Moving Channels on a Sky Box

[Quillan]

Having tried removing my Sky card and seeing how many channels I get I am about to cancel by card. My problem is that these channels are all over the place and I wanted to know if I can shuffle them around so they run in sequence starting from channel 1. If I can do this how do I do it?

Another alternative I thought of would be to buy a digital sat box from the Brico and use that if I can also get ordinary French TV plus the channels that need no card from Sky as well. If I can then can I select what program is on what channels number? Our teresteral TV is really bad here due to a rather large mountain. I watch TV5 but you can't get that with no card.

[Clair]

[quote user="Quillan"]

Having tried removing my Sky card and seeing how many channels I get I am about to cancel by card. My problem is that these channels are all over the place and I wanted to know if I can shuffle them around so they run in sequence starting from channel 1. If I can do this how do I do it?

Another alternative I thought of would be to buy a digital sat box from the Brico and use that if I can also get ordinary French TV plus the channels that need no card from Sky as well. If I can then can I select what program is on what channels number? Our teresteral TV is really bad here due to a rather large mountain. I watch TV5 but you can't get that with no card.

[/quote]

If you cancel your subscription, you'll get all BBC channels, all ITV channels and loads more useless channels. If you swap your Sky dish for  a French dish, you'll loose C4 and Five.

With a dual head French dish, you can get all the above (except C4 and Five) plus the French channels. You can also shuffle the channels to appear in any sequence you want.

This is just a rough idea, but we have a French dual-head dish bought at Bricorama for about €80 and receive all these.

Re Sky channels:

If you do have not already done so, you can select your favourite channels by setting up your blue button to scroll through those channels you prefer having at your fingertips...

To do so: take your remote, press Services, then 4, then press your yellow button to select and tick your favourite channels in the list (up to 20 max). When you've finished your selection, just press the Select button to confirm, then the Sky button to exit back to your TV screen.

Now pressing your Blue button will bring up your favouites channels in the info bar on your screen.

[Martin963]

Mr Murdoch has kindly designed his boxes to be as awkward to use for anything other than Sky as possible.  All you can do is use the favourites function to weed out the myriad channels you don't want/can't use,  and even that is fairly klutzy.

The problem with buying a box is which satellite to point it too.  For the UK stuff you need Astra 2 at 28 deg east,  if you are a fan of TV5 it's free on Astra 1 (19 deg E) or Hotbird (13 deg E);  if - as you doubtless do - you want the main national French channels you will need AB3 at 5 deg west,  where the public channels are free digitally (for the moment) and TF1 and M6 are free in analogue SECAM.

If you don't want 4 dishes (which is what we have both in Devon and 24) then you need a motorised dish......

It's a real casse-tete I'm afraid.  

[Martin963]

Sorry Clair,  you beat me to it.

But presumably you don't get much French stuff (apart from TV5) FTA on Astra 1...?  Not the main French terrestrials for example....

And do watch out,  some of those dual tete systems are only for a 6 deg separation - and for Astra 2/Astra 1 you need 9 degrees.

[Quillan]

Clare - Sorry I am not quite with you on one point. You said if I change the dish, well I have a French dish connected to my Sky box and that works OK with or without by Sky card inserted and I get all the UK terestrial channels, radio and then the junk. Did you by anychance mean the box? Does anyone know why you can't get Channel 5 with a French box, just out of interest.

General - I was under the impression from somewhere that you can swap BBC reginal channels around i.e. you could swap channel 101 from BBC SE to say BBC Wales. What I want to do is have channels run insequence like BBC 1,2,3,4 followed by ITV1,2,3,4 etc. So if I read correctly can I not swap say Sky One with say ITV2?

It seems I need to buy a French box and extra dish to get French TV then, not a problem. What about an old Canall+ box, do they work the same way as a Sky box i.e. you can loose the card but still get the basic terestrial channels?

 

 

[Martin963]

The nationality of the dish doesn't matter (!) - it's where it's pointing.  Yours is pointing at Astra 2 at the moment.  It gets TV5 because that's part of a Sky subscription.

