sky dish

[Robbie34]

Just to add to my previous post.  It could possibly be interpreted from EU legislation that Sky might be acting illegally by switching off Freesat cards of viewers within the European Union.  See [2] below and the final paragraph.

"In accordance with the responsibilities granted it under Article 211 EC with regard to its mission to ensure the proper functioning and development of the Single Market, the Commission's aim in this communication is to contribute, in the light of existing principles, to legal certainty and provide a useful reference source for users, economic players and national governments. In particular, it wishes to eliminate real or potential obstacles to the use of satellite dishes for receiving cross-border services, and thus put a stop to the increasing number of infringement proceedings.

Although each Member State is responsible for setting the conditions which must be met within its internal legal system for installing and using satellite dishes, some national regulations may nonetheless affect what can be received. Thus, indirectly, they affect distribution of the wide range of services transmitted by satellite - which, by their very nature, cross borders - such as television and radio broadcasts, together with interactive services ("information society services"). Such national measures must therefore comply with the fundamental principles of the Treaty, such as the free movement of goods and the freedom to provide services within the Single Market, enshrined in Articles 28 [2] to 30 and Articles 49 [3] et seq. of the EC Treaty.

[2] Article 28: "Quantitative restrictions on imports and all measures having equivalent effect shall be prohibited between Member States."

[3] Article 49 (1): "Within the framework of the provisions set out below, restrictions on freedom to provide services within the Community shall be prohibited in respect of nationals of Member States who are established in a State of the Community other than that of the person for whom the services are intended."

The large number of complaints, petitions and requests for information received by the Commission both from individuals and from other institutions [4] proves that there is increasing interest in this subject. The Commission does not, for the moment, intend to initiate any specific legislation. However, it does feel that it would be useful to provide, through this document, its own analysis of the scope and the effect of the fundamental principles of free movement of goods and services, as set out in the Treaty and interpreted by the case law of the Court of Justice, on national rules governing the conditions of use of satellite dishes.

[4] See, for example, Parliamentary written questions 1759/97, 4114/98, 99/2216, 01/718 and 01/883.

The Commission will keep in constant touch and exchange information with individuals and the affected parties (businesses, national and Community authorities) to provide a follow-up to the guidelines in this communication. If necessary, it will take any initiative required to eliminate or nip in the bud any obstacles to the proper functioning of the Single Market in this area."

[Anton Redman]

[quote user="le bouffon"]If it is against the law, civil or crimminal it is against the law,bet you install tv`s.ps ask Sky if you can view tv using any of their packages here in France and see what they say,this are been done to death and you my friend are WRONG.[/quote]

There is a difference and no amount of shouting will make it go away. Breach of contract a civil matter in which damages if appropriate can be awarded by a court or can even be agreed in advance in the form of liquidated damages. You cannot be convicted of breach of contract.

Trespassers can be sued for damages, they can have injunctions taken out against them and then and only then may be in contempt of court for breaking those injunctions Trespassers contrary to thousands of signs dotted up and down the UK cannot be prosecuted.

[Will]

As Mr Bouffon always used to remind us, under a previous identity, he is here in France. So presumably he is thinking about the law in France, which does not make the same distinction between civil and criminal matters (as I mentioned in an earlier post). Whether English or French law applies to Sky TV watched in France I have no idea and no doubt lawyers, both real and armchair variety, could debate it for eons hence.

I just feel sorry for the person who originally asked the question, all he wanted to do was watch the telly, not be harangued as a potential lawbreaker. Perhaps it shows the value of reading the FAQs or doing a search before commiting finger to keyboard.

[Quillan]

The document quoted is not law as it clearly states "The Commission does not, for the moment, intend to initiate any specific legislation.".

The terms and conditions of a Sky card is that it must be registered to an address within the United Kingdom. Under the legally binding contract you have signed you are obliged to tell them where the card is. If the card is not at the address registered then as the card belongs to Sky and not the person using it then it is deamed by Sky to be stolen. You therefore have a civil case to answer for breaking yourcontract with them and you then have a criminal case to answr to in that you have effectivly stolen it.

Even if the EU did make their proposal EU law that does not mean the UK has to also make it law just in the same way as other EU members do not accept all EU laws.

