped properties with even poorer drains!!

Bon courage

CaroleS (16)

 

[The Riff-Raff Element]

It does sound a bit unlikely, the word "gite" being in general usage as it is. We've got a meeting next week with the deputy with responsibility for tourism in our dept, so I might just ask. I think you'd be in more danger if your signing in any way resembled GdF's...

[Miki]

We have had this type of conversation before on LF. "Gite" simply means, a place to rest, not necessarily a cottage or even a B&B specifically, just a place to stay. Yes it is Gîte rural, which is one of the names that G de Fr have "coined a phrase" with.

Brits generally think of 'gîtes' being outdated, poorly equipped properties with even poorer drains!!

I have never heard that from anyone other than the occasional remark on LF but I know of several people, who seek out a gîte, as the value in many cases is terrific in comparison to the rubbish that some Brits are pushing out in the hire place (I am not accusing you personally in any way whatsoever Carole)

It is difficult, as we have had some people think, that due to once hiring a poorly equipped cottage run by Brits, now, do not want to rent a place described as farmhouse or holiday cottages as they see them as furnished with Granny's old cast offs and poor quality second hand furniture from the depot ventes, tons of DIY and very poorly done at that.

Now many of us know that is not true in a lot of cases but, just as you say, some people think gîtes mean bad quality to them, the same can also be said of the British equivalent. One thing in gîte's favour is that, if it is with an organisation, such as G de Fr, one can hopefully expect that it has been graded properly, whereas anything in the private sector can, for the large part, be a case of pot luck, in the hope that the owners text is accurate and above all honest because something like a trip of say 400-800 miles is a long way to find a tip !

Nothing better than word of mouth, for either form of reserving.

As jond has stated, never try to mimic a logo or pretend to be with an organisation, many folks have found at their expense, that it was not worth the risk. The organisations jealously guard their "reputation" and are "self managed" by the locals who belong to such memberships.

By the way we do not have a gite with G de France.

 

 

 

[Liz]

[quote]We visited our local Chambre de Commerce last week and were advised that we couldn't use the word "Gite" to describe our properties unless we were registered with Gites de France. The same thing appli...[/quote]

If you follow this link through to a PDF file that sets out a brief history of GdeF http://www.gites-de-france.fr/fr/savoir/pagesavoir.htm you will find that it refers to dates on which the terms Gites de France and Chambre d'Hote were made official. I am not sure if this is the same as a trade mark but I would certainly avoid using the word Gite unless I were part of the organisation. To French people, at least, these terms do mean something very specific and people that I know who let out holiday property not in the organisation will refer to it as a Meublée or Location Saisoniere, as do web sites that advertise such places.

Liz (29)

[passiflora]

Well I still think you can use the word "gite"

And Micky - really "granny's old furniture indeed" you will be pleased to know my "gites" oops "farmhouse and barn" are nicely furnished and good value for money. You have such a great sense of humour

However, Micky you are right about one thing - either way word of mouth and recommendation is the best way and I already have some of those for next summer.

CaroleS (16)

[Mpprh]

Hi

I have a French neighbour whose "Gite" is widely listed as a Gites Rurale.

It is in fact a converted garage in a lottissement.

He doesn't seem to worry.

Peter

[The Riff-Raff Element]

[quote]It does sound a bit unlikely, the word "gite" being in general usage as it is. We've got a meeting next week with the deputy with responsibility for tourism in our dept, so I might just ask. I think y...[/quote]

Having now had meeting with tourism chap I think that you are perfectly safe in using the word "gite" to describe your gite. Certainly we will be making no changes. I'd restate what I said before though - I'd make very sure that any

logos or publicity were put together in such as way to ensure that no confusion could occur.

[Brier]

Thanks to everyone for their replies.

We have our meeting at the Chambre de Commerce to register our business tomorrow so we'll see how we get on.

Whatever they allow us to describe ourselves as, I think that we are going to continue to use the word "gite" but not the term "gite rural" based on the replies here and some further research that we've done.

 

 

[Deby]

It is worth remembering that the word 'gite' is not a universal term such as those  of hotel, villa, holiday home.  Some people do not know what it means. 

Deby

[Miki]

That is true and for the UK market, although  I have stated that we know people who have shied away from hiring the Brit owned and publicised "Cottage holiday home" I would tend to still go with Cottage as the title in any UK publicity,(and ensure flowing text to follow it with !!) although in the last 10 years or so,  I would certainly say any Francophile is very well versed in knowing what a Gîte is.

 

[Owens88]

Several years ago friends of ours went on holidays to 'gites' and I fondly imagined cottages in a private estate.

Last year we registered our place with the local tourist office. It is all on one level but it has a ground level entrance one side, yet becomes a first floor property the other side (because the mountain slopes away). We called it an apartment, they called it a gite. Now we tend to use both terms.

John

[Chris_Haze]

John

We'd be grateful to know how your registration with the local Tourist Office went, did you have to prepare anything for them, did they visit the property etc.

Also, we've been told (by an expert!!!) that whatever else you do, you have to register with Gites de France as well. We have heard so many conficting stories, so it would be good to hear of your personal experience.

Any advice you can give us would be gratefully received as we are about to register our holiday cottage now, in preparation for the new year.

Many thanks

Hazel

 

[The Riff-Raff Element]

[quote]John We'd be grateful to know how your registration with the local Tourist Office went, did you have to prepare anything for them, did they visit the property etc. Also, we've been told (by an exper...[/quote]

Hazel,

To be clear, we did not go to the Tourism Office to register. The guy we saw is the duputé at the conseil général for our dept. (85) who has responsibility for tourism and we were discussing other tourism matters. We are not registered with our local tourism office. I'll explain, but please understand that this is from our personal experience, so don't take it as gospel.

