Television Tuner Convertors

[SMT]

We have a Panasonic Plasma television that does not have a Secam tuner. We would like to take the television to France with us when we move early next year. I have already contacted Panasonic U.K. to ask if there is anything available to do the necessary conversion. Their answer was...

"To clarify, to obtain full operation from your television in France, it will be necessary to have it converted. Panasonic do not, themselves, carry out such conversion but there may be companies listed on the web who can assist."

I have searched the web but am not sure I am looking at the right types of products. Does anyone else have any experience of this type of conversion?

Thanks - Simon & Ruby

 

 

[Anton Redman]

Either a TNT ( Televisiion Terrestrail Numerique / Equivalent of UK Freeview but check coverage before you buy) or a dish and decoder connected via a SCART / Peritel. will do the job will do the job for a lot less money /lower risk.  Ironically cheap and cheerful supermarket specials are often SECAM compatiable. B & O wanted £ 1200 for the card to convert one of their models when we were looking for a dual standard TV 8 years ago ( we did not buy eiher the card or the TV ).

[Nick Trollope]

Anton is spot on. Don't waste your money on anything SECAM - ie. analogue as, just as in the UK, the analogue TV signal will be switched off.

Be aware that your SCART socket will not accept a SECAM video signal (for the same reason the tuner won't), so make sure you go for a digital TV or satellite solution.

[Tim]

Good replies from the other guys - if I might add another thought - I also have a couple of TVs bought in the UK with inbuilt digital tuners and they do work ok here in France as I am just about in range of a digitally equipped TV transmitter  - but if your area is not yet covered, then another way for you to get your TV to work on French terrestrial TV is via the tuner in a DVD or perhaps video recorder. I came over here with a couple of Sony DVD recorders - these came as standard with 'multi-standard tuners' and I was able to change them over to work on Secam for the analogue TV channels. I was able to feed their output, via the scart leads, to the TV.

Just another option to consider, depending on your area and circumstances.

Tim

[Martin963]

The OP doesn't actually say whether they're planning to watch TV from Britain (via satellite) or want (very sensibly to keep the languauge skills up) to watch "native" TV.

If you only want TV from Britain then you don't have to do anything - a Sky (or other) digital satellite box continues to work fine with your UK plasma set.

For French TV Timco's solution is best; if you ARE within range of a TNT transmitter (you'll need a good roof aerial in most areas) then your plasma will be fine to view French TV via  a French or UK DTT box (unless the latter is one of the old OnDigital boxes).   If you're not in this happy situation then a DVD recorder (BOUGHT IN FRANCE,  to guarantee that it will convert system L SECAM from your aerial picking up analogue to baseband PAL or composite) will do the job,  or go out and buy a stand-alone cheap and cheerful cathode ray tube TV (again,  IN FRANCE) which will tune system L SECAM direct, and keep that as your TV just for watching French TV.

And marvel at how good CRT's are in comparison with plasmas.

Mind you,  make sure you keep that plasma upright for the whole of your journey though!   Bon courage.

Not that I've added anything really to what our other experts have already told you.

An afterthought - funny that Panasonic don't want anything to do with SECAM.  I have three Panasonic DVD recorders (all excellent,  far better than the Philips rubbish on offer) and none of them recognise a SECAM signal.  That said,  I've never seen a Panasonic DVD recorder on sale in France,  so perhaps that's the reason.    Whereas my Philips,  for all its many faults,  converts SECAM to PAL faultlessly,  far better than a similar priced transcoder box.

[Pierre ZFP]

Saw a TNT converter box at the weekend that takes digital signals from the aerial (ie NOT sat dish) and outputs via a SCART socket to the tele. cost?  39 euros, a bargain.  What I couldn't understand was that they were being sold in an area which has no chance of receiving a strong enough signal - maybe they're wondering why they don't sell many or have lots of returns .......

[Martin963]

Was it in Luxembourg Pierre?   I ask as one sees reports of increasing numbers of French coming over to the Grand Duchy to pick up bargains (including petrol).   The NE section of France is about to have a big TNT switch on (they've finally got the Germans to clear the necessary channels,  in exchange for the French doing similar) so there would be scope for selling a few boxes I imagine.

The switch on may have already happened,  but includes Mulhouse Belverdere,  Metz Luttange,  both of which are very important transmitters.  Mulhouse was testing last time I checked for info.

[Pierre ZFP]

Yes it was in Lux,  Batiself to be precise but I also saw the exact same box at Castorama at Thionville (near Metz) so easily in range of the Luttange transmitter I assume.

Didn't think about the German connection but that makes sense as Germany is very big on TNT.  Can't see that many French wanting to watch German TV though as to my surprise German isn't widely spoken on the French side of the border and vice-versa.

 

[Deimos]

When I moved here I checked the instructions for my quite "high-end" Sony TV (tube not LCD/Plasma thing) - and they listed that it decoded SECAM.  But it did not.  I believe there are actually two versions of SECAM (?) one used in France and one elsewhere4.  Thus my TV either only does the wrong sort or just does not work (or the instructions lied).  But I purchased it before thinking about moving to France so "thats life".

