statins

[5-element]

[quote user="Dick Smith"]

There is evidence that altering cholestorol levels through diet alone is rather unlikely, so statins are the first line of defense.
[/quote]

Is this a generality, Dick, or just in your own case?

I have first hand evidence of dietary change producing such a significant alteration in cholesterol levels, that statins were no longer considered necessary. However, many people with high cholesterol levels due to other medical issues, or with a genetic predisposition, cannot alter their cholesterol levels significantly without statins, that much is true.

Also, it depends on how high your total cholesterol is, and the HDL/LDL ratio, and how high the Triglycerides are.

For many people, statins seems to be the only option for the time being, and as has been stated, you should discuss the issue at length and in detail with your medical practitioner - hoping that they really do keep up with the latest research.

[Pixie Toadstool]

I don't think statins have much effect on triglycerides - one of the best things for that is fish oil.  I used to sell a product called Maxepa which was essentially fish oils (eicosapentaenoic and docosahexaenoic acids).  Triglycerides are raised considerably by a high sugar diet and alcohol consumption usually pushes them up too.

HDL/LDL ratio is VERY important - much more than the absolute cholesterol level.

I think the reasons statins are given rather than diet is that (as for obesity) it is very difficult for most people to change their lifestyle.  You deserve congratulations for being able to make the change through diet alone (5-element).

Genetic factors are very important.  My husband lives almost exclusively on cream, butter, alcohol, red meat and the odd vegetable and he has a very low cholesterol level and a very good HDL/LDL ratio.  A good idea is to look at your parents medical history to work out your chances of suffering from heart disease.  My husband's parents were/are long lived and so were his grandparents.

As someone else said, there are complex causative factors for heart disease and there is much more interest in inflammatory causes at the moment.  There are some big trials going on out there looking at this - and by the way - who is funding it?  Why the pharmaceutical industry mostly!!

Pix

[suzy]

Try this site when checking out the research behind the headlines

http://www.library.nhs.uk/rss/newsAndRssArchive.aspx?storyCategory=0

Sue

 

[suzy]

sorry, link wasn't correct.

try

www.library.nhs.uk  click on link to Hitting the Headlines on the left

Sue

 

[Chris]

I have just read through the posts on statins.  I have always suffered from high bad readings. In spite of regualr exercise in the military and after and careful diet, nothing made any difference.  In France my Dr prescribed simvastatin which worked like dream until I complained about leg 'cramps'.  He immediately prescribed LIPANTHYL - Fenofibrate, which I understand is not one of the statin molecules.  My levels remain within limits.  My diet has not changed ie it remains low fat as much as possible, except when dining out from time to time.  The leg cramps have gone and all seems fine.  I post this in case it may benefit those who would like an alternative to statins to suggest to their Dr.

Chris

[pip24]

I have just checked the Patient Information Leaflet on Simvastatin and Atorvastatin.They both state that very rare side effects are fewer than 1 in 10,000 but for common side effects, affect at least 100 in 10,000.

I read somewhere that the body produces 80% of the cholesterol and that the other 20% is from food so does that make it that only 20% can be controlled by diet ?

For anyone that is inquisitive about statin effects this is my experience.

I take 80mg Simvastatin at the moment. The side effects that I get are the muscle pain / joint pain /stiffness / ankle swelling. when I was on 40 mg Atorvastatin my problems were much more troublesome. I had the above conditions plus severe mid afternoon energy level loss and worst of all what could be described as memory loss but the consultant described not as memory loss but as concentration loss. ( On one occassion failing to pay for petrol after I had been approached by someone wanting directions. Another occassion when drawing money out of an ATM . I was distracted by someone on the next ATM, I took my card but left £150 waiting to be taken. Lucky for me the money was purged back into the ATM and I later got my money back. When I got home from the Petrol station I found my fuel flap open and petrol cap missing and realised what I had done. I went back to pay for the petrol, the cashier was very good about it, even shook my hand.He gave me the receipt which had Drive Off written on it.  I still keep the receipt ! )  I am sure there are a lot of people that take statins and have side effects but put them down to being age related.

I have taken statins now for nearly ten years, the side effects started to creep in after about 2 years. It's a funny thing but even when the dose was increased the side effects havn't seemed to increase with it ! 

One observation that I do when out at colleague reunions or just at a restaurant is that after being sat down for an hour and a half and people get up to go to the loo, the ones on statins are usually much slower to get up and get into their stride.This is sometimes disguised by Jacket buttoning / trouser rubbing / tie straightening or other procrastination.

I feel sure that some of the above points will be familiar with some people.

I complained to the consultant about the side effects. He explained other effects to me about not taking statins and asked me to make a choice ! . I did ! I am still here plus aches etc.

I cant't say it was the right decision or the wrong decision as my condition ran parallel with two friends who both gave up on the statins due to muscle problems etc.Pleased to say that they are both still with us and  have to admit that they are both a lot fitter than me.

Ultimately the choice is yours.

 

 

[Quillan]

There are about six (types not makes) statins and if you have a problem with one then get your doctor to change you to another, there is usually one that will work with you. There are some people unfortunately that manage to try all six and still have problems in which case there is nothing further to be done except strict dieting etc.

[flittle]

There are non statin drugs available to control cholesterol.  Ezetrol and Niaspan to name two.

