UPDATE ON FRENCH SOCIAL SECURITY WEBSITE

[cooperlola]

Appologies, I have not had time to read this yet, but the Social Security website has just been updated.  A translation and analysis will follow.....

http://www.securite-sociale.fr/comprendre/europe/europe/cmu_inactifs.htm

 Edit :This appears to me to be the key paragraph for E106 expirees:

6) Les personnes titulaires d’un formulaire E 106 pourront-elles accéder mécaniquement à la CMU à l'expiration de la durée de validité de leur formulaire ?

Seuls les ressortissants communautaires inactifs qui répondent aux deux conditions suivantes pourront bénéficier de la CMU de base s'ils le souhaitent :
- résider en France avant le 23 novembre 2007
- être titulaire ou avoir été titulaire d'un E 106

Pour les autres, l'accès à la CMU de base n'étant pas permis, ces personnes devront se doter d'une couverture maladie pour continuer à être régulières au séjour, à l'expiration de leur formulaire E 106.

 

It is now black and white!  However, obviously the direct instructions to CPAMs are the key thing, but anybody on an E106 which has expired should quote this statement to their local offices.  We will bring you more, as we know more!

[Clair]

What is says... Q&A translation to follow on FHI website

[quote]The circular of the Department of Social Security dated 23rd November 2007

clarifies the steps taken by the decree of 29th March 2007, which

transposes European directive of 29th April 2004 on

the legality of the residence into French legislation.

EU citizens and

persons residing in France as inactive, students or job

seekers can benefit from the CMU as long as their stay is lawful. However, their right to stay, which is no longer formalised by the detention of a residence permit, is based on

two conditions: having sufficient resources and a

comprehensive health insurance.

For those who cannot demonstrate 5

years of regular and uninterrupted stay, access to the CMU can only be

given when, having acquired a right to reside, such nationals are

experiencing an accident of life leading them to lose their resources

or their health insurance.

However, EU nationals who had been granted access to the CMU-b as of 23/11/07 will continue to benefit from it.

In addition, some inactive EU nationals holding a 106 E can

access the CMU-b if desired (see conditions in the Q&A below)

This circular comes into effect on 23rd November 2007.

To facilitate understanding of the circular, the Department of Social

Security provides a list of answers to practical issues that EU

nationals might arise.[/quote]

[Sunday Driver]

6) Can E106 holders automatically have access to CMU upon expiry of their form?

Only those inactive EU citizens who meet the following two conditions may, if they wish, benefit from CMU de Base:

- resident in France before 23 November 2007;

- hold or have held an E106.

For the others, access to CMU is not permitted and when their E106 expires, these persons must arrange health cover for themselves in order to continue to be legally resident.

 

 

[Clair]

[quote user="cooperlola"]http://www.securite-sociale.fr/comprendre/europe/europe/cmu_inactifs.htm

 Edit :This appears to me to be the key paragraph for E106 expirees:

6) Les personnes titulaires d’un formulaire E 106 pourront-elles accéder mécaniquement à la CMU à l'expiration de la durée de validité de leur formulaire ?

Seuls les ressortissants communautaires inactifs qui répondent aux deux conditions suivantes pourront bénéficier de la CMU de base s'ils le souhaitent :

- résider en France avant le 23 novembre 2007

- être titulaire ou avoir été titulaire d'un E 106

Pour les autres, l'accès à la CMU de base n'étant pas permis, ces personnes devront se doter d'une couverture maladie pour continuer à être régulières au séjour, à l'expiration de leur formulaire E 106.[/quote]

What is says...

[quote]6) Will E106 holders have automatic access to the CMU upon expiry of their E106 form?

Only those inactive EU nationals who fulfill  the following conditions will  benefit from the CMU-b if they so desire:

•  they must have been in residence in France before November 23, 2007
•  they must hold or have held an E 106

All others will have

to acquire private health cover for their stay to continue to be lawful on expiry of their E 106, as they will not be allowed access to CMU-b.[/quote]

[Boiling a frog]

Does this mean that they have back tracked on their last statement which said that EVERYONE residing in France on 23rd Nov could join CMU as it appears now that only

People residing for more than 5 years

or

People in CMU on 23rd Nov

or

People residing in France on 23rd Nov with an E106 or who previously had an E106

 

will be eligible

[cooperlola]

BaF, the health minister has never said that everybody who was here on 23rd Nov (who is eligible - ie pre-retired/without E form cover etc) could apply to join - only the Embassy said that.  Her January letter referred to E106 holders only, although the Embassy interpreted this to mean that everybody was covered.  We are still concerned about 2 specific groups of people (there may be more whom we have not thought of, of course) and they are E109 holders who may lose their entitlements at some time in the future and E121 holders who have cover by dint of being in receipt of UK ICB, who may also lose this, if they should lose the ICB.  They may indeed have been legally resident before 23rd November '07, but are not covered by either the minister's letter, or the new statement.