A French Brico**** box (MPEG 2 Free to Air) would get all the BBC,  ITV,  radio and other free to air,  including junk with a dish pointing at Astra 2.  It WON'T get ch 4 ch 5 or Sky subscription programmes because it does not contain a VIDEOGUARD decryption system.   Videoguard is jealously guarded by Murdoch,  European law says that he should allow it to be incorporated on other manufacturers' boxes,  he refuses.   A French purchased FTA box would also NOT get TV5 from Astra2,  but it WOULD get TV5 if you had a dish on Astra 1.   

http://www.lyngsat.com/freetv/France.html

You can get the other BBC regions on chs 941 onwards on a Sky box,  and the other ITV regions using the "other channel" function.   But you can't re-order the channel listings on a Sky box.   You can on practically any other box,  but you would of course then be without Sky 1 etc,  ch 4, ch 5 etc.  A supermarket box will probably show all the BBC and ITV regions automatically and you could re-order them however you like.

As far as I know an old Canalsatellite box and card will not get the "terrestrial" channels via Astra 1.   I think the card is de-activated completely.  And because the public funded channels are encrypted on Astra 1 then without the card you won't get them.   Actually I'm surprised you've got one as Canalsatellite prefer you to rent them (at least that's what I thought).

Sorry I've answered your question rather than Clare!

[Clair]

[quote user="Quillan"]Clare - Sorry I am not quite with you on one point. You said if I change the dish, well I have a French dish connected to my Sky box and that works OK with or without by Sky card inserted and I get all the UK terestrial channels, radio and then the junk. Did you by anychance mean the box? Does anyone know why you can't get Channel 5 with a French box, just out of interest.

General - I was under the impression from somewhere that you can swap BBC reginal channels around i.e. you could swap channel 101 from BBC SE to say BBC Wales. What I want to do is have channels run insequence like BBC 1,2,3,4 followed by ITV1,2,3,4 etc. So if I read correctly can I not swap say Sky One with say ITV2?

It seems I need to buy a French box and extra dish to get French TV then, not a problem. What about an old Canall+ box, do they work the same way as a Sky box i.e. you can loose the card but still get the basic terestrial channels?[/quote]

Sorry Quillan, my mistake, I should have said "if you change the BOX (not dish)...

You cannot swap channels in the Sky listing but you can include say BBC Wales in your favourite channels.

I have listed my channels as you describe on my French box.

My TV is cnnected to a French dual-head digital (numérique) dish as well as an aerial, so I can view all French terrestrial channels as well as digital French (and other) channels.

I don't think you can use your Sky card in a Canal+ box as they use totally different encryption systems and the Canal+ box would not recognise you Sky card.

[Quillan]

[quote user="Martinwatkins"]

The nationality of the dish doesn't matter (!) - it's where it's pointing.  Yours is pointing at Astra 2 at the moment.  It gets TV5 because that's part of a Sky subscription.

A French Brico**** box (MPEG 2 Free to Air) would get all the BBC,  ITV,  radio and other free to air,  including junk with a dish pointing at Astra 2.  It WON'T get ch 4 ch 5 or Sky subscription programmes because it does not contain a VIDEOGUARD decryption system.   Videoguard is jealously guarded by Murdoch,  European law says that he should allow it to be incorporated on other manufacturers' boxes,  he refuses.   A French purchased FTA box would also NOT get TV5 from Astra2,  but it WOULD get TV5 if you had a dish on Astra 1.   

http://www.lyngsat.com/freetv/France.html

You can get the other BBC regions on chs 941 onwards on a Sky box,  and the other ITV regions using the "other channel" function.   But you can't re-order the channel listings on a Sky box.   You can on practically any other box,  but you would of course then be without Sky 1 etc,  ch 4, ch 5 etc.  A supermarket box will probably show all the BBC and ITV regions automatically and you could re-order them however you like.

As far as I know an old Canalsatellite box and card will not get the "terrestrial" channels via Astra 1.   I think the card is de-activated completely.  And because the public funded channels are encrypted on Astra 1 then without the card you won't get them.   Actually I'm surprised you've got one as Canalsatellite prefer you to rent them (at least that's what I thought).

Sorry I've answered your question rather than Clare!

[/quote]

OK, if I cancel my Sky subscription will I get channels 4 and 5 if I leave my Sky card in the Sky box? I use a Philips Pronto remote for TV and other things so I can program that up with icons it's just that ere in doors likes to 'tab' through the channels and I was looking to make it easier for her. I don't know why she can't just tap on the channel the same as me but there you go.

I don't have any other box's at present but I was looking through Ebay France and people do sell Canal+ box's second hand or in one case a complete kit in a box brand new. I have also seen new ones in box's for sale in DIY shops.

It's just that I would like to watch French TV as well but with this mountain in the way I get 3 channels with bad quality and one which you can only watch depending on the weather and then it's so bad it's in black and white (just). Would TNT (French terestrial digital) make a difference, they are for sale locally so I assume they work in pur area although I would ask for a 'try before you buy', no point in buying one if it won't work!

