5 year rule ??

[Ubill]

I am planning on retiring in France (next year), so I have been doing much research on my options for

requisite (to apply for my visa de long sejour) health coverage (HC). At this point I well understand my situation

for this initial requisite HC. However I have frequently come across mention of a "5 year rule" pertaining to permanent

legal residency in France (which is my intended goal).  Typically such mention goes like:

"..... the 5 year rule under which if you have been legally resident and fully covered for HC for 5 years, and you have no

other cover such as via an S1, then you become entitled to join the health systems without further qualifications"

This would nominally eventually apply to me, yet I have only found such anecdotal mention. Could someone explain this

"rule" in more detail as to whom it categorically pertains, and under what circumstances? Or, point me to some official description?

I am a non-EU citizen, with no previous history of residing in, working in, or contributing to cotations, etc. in France.

many thanks,

[AnOther]

I stand to be corrected but AFAIK the rule does not apply to non EU citizens.

[mint]

I am of Ano's opinion too.

There was an American living near our previous house who used to go on a bit about, HC, capital gains and the French inheritance laws (the OH had children from a previous marriage).

[YCCMB]

Cas particuliers

Certaines personnes ne peuvent pas bénéficier de la CMU de base, notamment parce qu'elles relèvent déjà d'un autre régime obligatoire d'assurance maladie. C'est le cas par exemple si vous êtes :

rattaché à un régime obligatoire d'assurance maladie spécifique (étudiants, ministres des cultes, artistes auteurs, détenus...) ;

membre du personnel diplomatique et consulaire, ou fonctionnaire d'un État étranger et personne assimilée, en poste en France ainsi que les membres de votre famille qui vous accompagnent ;

venu en France pour suivre un traitement médical ou une cure ;

agent retraité d'une organisation internationale non titulaire d'une pension de source française , ainsi que les membres de votre famille ;

ressortissant de nationalité étrangère titulaire d'une carte de séjour « retraité » ;

From what little you have told us, it would appear that the last of the above applies to you, so you would not be allowed to benefit at all from CMU, however long you live in France.

[Ubill]

[quote user="You can call me Betty"]Cas particuliers

Certaines personnes ne peuvent pas bénéficier de la CMU de base, notamment parce qu'elles relèvent déjà d'un autre régime obligatoire d'assurance maladie. C'est le cas par exemple si vous êtes :

rattaché à un régime obligatoire d'assurance maladie spécifique (étudiants, ministres des cultes, artistes auteurs, détenus...) ;

membre du personnel diplomatique et consulaire, ou fonctionnaire d'un État étranger et personne assimilée, en poste en France ainsi que les membres de votre famille qui vous accompagnent ;

venu en France pour suivre un traitement médical ou une cure ;

agent retraité d'une organisation internationale non titulaire d'une pension de source française , ainsi que les membres de votre famille ;

ressortissant de nationalité étrangère titulaire d'une carte de séjour « retraité » ;

From what little you have told us, it would appear that the last of the above applies to you, so you would not be allowed to benefit at all from CMU, however long you live in France.[/quote]

Merci de vos avis

Et d'ou vienait ces renseignements?

[idun]

http://www.ameli.fr/assures/soins-et-remboursements/cmu-et-complementaires-sante/cmu-de-base-une-assurance-maladie-pour-tous/les-conditions-pour-en-beneficier.php

Looks like it is there and here.

http://vosdroits.service-public.fr/particuliers/F2672.xhtml

[YCCMB]

Sorry....it's a complete nightmare trying to do links off an iPad

[idun]

I used to copy and

paste and it worked, but I cannot anymore and the 'link' thing on

here doesn't work either. I'll try again

http://www.ameli.fr/assures/soins-et-remboursements/cmu-et-complementaires-sante/cmu-de-base-une-assurance-maladie-pour-tous/les-conditions-pour-en-beneficier.php

http://vosdroits.service-public.fr/particuliers/F2672.xhtml

[Sprogster]

Ubill, as a non EU citizen you can apply as a retiree for a long stay visa, but this prohibits employment. This visa, which is subject to periodic renewal requires a medical prior to arrival, evidence of comprehensive private medical insurance and adequate financial means.

The 5 year rule and S! is only relevant to long term (more than 10 years) EU resident retirees or early retirees, who are moving from one EU country to another, as there is an agreement between EU countries to pay for the health care costs of their retirees living in another EU member state.

As a non EU citizen if you have not contributed to social security in an EU member State for a minimum of 10 years you will not qualify for an S1 when you retire, and will have to rely on private health insurance and obtain a long stay visa which is more difficult than it used to be I believe.

[nomoss]

Ubill. There is a possibility that you could become a naturalised French citizen after five years, or less in some circumstances. If you were a French-speaking Canadian, for example. See [url]http://vosdroits.service-public.fr/particuliers/N111.xhtml[/url]

[EuroTrash]

Seems a bit extreme, changing nationality just to get state health cover which isn't 100% in any case, and might end up costing as much or more, due to liability for CSG tax on private income by virtue of being in the state system, than he would have paid for private health insurance

[nomoss]

[quote user="EuroTrash"]Seems a bit extreme, changing nationality just to get state health cover which isn't 100% in any case, and might end up costing as much or more, due to liability for CSG tax on private income by virtue of being in the state system, than he would have paid for private health insurance[/quote]

I think the cost of a mutuelle would be far less than private insurance, and I don't believe residents here from countries outside the EU, or without taxation treaties with France, are exempt from CSG on any income. I am certainly liable for CSG on bank interest I receive from outside France, for example.

[Debra]

[quote user="Sprogster"]The 5 year rule and S! is only relevant to long term (more than 10 years) EU resident retirees or early retirees, who are moving from one EU country to another, as there is an agreement between EU countries to pay for the health care costs of their retirees living in another EU member state.[/quote]I'm not sure what that bit was about, Sprogster, but five years is five years so you don't need to be here more than ten to be classed as a permanent resident under the five year rule - and in any case, for healthcare, the CPAM have reverted to the three month rule now, whereby you can join the CMU as long as you're legally resident.  Legally resident meaning you have a stable residence and have sufficient income to be sure you don't become a burden upon the state.  (the RSA plafond for your family composition)

[EuroTrash]

I think Sprogster meant you have to have been a long term resident in an EU country, ie since the OP has not lived in an EU state for long enough for it to become his competent state, therefore he is not covered by agreements between EU states.

As you say the big difference between the 3 month rule and the 5 year rule is the sufficient income criterion. After 5 years this ceases to be enforceable, so even if you admit to being as poor as a church mouse and needing CMU-C, you can't be refused just so long as you can show that for the previous 5 years you had adequate health cover in place and weren't at any point in a position where you could have become a burden on the state.

[Debra]

Yes - and proving that and also that you're not entitled to healthcare from anywhere else can take a lot of effort and time.  CPAM aren't too bad but CAF is my personal nightmare.