[makfai]

[quote user="Clair"]
For those who cannot demonstrate 5 years of regular and uninterrupted stay, access to the CMU can only be given when, having acquired a right to reside, such nationals are experiencing an accident of life leading them to lose their resources or their health insurance.

[/quote]

I am afraid this statement needs to be challenged.This wording is not acceptable as it stands as it is not supported by FACT. 

The reason that 5 year residents get access to the CMU is that they become permanent residents and therefore have the same rights as French Nationals. What is wrong with this current statement is that it implies that the only way of becoming a Permanent Resident is via the 5 year rule....this IS NOT CORRECT. 

I am sorry to say that whoever has been writing this stuff at the French Govt end needs another kick!!

The Right of Permanent Residence is contained in Chapter IV of the EU Directive.  This has been transposed into French law. The 5 year rule is contained in Chapter IV (at Article 16)  BUT it is not the only way in that Chapter by which permanent residence may be obtained.  It would, therefore, be unlawful for the French Govt to say that it is only persons who achieve a right of residence by way of the 5 year rule who are eligible to join the CMU. . .ALL the categories in Chapter IV are eligible because permanent residents must have equal treatment.

Will FHI take this up with the Embassy and FHM?

 

 

 

[Boiling a frog]

I would suggest that the statement is correct The only way for an INACTIVE person to gain the right of permenant residence is after 5 years uninterupted residence. After 5 years they can then, if they are inactive , have the right to access to health care via CMU.

The other category's are workers and their families.,not inactives.Workers and their families do not access healthcare via CMU so why should the minister address that issue.The issue was inactives being excluded from health care via CMU .No worker or their family has been excluded from health care in France

[cooperlola]

Certainly, BaF, the circular here is specifically for inactifs.  In fact, on closer analysis, the only change to the circular is specifically for E106 holders who were resident before the November cut-off date.  It is significant, I think, that on the previous occasion, the accompanying guidelines issued to CPAMs were very detailed in suggesting that anybody with any work history must be treated in the normal way, and not under these specific provisions.  Until we see the detail, all is not clear yet, as far as I can see.  But certainly, Makfai, there remain a number of holes in the statement which have yet to be addressed!  Just when you thought it was safe to go back into the water....

[makfai]

[quote user="Boiling a frog"]

I would suggest that the statement is correct The only way for an INACTIVE person to gain the right of permanent residence is after 5 years uninterupted residence. After 5 years they can then, if they are inactive , have the right to access to health care via CMU.

The other category's are workers and their families.,not inactives.Workers and their families do not access healthcare via CMU so why should the minister address that issue.The issue was inactives being excluded from health care via CMU .No worker or their family has been excluded from health care in France

[/quote]

 

I maintain it is incorrect in its present form. Article 17 is entitled

Article 17

Exemptions for persons no longer working in the host Member State and their family members

and contains the exemptions to the 5 year rule.  You can't mention acquiring residence under the 5 year rule in the context of eligibility to access to the CMU without mentioning the entitlement of those 'persons no longer working in the host Member State and their family members'.  Is a person who has given up work INACTIVE?  If we can debate this then so will the CPAMs - I think it needs clarification now.  All they have to do is change the specific reference to the 5 year rule to one referring to lawful acquisition of permanent residence.

 

[cooperlola]

I am curious about this (you have an e-mail from me).  My understanding has always been that if you were employed in France, you were not eligible for CMU entry but must be in a scheme related to your employment.  I had always been under the impression that CMU was for those most specifically not covered by any other scheme.  And thus, the statement still seems correct to me - you cannot join CMU if previously employed - only your work-based scheme.

[makfai]

[quote user="cooperlola"]I am curious about this (you have an e-mail from me).  My understanding has always been that if you were employed in France, you were not eligible for CMU entry but must be in a scheme related to your employment.  I had always been under the impression that CMU was for those most specifically not covered by any other scheme.  And thus, the statement still seems correct to me - you cannot join CMU if previously employed - only your work-based scheme.[/quote]

You are the expert so if you are (as you say ) convinced that: 'you cannot join CMU if previously employed - only your work-based scheme'  then I accept what you say.

[cooperlola]

As I say, this is my understanding only.  It would be interesting to hear from people who are employed here (gite owners, business owners) to find out their take on this.  When they retire (early or at French state age) whom do they expect to get their healthcare from - work based schemes or CMU?