We are a fully badged business (SIRET, properly prepared accounts, licences for alcohol sale, etc). However, there is currently no obligation for someone running a holiday home lettings business to be registered with anyone. Income from rental activity can be declared to the tax people along with any other earnings at the close of each year (I believe form 2044 is used for the purpose).

Our local toursim office (although very helpful and generous with publicity material) explained that they were really only interested in businesses that could take on passing trade at short notice - B&B or hotel business basically. Here, at least, they seldom if ever get enquiries from people interested in taking a weeks rental sometime next April.

To register as a business...our first step many moons ago was to find an accountant and describe the business that we were putting together. He then prepared a short letter to the Chamber of Commerce suggesting how we should be registered (in the first instance, in our case, as a micro entreprise). The CdC then carried out the actual registration. This approach saves a lot of too-ing and fro-ing. The CdC will require the usual paperwork: proof of identity (passport or titre de sejour), proof of address (EDF bill - the single most useful piece of paper in France), your French social security number, deeds to the property you are proposing to use for your business activities, etc.

Registration takes about 15 minutes, once you've assembled all the bits.

If you choose to remain as an individual rather than forming a business, I would suggest as a minimum at least letting your marie know what you are up to and paying a visit to your hotel d'impots to tell them you exist.

Registration with Gites de France is not a requirement. It would be fair to say, I think, that the tourism authorities would prefer people to be with GdF or Clévacances because these organisations impose standards. Personally, I think that some kind of compulsion to register and be inspected would be a good thing. This is not some ruse on my part to make it harder for people to set up competition to our own business; in a world where competition for the tourist buck is getting ever-more intense, any move that makes France a more attractive destination is a plus. Setting up a rating system similar to GdF or Clévacances' (though perhaps with less rigidity) for all rental accommodation would provide reassurance for those planning holidays that what they were booking met certain minimum quality standards. For property owners it would provide some protection from spurious complaint or inadvertant infractions of the law.

Hope this is in some way helpful - good luck in getting established. Jon

[Chris_Haze]

Thanks John

It was kind of you to take the time to give us such a comprehensive reply and to explain your situation.

We are not going to be setting up any kind of formal business ourselves, but merely have a small holiday cottage that we hope to let out through advertising etc. In your reply you covered our situation very well and it has underlined what we understood we needed to do.

We let our Maire know right from day one what our intentions were and he has been informed of all the work we have carried out to renovate the cottage, he tells us he is very happy that we run a holiday cottage in our village. The suggestion you made that we inform the   hotel d'impots of our intentions was a very good one and is something we will do early in the New Year.

Thanks again for your help, we wish you a Merry Christmas and a happy and successfull New Year.

Regards

Hazel and Chris

 

 

 

[Will]

We offer accommodation to a particular market, not tourists, so we have neither need nor desire to register with Gites de France or the tourist office. Yet the Impôts (for taxation) and Douanes (for licensing) describe us as chambres d'hôtes. Surely if Gites de France had some sort of copyright on the term they would have to call it something else?

[Russethouse]

My friend who has a small property to let in Brittany, did register with her local tourist board. They charge a small fee, but have a web site etc and that has produced good results for her.There was an inspection, but no problems.

Probably best to see what your local tourist board offer.

[Coco]

Going back to the original question - I cannot believe that either term can be exclusive to gites de France.  In our own experience our local tourist office refer to us as a chambre d'hote and refer to many other "holiday cottages" in the area as gites, even though they are not part of the GDF network.  Both terms are also defined in the Larousse English-French dictionary with no reference to trademarks or GDF and finally, I can understand that GDF may not "go after" every small business calling themselves a gite or chambres d'hote but if these truly were protected terms then I have no doubt they would by now have taken legal action against one of the biggest CDH websites called www.chambresdhotes.fr and another called www.chambresdhotes.nl but they haven't!

[Coco]

Going back to the original question - I cannot believe that either term can be exclusive to gites de France.  In our own experience our local tourist office refer to us as a chambre d'hote and refer to many other "holiday cottages" in the area as gites, even though they are not part of the GDF network.  Both terms are also defined in the Larousse English-French dictionary with no reference to trademarks or GDF and finally, I can understand that GDF may not "go after" every small business calling themselves a gite or chambres d'hote but if these truly were protected terms then I have no doubt they would by now have taken legal action against one of the biggest CDH websites called www.chambresdhotes.fr and another called www.chambresdhotes.nl but they haven't!

[Jeremy]

Surely the word GITE cannot be copyright,

Can it??

Almost every search engine uses the word when you ask about holiday accommodation so why do the French think it is sacresanct?

Anyway as long as one doesn't use their trade marks you are within the law, SURELY?

We need a Lawyer to answer this one..

Jeremy

[Catalpa]

[quote]Surely the word GITE cannot be copyright, Can it?? Almost every search engine uses the word when you ask about holiday accommodation so why do the French think it is sacresanct? Anyway as long as ...[/quote]

If anyone has any GdeF literature or paperwork - or if they look at their websites - any registered trademarks *have* to be shown as such either by a tm or c* after each term usage or by a general statement within the literature / paperwork / whatever stating that - for eg - Gite, Gites-de-France, Chambres d'Hotes are all registered trademarks of... whoever the registrants are.

Consistent failure to do this jeopardises the ongoing safety of the trademark registration. A real case of use it or lose it. Even within a company, internal memos, reports etc including trademarked words or phrases should have them designated as such even if only by capitalising, italicising or underlining. Of course, companies often don't but the fact they should indicates how important the trademark ownership statement is.

So, if there's no indication on GdF literature etc that the terms are trademarked, they wont't be. Even though "this is France!"

*can't remember the difference between tm and c registration / usage.