As a side issue does anyone know if there is any plan to transmit channels 4 and 5 uncoded like ITV and BBC in the future?

[Martin963]

OK, if I cancel my Sky subscription will I get channels 4 and 5 if I leave my Sky card in the Sky box?

YES, the card will go on getting ch4 and 5 if you cancel.  Only until the next generation of cards though.

I agree with your other half;  the Sky box leaves a lot to be desired in certain functions.

I'd be very careful of buying French boxes on ebay.  

We have the same problems with UHF TV reception in 24.  Sadly unless you get a good to excellent picture on analogue UHF at the moment TNT will not help;  the powers used are considerably lower and whilst they largely match the current analogue service areas they certainly don't exceed them.

Might be worth checking that you are using the most suitable transmitter.  Check with a nieghbour,  are they using a main station or a local relay.   Could yours be an old installation on a main station where in fact there is a newer relay much nearer?

Ch 4 are reported to be spitting blood over the encryption business as they are locked into a contract with Sky for another couple of years.   They (like many others) thought at the outset of digital satellite that the rights people would prevent FTA broadcasting.   The BBC (and good for them) bust through this myth and ITV followed;  (this is a slight simplification,  they had to wait for Astra 2D to arrive as well).   Now ch 4 are paying a lot for pointless encryption.   Ch 5 may be different - I think Sky have bought a stake in them so they may well never now go FTA.

[Quillan]

OK if you bear with me here is my plan. I keep the Sky box and cancel my subscription (the reason incidently is because no longer need a UK bank account). I will continue to get ALL the terestrial UK TV and radio stations plus a load of free junk ones. That is until such time as Sky renew their cards. I rather suspect however I will be able to buy a FTV card in the UK after all the problems the last time they did this.

Now what to do about my French TV? My arial appears to be pointing in the same direction as everyone elses, sort of north and upwards at a strange angle. Everyone round here also has a dish so those like me have obviously used that for their 'normal' TV. I don't want Canal+,just the 'normal' terestrial programs that everyone else gets with a TV arial. So if I get a French digital box from the DIY shop and another dish and LNB I can get all these 'normal' channels?

Does this make sence, have I understood everything correctly?

[Martin963]

Yes to the first bit - you may lose TalkSport Radio.  Tant mieux perhaps.   Obviously - don't phone Sky from France.

Upwards at a strange angle suggests a relay high up (the main stations if you are any distance away appear to be horizontal as far as inclination is concerned).  So probably you can't do much there.

So to satellite.  If you just want TV5 do what Clare suggests and use a double headed LNB on your existing dish.   Might require a lot of tweaking,  and as I say the "monoblocs" you see in supermarkets are AFAIK all 6 deg ones,  ie Hotbird/Astra1,  not Astra2/Astra1.  So be careful.    You COULD (although it's clumsy) even use your Sky box for that (ie used on the LNB pointing at Astra 1), although I wouldn't recommend it for a permanent set up.

If you want the publically funded networks then - at the moment - they are digitally FTA on 5 deg west,  Atlantic Bird 3.   There is no guarantee that this will continue,  as I have explained in other threads.   That lot does NOT include TF1 and M6 which are transmitted but in a non-standard (Newtech) format.    And you can't use a Sky box for this,  the symbol rate is an odd one and not within the ambit of a digibox.

A cheap alternative solution is to use AB3 but with an ANALOGUE sat receiver.   This gets you TF1/FR2/3/5/M6.   The only drawback is that if you have a UK sourced PAL only TV it will display in black and white.   A French TV is fine.   I suspect that's what your most of neighours are doing. 

I'm sorry it is no simpler.   If Canalsat and TPS weren't so greedy about encrypting channels that are publically or commercially funded you could use Astra 1 and Hotbird.   If the CSA got its act together and laid down a few ground rules about TNT coverage outside the present and future UHF service areas that would help too. 

[Chrisdubna]

"If you swap your Sky dish for  a French dish, you'll loose C4 and Five."

NO, reception is not dependant upon the DISH you use and most dishes sold in France have a universal LNB which will happily receive almost anything out there including all the channels you normally get in the UK.  I have installed many French dishes without problem.  However, and I think this is what was meant, if you also use a French Receiver insteal of a Sky digibox then there are restrictions on what you will receive and if you don't point the dish at the Sky sats - well you won't receive the Sky broadcast channels.