If I'm wrong about the different types of SECAM then please do correct me - I am no expert and this is just what I have picked-up

Ian

[Martin963]

Without trying it I can't say for certain,  but I suspect your Sony WOULD decode Secam correctly if it was fed in as a base-band signal via the Scart socket.   So I would guess that if you got a French video recorder and tuned that in to your local analogue TV transmitter and then fed the VCR's output via scart to your Sony you would get a colour picture.

But if (and I'm again guessing) you merely plugged your roof aerial into your Sony then it would not pick up the French analogue signals because they are system L as well as carrying Secam colour.

I don't want to bore you,  but system L (used in France) differs in almost all respects from the other European TV systems apart from having the same number of lines.  The most important difference is that the modulation of the TV signal onto the carrier is +ve,  which means that the line and frame sync pulses are the wrong way up for non French sets and therefore are ignored - that's why you get a complete mess on the screen if you manage to get the channels tuned in,  as well as any fleeting images being black/white reversed.  In addition the sound is transmitted with AM not FM,  and with a different offset from the picture.

And that's before you get to the SECAM colour problem...

As I say,  I'm only guessing about your Sony,  but the SECAM issue is different to the system L problems,  and some sets will recognise SECAM but not recognise system L,  which is pretty unique to France,  whereas SECAM is used elsewhere,  particularly with systems D and K.

[Deimos]

[quote user="Martinwatkins"]Without trying it I can't say for certain,  but I suspect your Sony WOULD decode Secam correctly if it was fed in as a base-band signal via the Scart socket. ...

[/quote]

I never actually tried it. I only ever

plugged it into the roof ariel, never got a French VCR/decoder so

never tried it on the SCART. I quickly purchased a French TV for the

terrestrial channels. But then I found them "not to my taste"

so put the better Sony back and moved the French TV upstairs - and

watch UK TV when I watch anything.

Ian

[Martin963]

Fair enough...

I shall be sad to see the end of SECAM - we'll have much less to talk about!

[Pierre ZFP]

That's OK, you'll be able to point to your tele and say 'It's a real PAL'  [:D]

At least we don't have NTSC to contend with like in the USA.  That is truly awful!

With PAL and SECAM, fluctuations in signal strength are dealt with as differences in luminosity which the eye doesn't notice much.  With NTSC it's converted to the chroma and the eye is very good at noticing differences in colour.  Not for nothing is it known as 'Never Twice the Same Colour'

 

[Gyn_Paul]

Oh let's go round the loop and have the full lot again. Just for old time's sake.

NTSC : Never Twice the Same Color

Pal : Pale And Lurid

SECAM : Something Essentially Contrary to the American Method (although in French it would probably be something like : QECaMA)

Sorry to be a pedant, Pierre ZFP, but I think the colour changes in an NTSC picture, which necessitate altering the hue (tint) control all the time, are more the result of phase errors: typically from the composite signal derrived from multiple signal paths. Given that many big US cities are built on a grid system - the structure of which would tend to encourage ghosting and multiple signal paths -  this is NTSC's fatal flaw. However, when you consider it was engineered in the later 40's/early 50's it's not bad!

And PAL reception errors cause changes in colour saturation because the phase errors on subsequent lines either side of the reference are added together and cancel each other out: the greater the error, the smaller the colour signal.

Or something like that.... Martin and Anton know all about it, but having explained it, they'd probably have to kill you. [:)]

Isn't the SECAM-L signal, being FM, supposed to be more robust over long distances? 

p

[Martin963]

Certainly I agree that it's the colour saturation that goes with PAL when the signal is weak.

It's not my speciality,  but we were always told that PAL was better in weak signal areas than SECAM.   Certainly in 24 where we are in a valley and the wrong side of a 350 m hill the UHF colour signals from Les Cars are very variable,  and when especially weak (just before the colour decoder switches off) we are plagued by red horizontal dashes (rather than multi-coloured snow) which is subjectively more irritating than the PAL equivalent would be,  as they actually "hide" the desired picture to a certain extent.

I've read that where SECAM scores is under really ideal conditions,  where the strobing effects caused by sub-carrier beating with HF luminance components are largely eliminated,  so those jackets and ties the weather men in the UK used to wear would have been more faithfully reproduced.

With the advent of good comb filters in PAL systems and general receiver design improvements for both systems there's little to choose between them as colour coding transmission systems,  but of course SECAM is unuseable in a TV studio,  hence everything in France is made in component colour or possibly composite PAL and then converted to SECAM just before distribution to the transmitter network.

I've always felt that the SECAM pics on AB3 analogue seem brighter and more vibrant than anything on PAL Astra 19 analogue,  but whether that's down to the colour system or something else (such as poorer quality links from German studios to uplink centres) I don't know.  As the AB3 analogue signals are used as stand by emergency feeds for the main tx network they'd make sure they were top notch in quality,  maybe that's why they seem better than German analogue.

[Pierre ZFP]

G-P and Martin W

I bow to your superiour knowledge  [:D]

I am not worthy...........

Interesting stuff though!

[Tim]

Absolutely!!!! - what Pierre said.

Tim

[Anton Redman]

Link below has more than I will ever want to know about TV standards and an understandable comparison of PAL and SECAM

http://www.videointerchange.com/pal_secam_conversions.htm