Do you (Robbie34) have a Sky card in France? If so you tell Sky then and see what they do, you quote at them what you have quoted here and tell them you are taking them to court, they will p1ss them selves laughing all the way to the pub AFTER they have deactivated your card of course.

Yes you are right Will and I for one am sorry, it just annoys me when people stand up and say it's white when it's clear to so many that it's actually black. You shall hear no more from me on this subject in the forum although I am VERY willing to carry on in private.

[le bouffon]

My first reply was to point someone to setting themselves up with a dish and box that would would recieve some english tv,the E34 for a dish cable(now off offer,at around E65) and box that I posted from brico depot will do that when pointed to astra 2,and is very very easy to set up as nearly all the boxes that are on the market have a built in signal strengh reviever,so there is no need what so ever to pay a small fortune to some so called engineer to set it up.

[Robbie34]

I fear you have misunderstood the point of my post.  I never said that Sky were breaking the law as such, but that the directive suggested they were in breech of the directive.  Interestingly, Sky are breaking EU law in as much as they have not supplied a CAM that other manufacturers can use in receivers other than those specified by Sky.  Other operators in Europe were compelled to allow manufacturers to fit suitable modules in their digiboxes.  Why Sky have been allowed to get away with I can only surmise.

The Theft Act  states that "a person is guilty of theft if he dishonestly appropriates property belonging to another with the intention of permanently depriving the other of it."  To be arrested and charged with the theft of a Sky card, which you obtained perfectly legally, is too ludicrous to contemplate.  If Sky demanded its return they would have to resort to civil litigation if you refused to hand it back.  They could only sue you for the value of the card, perhaps £20 which is what they charge for a Freesat card.

Parts of the directive relating to the single market are law, and cover satellite reception in the EU. 

Yes, I do have a Sky card in France, and I have no intention of informing Sky because I'm quite aware that it would be switched off.  I do not have the wealth and resources to challenge Sky. For you to suggest I do that is absurd.  It's quite possible that the EC will eventually bring Sky to task for breeching the single market directive.  However, when, and if they do, is anyone's guess. 

[le bouffon]

Brico marche are now doing the whole kit(dish, remote, box etc)for E34.99 which will pick up astra2 and therefore pick up all the BBC tv and radio with out the need for a SKY contract,easy to install also.

[Brilec]

Amazing, they will be paying you to take them away soon. What size of dish did that include?

[Deimos]

[quote user="le bouffon"]Brico marche are now doing the whole kit(dish, remote, box etc)for E34.99 which will pick up astra2 and therefore pick up all the BBC tv and radio with out the need for a SKY contract,easy to install also.[/quote]

At that price, out of interest what channels can you get. I'm already an un-convicted criminal (cannot insert smiley here due to browser limitations) - I'm not particularly concerned about UK TV - anything else interesting from elsewhere ?

Ian

[le bouffon]

Read my last post on this thread.

[Deimos]

[quote user="le bouffon"]Read my last post on this thread.[/quote]

Sorry. I wont bother to get one if all you can get is BBC tv and radio. I would have expected a few other stations but maybe that’s why they are so cheap (must be a limited market for BBC tv and radio in France).

Ian

[Quillan]

My friend has one of these and you can pick up a lot of different stuff but most is not in English. You can get all the BBC channels plus ITV1,2,3,4 but not Channel 4 or 5 although I believe the latter are to be transmitted un encoded next year. As was explained last year in a post the reason they have gone and are going this route is because Sky charge them an arm and a leg to use their encription system and they now consider it to be a waste of money.

[le bouffon]

Even the most basic SKY package is a load of rubbish and so is the next one up,load of repeats,last night went through the lot and found nowt to see,all for 20 quid a month.............

[ngh1]

Well thanks for the advice. Things do get a bit heated dont they.

 

[Fridgeman]

Hi NGH1

Lets turn down the HEAT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If you need to see Channel 4 / 5 you will need a sly box (IMO correct spelling)

If you can do without 4 / 5 any digital box will get BBC / ITV Channels, some boxes are better than others.

Use a 80cm dish and motorise it with a decent motor, (remember it is out in all weathers and a cheapo one will not last) about £70, will get you over 5000 channels ........ yes 5000 is correct, in a multitude of languages.

 

I've posted this info many times.

 

Bonne Chance & Happy Viewing