CHRIS

[Clair]

[quote user="Chrisdubna"]

"If you swap your Sky dish for  a French dish, you'll loose C4 and Five."

NO, reception is not dependant upon the DISH you use and most dishes sold in France have a universal LNB which will happily receive almost anything out there including all the channels you normally get in the UK.  I have installed many French dishes without problem.  However, and I think this is what was meant, if you also use a French Receiver insteal of a Sky digibox then there are restrictions on what you will receive and if you don't point the dish at the Sky sats - well you won't receive the Sky broadcast channels.

CHRIS

[/quote]

Chris

If you read on from that post, you'll see I have already apologised to Quillan for the error...

[Cicero]

We have finally arrived in France from California and thought we would like TV. We had the local television guy install a dish and an aerial. The French programmes come in great, but the dish will only let us have ITV 1-4, which is alright but we were rather hoping for BBC. He tried for hours but couldn't get it. He went back to the shop and couldn't get it there either. So now after spending a fortune we can't get  BBC TV or radio. Any ideas what he did wrong. If I find out I can tell him. Might even get a refund. We do get some other channels like the Travel channel and the shopping channel, but nothing good.This is all new to us, we are used to cable and a man comes with a box sets it up and we get loads of channels.[*-)]

Kris

[Anton Redman]

Good news and bad news. The dish is pointing in the right direction and at the right satellite cluster. There are two things that may still be wrong.

 

1. The Dish may not be perfectly aligned

 

The skew = how much you turn the LNB in its housing may not been set at all. As the normal satellites used in France are set at about vertical.  This is I think less likely but if the notes below do no cure the problem it is worth looking.

 

2. Not all the frequencies may have been set up in the digital receiver. Print out all 13 pages of the link posted below and check it there is a pattern. You will not be able to pick up/decode anything that has ‘Videoguard’ in column 5

  

http://www.lyngsat.com/28east.html

 

If it turns out you are simply missing frequencies then show printout of the lyngsat pages to the technician who installed your dish and see if it gives him or her any clues. Because SKY used a special digital receiver which is ‘slugged’ to make it of very little use for main stream European digital TV it is unlikely the technician has ever set up a dish and receiver for SKY before.

 

Alternatively if you are feeling brave or have a bright 7 year old child handy. These were the French instructions, followed by my bad translation, for adding channels to the very cheap ( Euros 68 including dish) receiver which I purchased. ( so that I had a backup for our digibox and a way of recordings one programme and watching another. )

 

<<Programmation du récepteur numérique   ( Partie réserve aux utilisateurs avances )

 

Bien que le récepteur soit livre pre programme, vous pouvez avoir besoin de programmer de nouvelles chaînes ou de reprogrammer un canal dont les paramètres ont change.

 

Pour mémoriser de nouvelles chaînes reportez-vous aux paramètres contenus dans la presse spécialiste. En plus de la fréquence, des information sur la polarisation ( vertical ou horizontal) et la débit symbole utilise y figurent

 

Vous devrez pur obtenir de nouvelles chaînes soit entrée du canal correspondant ; soit effectuer une nouvelle recherche. >>

 

“ Programming The Digital Receiver  (Reserved for advanced users)

 

Although the receiver is delivered pre programmed , you may need to program new chains or re programme  a channel whose parameters have been changed  changed.

 

To memorize new chains input the parameters contained in the specialist press ( or check the Internet if you are in the 21^st Century) . In addition to the frequency, information one the polarization (vertical or horizontal) and the symbol flow figure used is needed.

 

To find the new channels on a transponder the digital receiver must then make a new search. “

 

 

It might help if you also posted roughly where in France you are Department or nearest big town and the exact make and model of your digital receiver. 

 

 

 

[Cicero]

Anton,

Thanks for the reply, I will access the link and try and printout pages. I am waiting for my desktop computer and printer to arrive.I also have the problem of not being able to print when I have the ADSL using the usb port. All this stuff is new to us and we lack the know how to solve the problems.

We are in Dept. 22 near to Guingamp and St Brieuc, in St Nicolas du Pelem.The box is a Tonna SD 500.

Thanks again for the help.

Kris

[Anton Redman]

From your comments about French channels are you using a motorised disk ?  If so can you use the menu on your sat remote control to check signal quality when dish is switched to ITV ? 

At you location in Northen France dish size and signal strength and quality should not be an issue.