Frank

[Russethouse]

Pip, I hate to mention this but I am much more forgetful than I used to be and suffer from mid afternoon lethargy too - I don't so much as take as aspirin.(no ongoing conditions to worry about))[:)]

On the other hand my husband is on the same statin as you and has none of the symptoms mentioned in this thread - he must just be lucky that it suits him.[:)]

[flittle]

You may find this link interesting.

http://www.network54.com/Forum/281849/message/1127833757/Dr+Beatrice+Golomb+MD+PhD+and+DR+GRAVELINE+on+STATIN+DRUGS

Frank

[Pixie Toadstool]

I have had a look at the website you recommended, Flittle.  I would say Dr. Golomb gave more reasoned advice than the second doctor (Dr. Graveline).  Bear in mind also that these doctors are talking about their perspective in the USA and it has certainly been my opinion that drug companies are a lot more influential and powerful in the USA than they are in the UK.  Another thing to bear in mind though in the USA is that, as most people's health care is provided by their insurance companies, the insurance companies (who hold the purse-strings) won't be keen on people being over-prescribed a drug which doesn't work - it does not tie up with basic economics - they are not going to be happy to give their money to the pharmaceutical companies without good financial reason.  However, I don't know how many companies give back handers to insurance companies to recommend that only their product be used.  I think this does happen but it won't mean that more people will be prescribed statins.  I believe that the pharmaceutical industry in the UK is much more closely regulated, so this conspiracy theory is less likely here (though I agree, not impossible).

The question about whether statins cause side effects and particularly amnesia (which Dr Graveline talked about) is a difficult one.  The only way to find out whether the statins do cause these problems is to carry out a large study with half the patients on placebo and the other half on statins with neither the doctor nor patient knowing which is being taken.  This is the only way to rule out the placebo effect.  A large consideration is that people taking statins tend to be more middle aged and I think most people and doctors agree that our cognitive abilities start to decline, probably around the age of about 50.  For myself and my cohort of friends who are in our 40s and 50s - most of us agree that we are not quite as bright as we used to be and that we ache more when we get up, especially after a bit of exercise and that we just can't grasp things like we used to.  We are more forgetful too!  Now had we been on statins we would have attributed those effects to statins but we aren't so we can't - we must look for another cause!  For me, the muscle aching came on very quickly when I gave up smoking when I was 41 and the forgetfulness really started to set in last year (I was 50 last September). 

Another thing is that heart disease has multiple causes which when put together have more than an additive effect.  So it makes even more sense to reduce as many causes as you can.  Cholesterol IS necessary for the body but we only need so much of it.  Too much cholesterol (bad LDL cholesterol) gets laid down in our arteries.  However, there is good cholesterol too (HDL) which moves round the arteries literally mopping up the bad cholesterol and taking it out of the system.  Cholesterol which is laid down and is not removed eventually forms a hard lump called a plaque - this is the bit that can break off and lodge in your coronary artery and cause a myocardial infarction (heart attack) or a pulmonary embolism or a certain type of stroke.  There are also things like twitchy arteries which can make it more likely that a plaque breaks off.  Inflammation can contribute to the process.  Then you have to add other things like stress, family history, other toxins floating around the body to the equation.  High triglycerides are another blood fat which are increasingly being considered important.  Diabetics typically have very high levels of these as do alcoholics and people who have a high carbohydrate (particularly sugar) diet - so it is also a good idea to limit your intake of refined sugars as well as refined fats and for goodness sake lay off the hydrogenated fat - that is a real killer!

By the way, Ezetrol is not recommended as a first line treatment for lowering cholesterol since there are not enough trials to convince the authorities of its safety or efficacy - so it is only used as an add-in therapy to statins for patients whose cholesterol is still too high.  Niaspan is nicotinic acid by another name - which is actually very effective at reducing cholesterol - particularly the bad (LDL) cholesterol but it causes unpleasant side effects of hot facial flushing which put most people off taking it.  I think it has a number of other unpleasant side effects too althouth I don't believe any of them are dangerous.  Fibrates are the old type of drug (used for years) but which aren't anywhere near as effective as statins at lowering your cholesterol.

Here endeth another sermon!

Pix

[flittle]

A little more information on Atorvastatin(Lipitor) that Pip24 was taking.

http://www.commonvoice.com/article.asp?colid=5753

On the subject of Ezetrol.

http://www.pharmamedics.com/Ezetrol-10-mg-pr-340-c-98.html

Frank

[Gardengirl]

Is it possible that moving to a slightly lower dose of simvastatin could help those who are having side effects, or who are concerned for various reasons about being on statins? My OH had a heart attack in Nov, & was put on simvastatin, although his cholesterol levels have never been very high, under 2.5. He has just been for his check-up with the GP & has had his dose cut. He was put on 1 x 40mg tablet daily by the cardiac consultant at our local hospital, & is now on 1 x 20mg tablet. Some have spoken on here about being on 80mg, which seems very high by comparison. Maybe this is something to discuss with the GP?

My last cholesterol reading was 6.5, although I was not put on medication. My parents & brothers have all had high levels of cholesterol, & they have had a lot of cardiac problems as well. I have to have an angiogram next week, & am expecting to be put on statins, so this discussion is very much of interest just now!

Jo 

[flittle]

Anyone who wishes to delve further into the question of heart problems and treatments can download this ebook free.

http://www4.dr-rath-foundation.org/THE_FOUNDATION/About_Dr_Matthias_Rath/why_book.html

Frank

[flittle]

More information here.

http://www.naturalnews.com/022374.html

Frank

[lorna]

Statins were in the news yesterday:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/7326870.stm