[Cicero]

No we have a fixed dish, and I have tried plugging in different frequencies and lost some of the channels we did get. so I put it back to the original. I have no idea what I am doing so didn't want to ruin the whole set up. When I run the automatic search it skips the BBC frequencies. I have tried just searching FTA and also ALL. It is getting somewhat frustrating. It seems that the signal isn't strong enough, although other people in the village have BBC without having spent an arm and a leg on getting a technician to put up the dish. If I could manually put in the frequencies it might help but that is beyond my understanding.

Kris

 

[fulcrum]

[quote user="Martinwatkins"]

5 deg west,  where the public channels are free digitally (for the moment) and TF1 and M6 are free in analogue SECAM. 

[/quote]

Martin

I have an analog box pointing at 5 deg west and receive all the French channels 1 through 6 in analogue.

Are you saying that the channels except TF1 and M6 are also available in digital from the same direction (5W)?

[Robbie34]

It isn't always possible with some receivers to do an automatic search and get every channel that you need.  You will have to do a manual search and input the details of those transponders that you want.  Most digital receivers are manufactured in the far east,  usually Korea, and rebadged, and have a choice of language.  Go to "installation" in the menu and set it for English.  You will then need to do a "manual search" or an "advanced search."  This depends on the receiver.  The chances are that not all of the transponders for Astra 2D have not been entered in your digibox  so you will have to enter them yourself.   For example, ITV 2, ITV 4 and a number of other regional ITV 1 channels are on transponder 44 that has the following parameters: Frequency 10758 Mhz,; Polarity V; SR (Symbol Rate) 2200;  FEC (Forward Error Correction) 5/6.  Input these details to your receiver and then press "search", and your box will scan the transponder and put the channels into its memory.  You may be asked to "save" the channels.  I can't be more explicit as I have no knowledge of your receiver.  However, by spending a little time with the various menus should get you to understand how to operate your receiver.

The parameters of all of the available channels on Astra 2 are here. http://www.lyngsat.com/packages/skyuk.html

[Martin963]

@ fulcrum

Yes I am. 

Try 11.591 GHz vertical pol SR 20000 FEC 2/3

http://www.lyngsat.com/ab3.html

Bon chance.

[Anton Redman]

If the receiver searches the same way mine did they it only searches for the frequencies it has been told exist. When it searches it only checks the frequencies which are in it memory.  I had a very hard time persuading my very cheap digital receiver to find the French channels at 5 degrees west.  

The next thing I would do is ask to borrow a digbox from one of your Brittish neighbours and see which channels it will pick up from your dish. If it gets BBC then you know the problem is programing your digital receiver. If it does not get BBC then it is dish alignment will probably turn out to be skew.

[Cicero]

Thanks for all the help. I will try and put in the channels manually, or get the tech to do it.

Kris

[sturrdave]

I`ve joined this thread rather late, but looking at Cicero`s original post I get the impression that he just requested the local TV dealer to install an aerial and dish, a digital receiver, and a TV.  If so, the dish is almost certainly pointed at 19.2 degrees E, the usual source for French TV channels.

It seems to me that no amount of re-booting/retuning etc., is going to have any effect, as the BBC channels are transmitted from 28.2 degrees E, whereas the installer will have aimed the dish at 19.2 degrees E, where most of the French TV channels are!

Surely what`s required is either another dish aimed at the correct satellite, or a second,  offset LNB on the original dish, to pick up the signal from 28.2 degrees E..  I don`t know whether a second LNB can cope with a signal 9 degrees away from the original setting of the dish, but maybe if the dish is realigned slightly to around 23 or 24 degrees E ? ? ?

[Robbie34]

[quote user="sturrdave"]

I`ve joined this thread rather late, but looking at Cicero`s original post I get the impression that he just requested the local TV dealer to install an aerial and dish, a digital receiver, and a TV.  If so, the dish is almost certainly pointed at 19.2 degrees E, the usual source for French TV channels.

It seems to me that no amount of re-booting/retuning etc., is going to have any effect, as the BBC channels are transmitted from 28.2 degrees E, whereas the installer will have aimed the dish at 19.2 degrees E, where most of the French TV channels are!

Surely what`s required is either another dish aimed at the correct satellite, or a second,  offset LNB on the original dish, to pick up the signal from 28.2 degrees E..  I don`t know whether a second LNB can cope with a signal 9 degrees away from the original setting of the dish, but maybe if the dish is realigned slightly to around 23 or 24 degrees E ? ? ?

[/quote]

He is getting the four ITV channels, but is unable to get the BBC line up.  That indicates Astra 2, as ITV is not transmitted from Astra 1.

The problem is that his receiver does not have the BBC frequencies in its memory so he will have to enter them manually.